OT? - pulling bullets

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

Back around 1977 or so I loaded a large quantity of .223 ammo as part of my "end of the world as we know it" stash. Being a less experienced reloader at the time, I didn't have any way to measure the shoulder set back, so I just resized them to where they worked through my Mini-14 & everything was fine. A few years ago I bought an AR-15 & discovered that either my Mini had a generous chamber or the AR has a tight one (or maybe both). All the ammo I had previously loaded would not function reliably in the AR, sometimes getting stuck in the chamber with the bolt just short of closing. When that happened I often had to use a rubber mallet & a block of wood against the charging handle to extract the case. Not good! I discovered that the shoulder on all those rounds needed to be set back several thousandths to take them back to factory specs. At first I hoped that I could just take the expander ball out of the sizer die & run the loaded rounds through. That worked on some, but quite a few ended up looking like a Weatherby case, with a "radiused" shoulder, so I resigned myself to having to pull all the bullets, dump the powder, and resize the case without the decapper assembly, then reassemble. Like most onerous tasks, I put if off for quite awhile, but last night I finally got going on it. I pulled about 50 rounds that were loaded with 55 gr. FMJ boat tail (military bullets). Fortunately, having learned from bitter experience, I decided to reload those & make sure everything worked before I pulled all of them. To make a long story short, the pulled bullets (pulled with a collet) would not stay in the case - turn them upside down & the bullets fall out. Took me awhile - and some blue language - before I discovered that the pulled bullets only measured about .219 on the shank between the cannelure and the edge just ahead of the start of the boat tail. Never-loaded bullets that I still had left over measure the correct .224. Other ammo that was loaded with a no-longer made Nosler 55 gr. soft-point boat tail, when pulled, showed the bullets were still measuring the correct diameter. The FMJ's have an exposed lead base, while the soft point have a jacket over the base. I'm theorizing that pulling the bullet through the case neck is allowing the lead core to be swaged toward the exposed base on the FMJ's, while the jacket on the base of the SP's is preventing this. Anybody have any thoughts on this, especially as to any way to avoid this "swaging" on the remaining bullets? The good news (if you can call it that) is that I only have about 500 rounds loaded with the FMJ's as opposed to over 3,000 with the SP's but I'd still like to salvage the rest of the FMJ's if I could. By the way, the rounds were not crimped, the bullets are just held in place by neck tension (in case anyone was going to suggest seating then deeper to break the crimp before pulling.) Brass is G.I. if that matters. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

[Rusty]

If you have an inertia bullet puller you might try that and see if it's any more friendly to the bullets.

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

I think I'd rather just write off the bullets than pull 500 rounds with an inertia puller!

[Rusty]

Do you still have the Mini-14 that you said would chamber them?

My Handi rifles have large chambers as well. I can pick up fired brass that my son has fired in his Bushmaster and it will chamber in my Handi as is.

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

Yes, I still have the Mini. I just don't want to have an ammo supply that's rifle-specific. Plus, if worst comes to worst, I may want to use some of the ammo for trade goods, and I wouldn't want someone ticked off because the ammo I traded jammed up his gun (he may have others that still work!)

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Which collet puller are you using? I ask because I've seen the RCBS version and I can see how one could tighten the collet too far and put too much squeeze on the bullet ahead of the crimp. I've been using the Hornady and find that I can pull the handle with enough tension to get a good hold without going overboard. Sometimes it slips, but then I just add a bit more pressure and try the pull again.

[O.S.O.K.]

Oh man, I would just go to the range and have fun shooting the 500 rounds.

Besides, that's not near enough for TEOTWAWKI. Everybody knows that you need more like 5000 rounds

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

I have the RCBS collet. I did have some instances where the collet slipped off the bullet. Maybe I over compensated by clamping down too hard, and I need to try to find a happy medium. But if too much tension on the collet is causing the problem, I wouldn't think it would cause a reduction in diameter on the part of the bullet inside the neck. Still, it's something to try.

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

Oh man, I would just go to the range and have fun shooting the 500 rounds.

Besides, that's not near enough for TEOTWAWKI. Everybody knows that you need more like 5000 rounds

I thought of that. But the bullets are the easiest part to replace if it comes to that. The powder & primers are harder to get right now. Would also be expensive. And the only range I have available only allows shooting at paper, and rifles must be single-loaded. Not the most fun way to run 500 rounds thru a semi.

As far as TEOTWAWKI,I agree, 500 is insufficient. But I still have the other 3,000 .223, which it seems I'll be able to resize & reload. Then there's the .308, the .30-06, the .303 Brit, the 8mm Mauser, the 7.62x54R, .45 ACP, 9mm, .38, .40 S&W, plus lesser but still respectable quantities of 00 buck and various levergun rounds.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I have the RCBS collet. I did have some instances where the collet slipped off the bullet. Maybe I over compensated by clamping down too hard, and I need to try to find a happy medium. But if too much tension on the collet is causing the problem, I wouldn't think it would cause a reduction in diameter on the part of the bullet inside the neck. Still, it's something to try.

Ah. I just re-read your post and realize you're talking about the reduction in size being from the crimp to the bullet base. I was thinking it was ahead of the crimp.

[O.S.O.K.]

Larry, just drive east a bit to Easton. There is a fine shooting club there - Easton Fish & Game Association. They will allow you to load a mag and shoot your mini-14 normally. Unless things have changed radically since I was a member some years ago...

Just checked - yep, still there - Annual dues $50 first time, $30 to re-up. You can shoot clay birds on the rifle range - that work for you?

Go check this out my friend and enjoy. http://www.efga.net/index.php

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

Larry, just drive east a bit to Easton. There is a fine shooting club there - Easton Fish & Game Association. They will allow you to load a mag and shoot your mini-14 normally. Unless things have changed radically since I was a member some years ago...

Just checked - yep, still there - Annual dues $50 first time, $30 to re-up. You can shoot clay birds on the rifle range - that work for you?

Go check this out my friend and enjoy. http://www.efga.net/index.php

I may have to look into that. The club I belong to used to have a plinking range, which was great for "just for fun" blasting. Unfortunately, the guy that owns the property on top of the hill, the base of which was the backstop, started complaining that he was getting rounds on his property & threatened to sue and shut the club down. (Strangely enough, he hadn't had a problem for years until the club turned him down on a land swap he wanted to do for some acreage the club owned - but that's another story.) As a result, no more plinking with centerfire rifles. I wasn't aware of any other clubs in the area that had plinking ranges. Thanks for the suggestion!

[w30wcf]

CORRECTION: the 6mm-.223 (6x45) is the correct die. THe 6mmTCU is a blown out .223.

I could well be that running the loaded cartridges into a 6MM TCU sizing die to push the shoulder back slightly would "save the day" so to speak. The 6MM TCU is the .223 necked up to 6mm. The slightly larger neck will allow sizing without touching the .223 neck dia.

Several years ago a friend showed up with 3 boxes of .270 that another friend had reloaded for him. Problem was that they would not chamber in his rifle and hunting season was only a couple of days away. After determining that the bullet seating depth was not the problem, I took a .30-06 sizing die, removed the decaping stem, and placed it into my press. I rolled some loaded .270 cases on a lube pad and ran them into the .30-06 die. After a couple of adjustments, they fit aok into his rifle. We resized the loaded rounds in a short period of time. Problem fixed.

I have done the same thing with reloaded .30-30's that would not fit into another friends rifle. A trip through a .32 W.S. sizing die and the loaded .30-30's then fit fine.

w30wcf

[1894cfan]

Like others, and you, have mentioned, the easiest thing to do is just shoot the 500 hundred up. The alternative is to pull them, I've got both an RCBS bullet puller and an inertia puller, by far the fastest, and easiest, is the RCBS puller, even if you have to really crank down on the collet, the bullets are still re-usable, I've done that lots of times with no problems. HTH

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

w30wcf, I like that idea. If it saves me having to pull & reload all those bullets, it would certainly be worth the cost of the die. I'll have to give that a try. Thanks, I would've never thought of that.

[Mokwaw]

On top of the other advise, I would recommend you get a set of SMALL BASE DIES to reload your empty cases with. These dies resize the brass for use in tight 5.56 military chambers.

[3leggedturtle]

Run 'em thru a 357 die to size the case head or get a 6mm TCU die and bump the shoulder back a TAD or try your 223 seating die with the guts removed to see if that gets them within tolerances. Am sure someone else will give you more tips, but dont just write them off UNLESS you think they are overloaded.