Yes another Marlin Jam question ..................

Harrington-Cook · Post by **Harrington-Cook** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:45 am

Hi All,

Newby here from the UK.

Now I know there have been a few posts about the 'Marlin Jam' & there is a bunch of comments like "Internet Hype" & "doesn't happen to me/my gun which I've owned for XXX years etc."

The fact is that I own 2 Marlins 1 x 38/357 19894 Cowboy & 1 x 44 1894 Cowboy & my parents both shoot Marlins - 1 x 38/357 1894 Cowboy & a 38/357 1894C.

ALL of our 38/357s have had the 'Marlin Jam' at some point (the 44 is brand new with only a couple of hundred round thru it - so no comment as yet.) As Marlin won't deal with the public here in the UK - I usually just buy new carriers (twice the cost in the UK by the way !) - fitted them myself made the mod to the lever that Marauder suggests & no further problems.

UNTIL ........... my 357 Cowboy that has just had a new carrier fitted - has started jamming again (less than 300 rounds since new carrier)

So ..... has anyone got any further advice/help/prayers ? - I love the Marlin Leverguns - but when mine jammed last shoot - it took me out of contention in a competition - when they jam its annoying enough anyway !

Also - with or without a new carrier - I CANNOT action 38 special thru it at all - can anyone tell me why OAL difference between a 38 & a 357 should make any difference ? - surely all the carrier 'sees' is the base of a shell case - so length shouldn't matter.

Thanks to anyone that managed to get thru my ramblings !!!

Regards

Roy

jbm1968 · Post by **jbm1968** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:55 am

The easiest solution is to buy a Winchester

But past that, I have 2 Marlins (which are great): a 30-30 and 45-70 and have never suffered from the Marlin Jam so I cant give you much help, Good luck!

I don't think the OAL in the 38/357 should make a difference, but I really don't know.

BTT

jbm1968 · Post by **jbm1968** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:56 am

Sorry, I should have asked; What style,weight, and shape of bullet are you using?

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:12 pm

For what it's worth, Mike Venturino who writes mostly about Old West type guns has written in a recent article in Rifle Magazine and also in his book "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West", that the pistol cartridge lever guns are especially touchy about Overall Case Length/Overall Cartridge Lengty and that if you load the round too long or too short that they will double feed or not feed at all.

Someone wrote on one of these forums that they experienced a jam with their rifle which was an Italian import. Can' remember the brand of the rifle but they said that the company wanted them to send in their rifle AND a few examples of the ammo they were using. Turns out the company said their rifles were made to cycle Winchester .357 Mag ammo only and that that was what the customer should use. If handloading, they should make sure their handloaded ammo was the exact same OAL as Winchester .357 Mag ammo.

Anyway, I think there may be something to the correct OAL for ammunition and that shooters should restrict themselves to the OAL that Marlin specifies in their Owner's Manual.

Harrington-Cook · Post by **Harrington-Cook** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:21 pm

Hi Jonathan

I have shot factory Magtec in Cowboy Action 158gn lead RNFP and also Magtec in 158gn FMJ that I class as RNF although some look more like TC.

My reloads are again 158gn lead RNFP and I have tried various manufacturers cases - Winchester/ Sellier & Bellot / Howitzer etc etc

I get the 'jam' (round on top of carrier & carrier locked fully out) at various times - no one case / head / round seems to be at fault - which is what is so annoying - if it was one particular type - I could just avoid them.

There also appears to be no link between speed of rack - or gun position - several people have put it down to racking hard & fast in competition - but I have tried all ways - again there does not seem to be a link between speed - power - gun angle ...................

When the jam comes & if I am on a practice shoot - I just slide a thin blunted screwdriver thru the loading gate & take the pressure off the stack in the mag tube - I can then raise the lever & then shoot on.
Standing on a Turning Target range with appearances of 2 secs - trying to get off several rounds - when the jam comes - you lose the target - no time to work the old screwdriver magic !!

I was fairly happy (or should I say accepting of the situation !) knowing that once I had put a new carrier in cost Â£35 - approx $70 for us here in the UK -

ouch !) that the problem was cured UNTIL the jam started happening again last weekend with the new carrier fitted.

regards

Roy

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:10 pm

Roy,

Welcome to the forum.

If you'll go to our home page { http://www.leverguns.com/ } and scroll down the column of links on the right side, you'll find a link to the section called "Marlin Resources". There are several articles in there about how to tune and tweak Marlin lever guns. And one big article on how to fix the Marlin Jam.

My Marlin has never done the "Dreaded Marlin Jam" yet, so I have nothing first hand to say about it.

Joe

Harrington-Cook · Post by **Harrington-Cook** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:25 pm

Hi Joe,

Many thanks for the reply & welcome.

I came across the Marauder webpage a while back & it was his info & indeed the fine set of takedown instructions that I have used to work on my guns.

This brings me back to my new problem - that I have the dreaded jam all over again after just a few hundred rounds.

Makes me wonder what those good ol' boys out on the range used to do when it happened !!

Thanks again & does anyone else have the problem of 38 not feeding at all in a 38/357 Marlin ??

Regards to all

Roy

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:30 pm

Roy,

Supposedly the cause of the Marlin Jam is a sharp edge that wears into the carrier very quickly. In the article I mentioned it tells how to get rid of the sharp angle and therefore prevent the wear that causes the jam.

Years ago I had a Marlin 1894CS in 357. It was picky about what bullets I used, didn't like certain SWC designs and didn't like 38s if they were loaded with SWCs. The edges of the driving band hung up on the chamber edges.

They can be picky. With jacketed or rounded shoulder bullets the one I had would feel fine. Just not SWCs.

Joe

Harrington-Cook · Post by **Harrington-Cook** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:34 pm

Hi Joe

Yes - when I replaced my carrier - I removed the sharp edge as per Marauders info. - but have now got the jam back after 300 rounds - new carrier and all.

In desperation - I have just ordered TWO new carriers (pessimist !) and a new lever too !

As I said carriers here in the UK are about 70 bucks - so add a lever to that & that is about the cost of a second hand MArlin over with you guys !!

Regards

Roy

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:16 pm

Roy,

Well, beings I'm primarily a Winchester fan I'm at a loss now. As far as the prices all I can about that is OUCH!!!

We have a member here who is a gunsmith. He specializes is cowboy action shooting guns, and they take a brutal beating. His forum name is Nate Kiowa Jones. Here is the link to his web site: http://www.stevesgunz.com/ .
You can also PM him through the forum. He might be able to help you with this situation.

Joe

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:17 pm

It might just be a tad thin where that cam is suposed to lift it a tad & block the next case. Your right OAL shouldn't matter. It can effect feeding into the chamber but shouldn't effect feeding from the tube into the reciever. It should work with an empty case since the cut off happens way before the round gets out of the tube.
It could even be the lever & if thats the case then any fileing you did on it may have made it worse. If the snail cam is small on the lever the same jam could happen I'd think. It cartainly isn't wear if the guns new.
Maybe try bending it ever so slightly so it sits a bit higher.

Harrington-Cook · Post by **Harrington-Cook** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:46 am

Hi Leverdude

Thanks for the reply - do you know - I have never considered that by taking off the sharp part of the snaill on the lever - that it was allowing the carrier to settle slightly lower - DOH ! You would think Marlin would have resolved this by now !!

I think I am going to get the old carrier & try a little of the 'bend' technique.

Here goes !

Roy

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:05 am

Leverdude wrote:It might just be a tad thin where that cam is suposed to lift it a tad & block the next case. Your right OAL shouldn't matter. It can effect feeding into the chamber but shouldn't effect feeding from the tube into the reciever.

OAL does effect feeding. If the round is loaded much below correct OAL, it will allow a second round to intrude past the cut off onto the lifter thus causing a jam.

It may be helpful for some of you guys to read Mike Venturino's "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West" (page 136 and other places in the book) and the article he wrote in Rifle Magazine -- "Shooting Pistol Cartridges in Lever Actions" where he speaks about OAL. Venturino also provides various ways to prevent jamming/feeding problems throughout his book and in the article in the magazine.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:01 pm

Welome to the fire Roy. Your post as got me jittery again, regarding buying a Marlin, as you say the factory don't want to know and spares are pricey. Every body I speak to over here say's the Marlin is foolproof and reliable but they "are" Marlin dealers! I do not want a gun that has built in faults, that Marlin should have sorted out years ago. I know if I buy a new Marlin 1894CL it will probably be fine, but if it ain't then I have an expensive problem on my hands.

I think I'll keep looking for an old Winchester.