Winchester 1886 advice?

[Wolfsburg]

Hello, gentlemen! I can't believe I haven't stumbled across this site before now!

Anyway, an 1886 will be going up on the auction block locally in a few weeks and I've been looking for information on these rifles, as I'm potentially interested. The condition is described as being "excellent" and it is chambered in the .40-82 cartridge. I looked up the serial number (in the 30,000 range) and think it was manufactured in 1889. I don't think they really know much about guns so I'm a little leery of the "excellent" descriptor and there is only one picture of it available online, however it doesn't look terrible to my eye. The pic isn't the best so it is hard for me to tell for sure whether or not it has been refinished.

For those of you more experienced with these rifles, what should I look for in evaluating it? What kind of $$$ do they typically bring? I imagine there are probably a lot of variables involved in determining valuation but what is a ballpark range between shooter and collectible? I know Winchesters, especially from this era, are incredibly popular so I'd be surprised if I go home with this one, but I'd at least like to be prepared.

Here's the only pic I have:



To me, the metal looks like it might be okay, but the shine of the stock concerns me a little though it doesn't look to be a total disaster. I can't tell if the (round, not octagonal?) barrel is missing bluing or if that is just a glare I'm seeing.

[KirkD]

From that photo, it is impossible to give a value, so here goes a range of values. If it is all-original and never been messed with in any way and is in as good of shape as it appears to be in the photo, then I'd say the low end would be around $2,500. If it still had a lot of blue and some case color showing, then it will be quite a bit more than that, at least $5,000. Having said that, I'm up in Canada and getting rusty on '86 values in the USA, so I'm sure more current fellows can give you a better range of values.

[.45colt]

With that picture it's anyones guess.

[Wolfsburg]

Yeah, the single picture leaves a lot to be desired. If the bottom end for that rifle, assuming it is an undickered with piece, is $2500 I'm probably just kidding myself. Would it be safe to say that if the rifle in the picture was in good operating condition, but refinished, I'd still be doing well to get it for $1000 or less? I've heard these rifles were sometimes rechambered for more readily available calibers, but what are the hallmarks of such a change?

[Old Time Hunter]

If you can get that rifle for $1000 or less, let me know where it is as I'll snap it up.

[Wolfsburg]

Haha, I'm not holding my breath! I knew Winchesters of this era were popular, but until I've started researching this rifle, I had no clue how expensive some can get. I guess my only hope is that no one shows up, or at least no Winchester people!

[Sixgun]

[quote="Wolfsburg/] I guess my only hope is that no one shows up, or at least no Winchester people![/quote]

If that auction is in Pa. next week--well, I'll be there. There's 40 Winchesters going off, along with military 1911's, Colt Lightnings, Parker doubles, Hi-Walls............all kinds of neat quality stuff ------------Nope! I ain't tellin' where ---------(I ain't even gonna write my name )

[Wolfsburg]

Haha, thankfully that is not the one. Best of luck to you!

[KirkD]

Sixgun, that Marlin in your new avatar sure looks nice. Is it original CC?

[Mike D.]

Like everyone else has advised you, the photo isn't clear enough to really determine the rifle's condition. Round barrel 1886s , for some reason, don't have the "appeal" of the octagon ones. Regardless, condition is everything. The gun does have an antique serial number, so it falls into the "collectable" range that purists desire. One thing that need clarification is the rifle's caliber. Despite what some "experts" will tell you, the .40-82 is most definitely NOT a rare caliber. In fact, it one of the most often seen calibers for the Model 1886, with some 29,700 of them produced between 1886 and 1911, when it was dropped from the lineup. You'll just have to hope that no other collector shows up at the auction and decides to scoop that rifle up. Good luck, Wolfsburg, I hope you score it for under a G.

[KirkD]

If you can win it at auction for less than $1,000 you will be getting a good deal no matter what. Let us know what it ends up going for.

[Sixgun]

Sixgun, that Marlin in your new avatar sure looks nice. Is it original CC?

(sorry 'bout a slight steal of the thread)
Kirk,
Its the 1893 takedown in 38-55 that I had recased by Doug Turnbull. The rest of the gun was 95% but the coloring was gone. Yea, well, its not the usual thing that I do, but this rifle warranted it. It shoots into 1 and 1/2" @100 ---Sixgun

[KirkD]

Nice! (I too, apologize for the thread steal)

[Wolfsburg]

Simply beautiful, sixgun! I don't consider it a thread "steal" at all! I never shy away from the opportunity to ogle at pics of gorgeous guns.

Anyway, thanks for the well wishes. As I said, I think I'm probably just kidding myself unless I get very lucky. Other than having a healthy respect for vintage Winchester lever-guns, I know next to nothing about the 1886s and had no idea they commanded the prices they do. I'll certainly let you all know what the end results are.

[Sixgun]

Anyway, thanks for the well wishes. As I said, I think I'm probably just kidding myself unless I get very lucky. Other than having a healthy respect for vintage Winchester lever-guns, I know next to nothing about the 1886s and had no idea they commanded the prices they do. I'll certainly let you all know what the end results are.

Wolsburg,
Thank you. And.............just a bit of advice from an old head Winchester & Colt dude. -------1886's are becoming more scarce by the day. They are, without a doubt, the fastest rising investment/popularity model in existence.

Even though the economy is slow, 1886's are rising about 4X than any CD out there, so......................

Do not be afraid to spend a little extra. There was only 160,000 1886's made and probably half of those are spread to other countries, burned up, lost, etc. DO YOUR HOMEWORK and KNOW what you are buying even is you have to make 50 phone calls and buy some books. Little things wrong with the rifle can be straightened out. Even a reblued one should not be passed up.

Don't concern yourself of what "others" may think about your purchase or what you paid for it. Even if you paid several hundred more than it was worth, it will be a bargain in three years.
--------------Sixgun

[Mike D.]

Jack, you are "keeling" me. My hopes and dreams are dashed on the rocks of despair and empty wallets. I can't even afford junker 1886s these days, so I'll have to be satisfied with the few already here.

[Sixgun]

Jack, you are "keeling" me. My hopes and dreams are dashed on the rocks of despair and empty wallets. I can't even afford junker 1886s these days, so I'll have to be satisfied with the few already here.

Mike,
You and I both! I used to buy and sell 3-6 1886's a year so I could upgrade. Can't touch 'em anymore and I bet I see several hundred a year for sale. Seems like everyone is "1886 smart" and the cash outlay needed to buy sucks up the play money.

1895's have gone the same way.

I'm only occasionally lucky with the pre-1920 1894's and a smattering of 1892's. When I say "occasionally", maybe once or twice a year.

Back in the 70's, 1886's were as common as flatband 94's are today---(you knew that )

[Mike D.]

Wellll, all may not be lost. I have found a rifle that really has "wound my clock", but I hav'ta justify the 5K asking. I KNOW the gun is worth it, and in a few years it won't be touchable, yet hesitation, or maybe the old procrastination bug has taken over. I know the old saying about hesitating and losing, yet....

[Larry O]

FWIW:
At the Kalispell, Montana Gun Show yesterday, I saw a really nice '86 that had been refinished and restocked in .33WCF for $2500.00. There were several there that were in the 7-8000 price range also but, afterall, this is sort of '86 country these were all 40-82' by the way. I got three of them myself. One is a .33 takedown and after seeing that redone .33, I told my son that at least I know what mine is worth now huh!

[Wolfsburg]

For me, it's just a matter of economics. I would be more than willing to pay what it was worth (if not a little more), but I simply couldn't afford it. With the prices I'm seeing, it'll be pure luck if I come home with it. I was thinking in terms of hundreds of dollars, not thousands. Still, you can't win the lotto if you don't play...

[71fan]

There are still '86s around for under a grand, but not too many and the condition will be poor. I think even a halfway decent reblue / refinish of an octagon barrel antique would will fetch $1,500, if all else is original and the wood isn't too far gone.

The deals are found when the following are present, which kill collector value but have little effect on shootability:
cut barrel
non-original butt plate or pad
D&T'd for receiver sight or scope

Case in point, I recently bought an antique 45-70 with all of these "features" at an auction with a hammer price of $750. With buyer's premium and shipping it still came in well under a grand. It wears a nice vintage Redfield 102 and has an excellent bore in a (now) handy 21" barrel. I bought it for exactly what it was - an antique shooter in a GREAT classic platform. (Note: it just so happened to have left the factory as an ultra-rare 25" rifle (one of five ever made!) with a myriad of special order features, so now I'm compelled to restore it, but that's not the point. Nobody bidding on it knew that, including me, and it went very cheap.)

Also, as a side note, a ho-hum standard solid frame 33 wcf in original condition can be had these days for the low- to mid-teens (at live auctions). Moving up a notch in, I got a takedown 33 wcf in 80% condition in a November auction for $1,800 hammer price.

So yes...an original condition full mag octagon barrel crescent butt rifle in a classic BP caliber will command $2,500 minimum. But there are a lot of options for an "entry level" 1886.

[Wolfsburg]

Thanks for the information. What's the best way to tell that a barrel has been cut?

[71fan]

If it's an octagon barrel or a standard weight round barrel, anything less than 26" would be suspected on having been cut. Lightweight 45-70s under 22" are suspicious, and lightweight 33 wcf under 24" are suspicious. If you fine a barrel shorter than these you should take a good look at the dovetail locations, magazine rings, magazine appearance, etc.

Also, the barrel length should measure within 1/4 inch of an even number, breech to muzzle.

Of course there are many special order rifles out there that are exceptions to these rules, but this will cover the vast majority of any 1886 you look at.

Finally, the absolute easiest way to tell on an 1886 is to post the serial number on the "Winchestercollectors.org" forum and have one of the members look up the rifle and determine what the barrel was when the rifle left the factory. There is a small block of serial numbers at the end of production with blank records, but for the most part the '86 records are complete which makes collecting them all the better.

Feel free to PM me if you ever have any specific questions. I'm more than happy to help.
Good luck!

[Wolfsburg]

I certainly will and thanks so much for the help you've given me!

[missionary5155]

Good morning WOFSBURG and Welcome !
Buying a 1886 is like buying a house used to be. If you have to ask the price you really cannot afford it... so I will be happy to shoot my old 94´s and 92´s... I did buy a couple of those jap 86´s back when they were affordable...
About the only 86 that looks near my financial status are refinished and smothbore cut off short with only half the wood still splintered on.

[Mike D.]

The serial numbers for the 1886 that can be researched are 1-156599. Not available are 135125-135144 & 146000-150799.

[pdawg.shooter]

A 1886 in 50-110 sold at auction in Larned Ks. a few weeks ago for $28,000.00. No, that is not a typo, twenty eight thousand!

[KirkD]

50-110's have an extra high collectors value, but at that price, I'm guessing that it was in at least 90% condition.

[Kansas Ed]

What Kirk said before...several years back I paid IIRC $2400 for my 1886 in 40-82. And I'm happy as punch I got it for that then. It was an honest rifle with a good bore. No detractions...like refinished wood extra holes or mods. It shoots like a house afire. Good '86's are getting hard to find, and while the 40-82 was a common caliber, they are starting to see a resurgence in the market as Winchester Shooters are finding components more readily available than 20 years ago.

Ed

[Wolfsburg]

Good morning WOFSBURG and Welcome !
Buying a 1886 is like buying a house used to be. If you have to ask the price you really cannot afford it...

Haha! I'm afraid you're right! I'm simply amazed at how pricey some of these can get! $28,000? Wow!

[claybob86]

That would be a far more solid investment of $28K than the same amount on a car would be.

[Mike D.]

Cabela's has been "offering" an uber rare late 1910s lightweight .50 EX at $25K for quite some time. A very nice condition little '86 that has been "marked down" from $39K. Still too high, otherwise it would be gone. Had it been a "antique" serial numbered gun, it would've sold long ago. I much prefer the later guns, though.

[Wolfsburg]

Well, the auction was today. The rifle appeared absolutely beautiful and sold for $1300, but not to me unfortunately. I simply couldn't afford to go over $1000 but I could've wept. I hope it went to a good home!

[KirkD]

Thanks for the update. If it was absolutely beautiful, then it was either one of those rare, 95% condition rifles, or it was restored. If it was in 95% original condition, then it would be worth many thousands more than $1,300. If it was restored, and well done, it would still be worth more than $1,300. Wish I was at that auction.

[Wolfsburg]

Well, I'm no expert but the metal finish looked like it could've been original or perhaps an old refinish, at worst. To me, it didn't look like something that had been done anytime recently. The receiver appeared to be case hardened and the barrel and magazine tube were blued, as I recall. The metal finish was nice (90-95%, I'd say), but it seemed to have age and an honest patina to it. For it's age, the stock still looked a little too shiny to my eye (polyurethaned?), but it was still nice and I wouldn't have been ashamed to own it. The rifle was certainly a looker, regardless.

I almost wish it had gone for $3000 so I can stop thinking about what could've been. If only I had scraped up a little more spending money. I knew I would've been very lucky to have gotten it, but to have sold so close to my budgetary limit makes it all the worse. Then again, who knows how high the other bidder would've taken it.