OT-Has anyone here ever started a public firing range?

[Jason_W]

And by public, I mean open to the public.

I have a few ideas for one, but my brain tends to imagine only the good stuff and not the road blocks and hassles.

[Modoc ED]

LIABILITY would be a real road-block now-a-days, especially, if it were a public (open to the public) range on private land. That'd be really asking for it.

[JB]

LIABILITY would be a real road-block now-a-days, especially, if it were a public (open to the public) range on private land. That'd be really asking for it.

Very true. Those "not liable for accidents" signs don't mean squat in most courts. You can't waive negligence.

[Jason_W]

LIABILITY would be a real road-block now-a-days, especially, if it were a public (open to the public) range on private land. That'd be really asking for it.

Very true. Those "not liable for accidents" signs don't mean squat in most courts. You can't waive negligence.

What about a signed waiver as a requirement for membership?

I don't know much about civil litigation.

[RANisbet]

I was involved with a range in Texas.
What we found was that NRA had a great amount of knowledge and was very willing to offer ideas and guidance. They addressed everything from insurance to bullet traps, range design, how to apply for Pitman-Robertson funds, and much more.
Contact them.
Bob Nisbet

[Jason_W]

I was involved with a range in Texas.
What we found was that NRA had a great amount of knowledge and was very willing to offer ideas and guidance. They addressed everything from insurance to bullet traps, range design, how to apply for Pitman-Robertson funds, and much more.
Contact them.
Bob Nisbet

That's a good idea.

There are a serious shortage of indoor shooting ranges in Northern New England, so I see it as a largely unfilled niche.

[Pisgah]

Liability is certainly a major concern and, as already noted, no waiver ever written and signed can protect you from it. You cannot waive negligence -- in other words, if I sign a waiver and then suffer damages, I can still sue; and, if I can show that your negligence caused or contributed to my damages, bingo, you are fried.

An indoor range presents a whole 'nuther set of additional concerns. Lead is a major bugaboo these days, legitimately or not. Outdoors, this can mean heavy consequences if someone decides that your berm is now a hazardous-waste site. Indoors, you will be required, whether by law or by seeking to limit your liability, to install heavy-duty, professionaly-designed ventilation that will reduce potential airborne lead exposure.

I don't want to discourage anyone from striving towards a worthy goal, but you will need deep pockets and expert legal, insurance, and technical advice from the get-go to do it right.

[Jason_W]

Liability is certainly a major concern and, as already noted, no waiver ever written and signed can protect you from it. You cannot waive negligence -- in other words, if I sign a waiver and then suffer damages, I can still sue; and, if I can show that your negligence caused or contributed to my damages, bingo, you are fried.

An indoor range presents a whole 'nuther set of additional concerns. Lead is a major bugaboo these days, legitimately or not. Outdoors, this can mean heavy consequences if someone decides that your berm is now a hazardous-waste site. Indoors, you will be required, whether by law or by seeking to limit your liability, to install heavy-duty, professionaly-designed ventilation that will reduce potential airborne lead exposure.

I don't want to discourage anyone from striving towards a worthy goal, but you will need deep pockets and expert legal, insurance, and technical advice from the get-go to do it right.

Yeah, the deep pockets part is the real problem. Maybe in a few years or so.

I'm just brainstorming. I've been out of work a few months now and I'm racking my brains trying to come up with a business idea that A) I wouldn't hate doing and B) I can start on limited funds.

Not I didn't say something I would love doing as I abandoned that fantasy long ago. I'm just hoping for a way to pay the bills that doesn't suck out my soul in the process.

[madman4570]

Jason,
Just my thoughts------
I think the private smaller clubs with at least 150-300 members with enough insurance to at least kinda cover your backside should probably run around $1000@month
Thats for a club that has been established for at least 10 years or so and with pretty much no claims.
A "Brand New/Public one" for almost anyone who pays---------------ALOT!!
Just that cost would need ALOT of shooters @year alone.

[Rusty]

There was one indoor range in our area that was set up in a double wide trailer with all the needed backstops and ventilation. the place burned down not long ago and I understand it is back open again so he must have been able to cross the hurdles, twice.

I'd say a lot of your problems would be related to how your local Govt's view firearms. If you live in a gun friendly area your problems will be much less.

If you look on the Savage website they have a really cool backstop system that would make salvaging spent lead a breeze. Although it would be pricey to start with it would save money in the long run as well.

[madman4570]

Jason,

You are going to think I am nuts, but how about a Small Dog Groomer(specializing only in small dogs and also those small designer type mixed breeds)
I am totally serious.I think being unemployed your state might also aid you in cost for schooling to obtain a license.
Listen,all I know is where we live ALL the groomers here are booked solid and for a 30-40 mimute clip/dip/snip like for our Mini Schnauzer the normal going rate is $40 plus few bucks tip.
The person also can right off a ton because of their expenses and get a kick back on any dog products they sell if they want to sell those also.
Since almost 70% of Americans have Dogs and only 30% have Kids ?????????
Is it better to listen to some old snoot(like me)wander on and on for 30 mins for $10
Or snip/dip/clip(some dont even dip)for 30 mins with the little doggie muzzled for $40
That is getting to be a good field.
"Jason's Jazzy Cuts"

[AJMD429]

One thought is that if you get far enough away from 'people' to get zoning approval, you're going to be out amongst the kind of folks who already have land to shoot on, or friends who do.

Therefore, to make a go of it, you have to offer something above and beyond the old-fashioned 'shooting range', to give two groups reasons to come see ya.

• a. The Already Shooting crowd - they most likely have a dirt backstop and 100 yards or so at home or a friend's. They may not have 500 yards, though (but that's lots of money for lots of land). They may not have fancy targets (again, lots of money for damageable targets), or gongs that can take .308 FMJ day in and day out without damage (affordable for a range, and indestructable). They may not have a chronograph - you could rent them with an appropriate deposit if needed.
  
  b. The Non-Shooting crowd - they are your GROWTH potential, and a way of ensuring the future of shooting sports, by getting other non-shooters interested in, or at least sympathetic to, the shooting sports. What about an on-site restaurant, picnic area, or other on-site business that would draw families of shooters there to while away the hours (and maybe spend some money) while grandpa shoots? What about an on-site business dealing with bait & tackle, beekeeping supplies, gardening, feed store, pet grooming, kennel, or other sort of draw folks would frequent and in doing so drive by the range area and at least see a few folks out shooting, and maybe get curious to join them sometime?

Now, before some folks say "No way, I don't want those kind of non-shooters driving past the range when I'm there shooting; what if they decide to come by sometime with their guns and shoot? What if they don't know what they're doing? What if they disturb me while I'm shooting?" I would just say that one of the reasons we have so few young shooters entering the ranks is our anti-social assume-everyone-who-isn't-already-an-experienced-shooter-is-a-gang-banger-or-moron attitude. It puts people off, particularly women, and kids do what mom allows them to do - which won't be shooting, if she feels it's a hobby for reclusive know-it-alls who wouldn't welcome her kid or family because they aren't already 'shooters'.

I'd go further; I'd make it a point to host very advertized monthly "shoot-a-thon"s for different charities, or local schools or churches or other projects. Get the geezers NRA-certified to teach range-safety, get some scouts or 4-H'ers or local boys out there with .22's shooting bullseyes-to-fight-breast-cancer or whatever. Have people (i.e. more 'outsiders' who sign pledge forms in workplaces, etc.,) pledge so many cents per bullseye and more for higher scores. Build a good or better range than the local cops have, and allow them free membership if they in turn host a monthly women-only firearms class. There's no reason we in the U.S. should have gun ownership and hobby shooting a 'closeted' event - we should be like the Swiss, and openly and proudly have community "shootin-fests". Have a quarterly picnic, pitch-in, or hog-roast!

And yes, if you have to please the reclusive old-timers, give us a day once a month when the place is shut down to everyone but us, and we can quietly come by, unload all our gear, and shoot all afternoon without interacting with a single human being. While we shoot in solitude, we can grumble to ourself about why the shooting sports are not as popular they used to be. (Seriously, I suppose, you could have a few lanes off in a separate 'platinum-club' member's section for shooters who didn't want to be bothered.)

Most of the ranges I've been to offer none of these things, and are empty most of the time, struggling financially, and will close down once the little closed-circle of veteran shooters dies out.

[madman4570]

DocAJ has some great ideas!

Hey, how about talking to someone that has some wooded land to lease to you to start a Paintball
combat Range?
You can hold events(with prizes) for even various stores/companies/sports teams/fire depts/police depts. etc.You know, one Dept. verses the other/ or one Company verses the other/on and on you get the idea.

I am pretty sure that with these type ranges not using any "real per say/deadly weapons" and having the people signing a waiver for this type event, and wearing proper safety stuff the insurance cost should be drastically much more reasonable.You could rent that stuff,or they supply their own.

Also the younger crowd with the parents that are less gun friendly, might tend to think this type activity is more tolerable.

You might even find the right person that would go into a suto type partnership in which they supply the land/insurance and you supply most of the actual running of the business.

We do have several around that seem to do fairly well.

With all the tension/stress in everyday life on everyone----What better stress reliever and exercise workout all in one!

Instead of bowling/skating/playing minature golf for Johnnys birthday/graduation party etc. lets go do paintball.
Did I hear someone say(and the wedding reception we will be doing what)

[rimrock]

You can get costly insurance to address the unforeseen accidents to manage the risk of liability for a gun range--from specialized writers like Lloyds of London or other surplus lines carriers. And, I'm sure your lawyer can draft a fairly strict participation agreement for the members of your range to lower your liability exposure--again for some green.

Even in the rural area where I live, many people don't take kindly to a neighbor who shoots a lot because they don't know how to deal with a gun enthusiast. They certainly will not want more traffic on the already crowded roads. Starting a range is not out of the question, but I'm willing to bet it takes much more effort than a full-time job.

[horsesoldier03]

http://www.nragive.com/range_development.html

There is a link for the NRA for helping build ranges. I think they pretty much have all the paperwork completed done at little or no charge. I know at one time Kansas Wildlife would also assist in getting grants or loans to assist in range development. IMO, the best buisness plan to do this is to start participating in a certain discipline of firearms training, be it IDPA or SASS to network into the industry. There you may find a few friends with the capitol to go with your land and you may be able to do it up right. At least if your in the click you may be able to influence mass events at your complex. It would also give you the ability to get good range safeties to assist you and possiblity get you certified at little to no cost.

[Jason_W]

Thanks for the input, everyone. There were definitely some good ideas here.

What spurred my thinking was a trip to Maine we took last weekend. My wife is planning to attend UMaine-Orono this fall (where she already has two years out of the way) to pursue a degree in nutrition/food science. There are a lot of old mills and other industrial structures in that state which have a lot of room inside. So, the wheels started turning and I started to wonder about the feasibility of converting an old mill or factory into a range. some of are even big enough to where indoor trap and skeet would be possible.

I'm going to keep doing research on this.

[O.S.O.K.]

location, location, location

Also - are you good at networking? You'll need to get the word out that you exist. If you can do that, and have a good spot thats close enough to a sizable population then you should be able to make a good go of it.

I would look at the property from two perspectives - use as the range and then value as an investment should housing developments move in around your range and shut you down...