New guy ammo question
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New guy ammo question
Howdy there,
I’m new. First day and got a question already.
Been shooting for many years, but all pistols & shotguns, no riffles except for a 10/22.
So, I got a wild hare, and as of today, I am the proud owner of a lightly used EMF Hartford in .357, case hardened finish, oct. barrel, reworked action, even a nice leather wrap on the lever. Very Happy. Dam cool gun, and will be a lot of fun.
As I mentioned, I have never owned a gun with a tube magazine, and while unpacking, I gave the included books an obligatory look through. It really made a big bold case of not using FMJ & round nose bullets for fear of them banging up against each other in the tube and discharging.
My question: How big of a concern is/should this be? Is it just a bunch of manufacture over reaction like the 8 various warning labels on my stepladder? I don’t keep a lot of lead ball around, and even less lead wad cutter because I don’t like feeding it to my pistols.
Do I need to stock up? What is the common practice? As much as I would like to be shooting out in AZ or CO wilds, I’m shooting indoors at least 50-75% of the time (it’s going to be tough getting a horse into a basement range) so I really prefer to use a jacketed round and would like to keep with ball for matters of uniformity with my pistols.
Sorry for such a newb question, but I just want to get off on the right foot with this.
Thanks in advance, 8dust
I’m new. First day and got a question already.
Been shooting for many years, but all pistols & shotguns, no riffles except for a 10/22.
So, I got a wild hare, and as of today, I am the proud owner of a lightly used EMF Hartford in .357, case hardened finish, oct. barrel, reworked action, even a nice leather wrap on the lever. Very Happy. Dam cool gun, and will be a lot of fun.
As I mentioned, I have never owned a gun with a tube magazine, and while unpacking, I gave the included books an obligatory look through. It really made a big bold case of not using FMJ & round nose bullets for fear of them banging up against each other in the tube and discharging.
My question: How big of a concern is/should this be? Is it just a bunch of manufacture over reaction like the 8 various warning labels on my stepladder? I don’t keep a lot of lead ball around, and even less lead wad cutter because I don’t like feeding it to my pistols.
Do I need to stock up? What is the common practice? As much as I would like to be shooting out in AZ or CO wilds, I’m shooting indoors at least 50-75% of the time (it’s going to be tough getting a horse into a basement range) so I really prefer to use a jacketed round and would like to keep with ball for matters of uniformity with my pistols.
Sorry for such a newb question, but I just want to get off on the right foot with this.
Thanks in advance, 8dust
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Re: New guy ammo question
Welcome to the forum.
One of the banes of levergun shooters is bullet configuration.
Learn to shoot flat nosed bullets, you will live longer.
One of the banes of levergun shooters is bullet configuration.
Learn to shoot flat nosed bullets, you will live longer.
- kimwcook
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Re: New guy ammo question
Like Mesci said, shoot only flat nosed bullets and you'll keep your fingers, hand, arm, eyes, life and gun a whole lot longer. The only pointy bullets useable in a tube magazine is Hornady gummy tips.
Oh, by the way, welcome to the forum.
Oh, by the way, welcome to the forum.
Old Law Dawg
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Re: New guy ammo question
What they said above, and welcome
Pete
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
Re: New guy ammo question
Some folks have experimented and concluded that pointy, hard bullets are safe in tube mags. It's fine with me if they want to risk it. But, this goes against what has been the rule for over 100 years, long before lawyers made gun companies shy of liability. As in many cases, I believe the old-timers knew what they were talking about, and my advice is to follow their rule. Stick to flat-point ammo.
Re: New guy ammo question
Welcome to the Forum. I am still fairly new to the Lever Rifle. When I 1st started The Top Guy on the Totem Pole here Paco Kelly who is 2nd in Lever Gun experience only to God suggested to me to use flat nose bullets only in my 30-30, and if I were to use the round nose design like many people do to nip the ends off with a wire cutter to make them flat, and be totally safe as he knew of magazine blow up even with the round nose design. I did not want to take any chances.
Re: New guy ammo question
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Last edited by COSteve on Thu May 01, 2014 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Steve
Retired and Living the Good Life
No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
Retired and Living the Good Life
No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
Re: New guy ammo question
Flat point lead bullets with a large meplate are better for hunting too. No reason to go with any other that I can think of. Look at the Beartooth Bullets site for a wide variety of bullet shapes and sizes of lead bullets for .357.
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
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Re: New guy ammo question
I'd stick with flatter tip ammo. Semijacketed hollow point, soft/flat point, etc. work fine, and just be sure that the lead surface exposed is larger than the primer it will be resting on. Make sure your primers are seated fully, too.
It's too bad that someone doesn't file a lawsuit against the lawyers who have induced the instruction manual writers to put so much cover-your-butt stuff in the typical 'instruction' manual, that it distracts us from the REAL purposes they should serve: conveying sensible instructions, and conveying important cautions. Instead they're full of disclaimers, and instructions written in too-basic Chino-American.
It's too bad that someone doesn't file a lawsuit against the lawyers who have induced the instruction manual writers to put so much cover-your-butt stuff in the typical 'instruction' manual, that it distracts us from the REAL purposes they should serve: conveying sensible instructions, and conveying important cautions. Instead they're full of disclaimers, and instructions written in too-basic Chino-American.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
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Re: New guy ammo question
Welcome! Flat is good , round is bad !!
Re: New guy ammo question
yup.Chuck 100 yd wrote:Welcome! Flat is good , round is bad !!
careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
"BECAUSE I CAN"
"BECAUSE I CAN"
Re: New guy ammo question
I wouldn't sweat anything but FMJ or pointed personally. I cant count the RN lead bullets I'v put thru lever actions & even FMJ RN 38 specials. Though I wouldn't use those with anything more powerful than a 38special. If you do a search I think you'll find the only documented modern tube detonations are with flat pointed hard cast bullets in heavy loads, least thats all I'v found. Remington has sold millions of RN 30/30's if that means anything and many people use their bullets for reloading too. All that aside if you feel better useing only flat points use them.
Welcome to the forum & lever actions!
Welcome to the forum & lever actions!
- J Miller
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Re: New guy ammo question
8dust,Leverdude wrote:I wouldn't sweat anything but FMJ or pointed personally. I cant count the RN lead bullets I'v put thru lever actions & even FMJ RN 38 specials. Though I wouldn't use those with anything more powerful than a 38special. If you do a search I think you'll find the only documented modern tube detonations are with flat pointed hard cast bullets in heavy loads, least thats all I'v found. Remington has sold millions of RN 30/30's if that means anything and many people use their bullets for reloading too. All that aside if you feel better useing only flat points use them.
Welcome to the forum & lever actions!
Ahhh, finally the voice of reason.
Check out Remington 30-30 ammo and bullets
Check out Hornady 150gr jacketed 30-30 bullets
Check out many of the original LARGE black powder cartridges loaded for lever guns, including the 45-70.
You'll find many of them loaded with round nosed bullets.
Like Leverdude said keep the FMJ round nose rounds down to a low level and you'll not have any trouble with them.
The only pointed bullets I won't use are those with a hard tip such a FMC ball bullet ( 30 cal in a 30-30 for example) or a hunting bullet with a tiny lead tip on it.
Now, if you're confused by the instruction manual and the various responses I don't blame you. I've been shooting lever guns in various calibers for over 40 years and the only warnings I heard when I started was don't use military FMC ball bullets or pointed soft points in a tube magazine.
In the years since cowboy action shooting started the paranoid types have changed this to "if you use anything but flat nose bullets you'll blow yourself up."
Some flat points are good for hunting, some are good for nothing but play. But paranoia is good for nothing.
Oh, here's something I did years ago with my 94AE Trapper .45 Colt. I had some .45 ACP FMC round nose ball bullets and no pistol to shoot them from. I did some research and found a really heavy Ruger - T/C heavy load with Unique powder for them and loaded them in .45 Colt cases.
I fired these heavy (make that HOT) loads from my Trapper at an abandoned car out in the desert.
They passed through the entire car, door pillars, multi thickness areas like a hot knife through butter. My Trapper holds 9 in the magazine. No magazine detonation, no KABOOM, I still have all my fingers and the TRAPPER.
I won't tell you the load cos I don't recommend it. But I'm telling you this story to illustrate that RN FMC bullets are not all gonna cause a magazine detonation.
Or ..... I just got lucky.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: New guy ammo question
What everyboy else said - don't use anything pointy!!
-Stretch
-Stretch
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Re: New guy ammo question
You are now officially welcomed and over-advised on ammo. Soooooooooooo...
Please post some pics of yor new lever rifle!!
Please post some pics of yor new lever rifle!!
Re: New guy ammo question
Well that's a very nice welcome indeed.
Here is the new addition to the stable. Sorry the photos aren't better, but the wife kept spying on me all day....
She hasn't been introduced yet.
Had it out Friday afternoon as soon as it arived and it sure was nice.
With that heavy oct. barrel, I could barely feel it fire 38's.
Did a search of the back corners of the safe and this is what I came up with:
Don't much like to shoot HPs at paper, and my bare ball I guess is too pointy,
so that leaves me with ol' WWB and some cheap Rem in 38.
Of the two of those, the WWB is noticably flatter than the Rem.
It's no wad-cutter, but it's pretty flat.
I'm def. not what you would call paranoid, but not looking to be needlessly foolish either.
The blurb about the round-nose and jacketed ammo, was imediately followed by a lengthy bit about never using reloads or other non-factory rounds, which although I don't reload myself, it's about 50% of what I've shot for the last 30years and as such, seemed like a bunch of legal CYA corporate nonsense and undermined what sounds like was legit about the round nose.
How big a problem is the FMJ ? I should take that with a grain of salt maybe?
Thanks again, 8
Here is the new addition to the stable. Sorry the photos aren't better, but the wife kept spying on me all day....
She hasn't been introduced yet.
Had it out Friday afternoon as soon as it arived and it sure was nice.
With that heavy oct. barrel, I could barely feel it fire 38's.
Did a search of the back corners of the safe and this is what I came up with:
Don't much like to shoot HPs at paper, and my bare ball I guess is too pointy,
so that leaves me with ol' WWB and some cheap Rem in 38.
Of the two of those, the WWB is noticably flatter than the Rem.
It's no wad-cutter, but it's pretty flat.
I'm def. not what you would call paranoid, but not looking to be needlessly foolish either.
The blurb about the round-nose and jacketed ammo, was imediately followed by a lengthy bit about never using reloads or other non-factory rounds, which although I don't reload myself, it's about 50% of what I've shot for the last 30years and as such, seemed like a bunch of legal CYA corporate nonsense and undermined what sounds like was legit about the round nose.
How big a problem is the FMJ ? I should take that with a grain of salt maybe?
Thanks again, 8
- J Miller
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Re: New guy ammo question
8dust,
That's a nice rifle you got yourself. Back in the day of the original Winchesters it would be classified as a "Short Rifle". It has all the attributes of a rifle, butt plate, forearm, forearm cap, but it has a carbine length 20" barrel.
The round nose 38 spcl second from the left in your hand will work fine in the Rossi. The bullet is round, not pointed and will not produce enough recoil to cause any problems.
The two FMC rounds are a total non issue.
As for the "Don't shoot reloads" warning, every body says that. It is as you said a legal CYA thing. I ignore it, been cooking my own for decades.
Oh, if and when you do introduce your wife to the Rossi, be prepared for her to claim it as hers.
She'll use the married woman's clause: "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine." So you best hide it.
Joe
That's a nice rifle you got yourself. Back in the day of the original Winchesters it would be classified as a "Short Rifle". It has all the attributes of a rifle, butt plate, forearm, forearm cap, but it has a carbine length 20" barrel.
The round nose 38 spcl second from the left in your hand will work fine in the Rossi. The bullet is round, not pointed and will not produce enough recoil to cause any problems.
The two FMC rounds are a total non issue.
As for the "Don't shoot reloads" warning, every body says that. It is as you said a legal CYA thing. I ignore it, been cooking my own for decades.
Oh, if and when you do introduce your wife to the Rossi, be prepared for her to claim it as hers.
She'll use the married woman's clause: "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine." So you best hide it.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: New guy ammo question
8dust, welcome to the forum, there are plenty of knowledgable people here! Very nice rifle you got there , have fun!
Re: New guy ammo question
I just bought a Marlin 1894. The salesman sold me a box of Winchester 38 special, 130 gr. FMJ, #Q4171. They are flat nose, are they ok to use? thanks. Jerry
Re: New guy ammo question
That's a nice find. IMO the 92's marketed by EMF as "Hartfords" are among the nicest that Rossi produced. Too bad Taurus opted out of continuing that relationship when they took over Rossi. And welcome to the world of leverguns. I've used them for well over 40 years now, in several calibers. It's what I mostly use. When it comes to the roundnose-flatnose issue, I have to agree with JMiller and Leverdude. If Remington thought there was a problem with roundnose bullets in leverguns, they wouldn't have produced the Koreloct bullets, for use in 30-30 170 or 150 grains, or the renowned 35 caliber 200 grain bullet used in 35 Remingtons, for all the years that these calibers have existed. The Hornaday 150 grain bullet sold for use in 30-30 applications is a roundnose number. The flat point on the 150 grain Powerpoint sold by Winchester (a company that, over the years, has produced a fair number of leverguns) is barely flat. None of this would be the case if these companies felt there was a problem with roundnose use in leverguns. I don't know as I'd use FMJ roundnose bullets for your rifle--but that's mainly because I prefer the SWC configuration for my hunting purposes over roundnose bullets--and I do have a 357 cal levergun, along with 30-30's 35 Remmies, and a 45-70 Marlin. Good shooting with the new short rifle.
- Griff
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Re: New guy ammo question
8Dust,
Welcome to THE Forum. The subject of appropriate shaped bullets for tubular magazine rifles is not black & whiteNo one has mislead ya; frankly, there's round, and then there's ROUND! With a fair overlap.
The four bullet shapes you pictured are fine. I've my wife & son have shot 1,000s a lead roundnose shaped identically to the pictured lead bullet with nary a mishap. I daresay that if you stick to bullets no pointy'er than that lead one, you, your gun and neighbors at the range have nothing to fear.
Welcome to THE Forum. The subject of appropriate shaped bullets for tubular magazine rifles is not black & whiteNo one has mislead ya; frankly, there's round, and then there's ROUND! With a fair overlap.
The four bullet shapes you pictured are fine. I've my wife & son have shot 1,000s a lead roundnose shaped identically to the pictured lead bullet with nary a mishap. I daresay that if you stick to bullets no pointy'er than that lead one, you, your gun and neighbors at the range have nothing to fear.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
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SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
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There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
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Re: New guy ammo question
8dust,
Both of those you are holding in your hand (bottom photo) are perfectly safe in the mag. Those are what I (and some ammo makers) call "round-nose flat point" (RNFP). Others call them "semi wad cutters" (SWC), though the SWC designation could also include ones with straight tapered sides (truncated cone). In my mind, those or their HP counterparts (and maybe the new Hornady LeveRevolution), are the ideal ammo for a lever gun because the partial ogive on the nose ought to assure very reliable feeding.
Hey, about the leather wrap on the lever, is that something Rossi puts on there? Or is that somebody's custom work? Looks good! I want to get it done to mine! Can you post a couple of close-up pics, from different angles? (Sorry to put you in jeopardy with your wife again )
Both of those you are holding in your hand (bottom photo) are perfectly safe in the mag. Those are what I (and some ammo makers) call "round-nose flat point" (RNFP). Others call them "semi wad cutters" (SWC), though the SWC designation could also include ones with straight tapered sides (truncated cone). In my mind, those or their HP counterparts (and maybe the new Hornady LeveRevolution), are the ideal ammo for a lever gun because the partial ogive on the nose ought to assure very reliable feeding.
Hey, about the leather wrap on the lever, is that something Rossi puts on there? Or is that somebody's custom work? Looks good! I want to get it done to mine! Can you post a couple of close-up pics, from different angles? (Sorry to put you in jeopardy with your wife again )
Re: New guy ammo question
Joe is ABSOLUTELY right. I lost the best shooting .30-30 I ever saw to my wife. She even took it to a gun shop and had the butt stock trimmed to length for her. Getting her interested in hunting and shooting did make it easier to teach my kids. She didn't argue at all when it came time to buy them their first rifles. In fact, she was there with me.J Miller wrote:8dust,
Oh, if and when you do introduce your wife to the Rossi, be prepared for her to claim it as hers.
She'll use the married woman's clause: "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine." So you best hide it.
Joe
D. Brian Casady
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Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
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Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Re: New guy ammo question
I had to join to respond. I have a little pet peeve. It really bothers me when talking about firearms and someone says the gun will "blow up". It is more often used is regard to reloading but also in regard to tubular magazines. What this boils down to is a risk assesment. Yea you can set of a round in a tubular magazine, but that doesn't mean you are going to loose a hand or ruin the gun. I bought a Marlin 94 and have the opportunity to buy a lot of 38 special RN FMJ really cheap. SO I have to perform a risk assesment. What is the likely hood that I will have a proble, hurt the gun, or myself. The answer is slim on it happening and next to none as far as damage is concerned. You can ask a group of older lever action shooters and most of them will not hesitate to say teh RN FMJ is OK. They base this on their experience and the fact that LRN was about the only thing availible for years.
My new Marlin 94 manual says not to use "some" Pointed or FMJ, and then goes on to tell you to ask the bullet manufacuter. CS Lawyers!!! Like some one said above I have fired RN FMJs without a problem. Yea I know it doesn't mean there wont be. I have a chance to buy a bunch of 38 special RN FMJ cheap and was surfing around trying to get a warm and fuzzy for using it in the Marlin. Just becuase I did it when I was young doesn't mean I do now. I am not bullet proof anymore.
I have done a lot of research (and some stupid things in my youth) and would like to share a few things regarding tubular magazines.
This has concern has been expressed a long time but it seems as though its push in modern times is realted to the introduction of flat nosed bullets by a cetian manufacturer. In that year they went from listing RN loads for lever actions to indicating that RN loads were not safe in tubular magazines.
The design of most cartridges in the tube is such that under spring pressure they cant or tilt in the tube due to thier tapered shape. In many cases this alone protects you from a problem as it keeps the bullet from getting a straight shot at the primer.
In some cases however this tendancy may have contributed to the problem. Supposedly Buffalo Bore had a few complaints of this happening with thier HPs in thier hot 45-70 loads. The story goes the the cartridges tilted enough to let the hard edge of the JHP strike the primer just right. The problem was supposedly corrected by switching to small rifle primers and setting them lower in the pocket. Could be an internet myth, I wasn't there, but, my current BB 300 grainers have the small rifle primer.
Smokeless powder in tubular magazines is not likely to have a chain fire even if you somehow managed to get one to fire. And they are even less likely to "blow up". Once the bullet seperates from the brass its usually over. I know this for a fact as I have actually loaded .308 FMJ ball into a tubular magazine. We fired probalby 40 rounds at the range before we touched one off in the tube. Hardly knew it happened. Tube did not bulge, it didn't even jam the action.
This concern got started in the very early days of lever guns. It is not something new, but our new smokless powders and non corrosive primers make it much more unlikely than it was in the old days. The older mercuric primers were much more unstable than our current breed of primers. It took less to set them off. Couple with that the fact that black powder is an explosive and it is possible that blowing up mag tubes with RN bullets was probably a more common occurance.
I can find only one instance where someone was hurt with a discharge in a tube with smokless powder and it was from a 1968 article by Elmer Kieth, so no telling what actually happened. What little I found of the article was not very descriptive of the situation.
I have taken the ball and powder out of a round mounted it in a fixture (scrap angle iron with a hole drilled in it mounted in my vise) and set the RN FMJ centered on the primer and then whacked the stuff out of it. It is surprising hard to get the primer to fire, even hitting them with a ball peen hammer. You can actually hit them pretty hard and dimple the primer until the RN hits the edges of the primer pocket without it firing.
That this will happen with military style ball FMJ is not arguable. It will.
Will it happen with the soft lead pointed bullets? The chances are significantly less than FMJ due to the soft lead. I have shot them without problem, but that doesn't mean anything.
Will it happen with RN FMJ? I doubt it, especially in the pistol calibers but i did get one to go off when hit with a ball peen hammer. So hard it deforemed the brass.
Will it hapen with LRN? Apparently it did in the early days but I haven't found anything to indicate that it has with modern primers and several manufacturers still load lead RN bullets for the 30-30, 35 remington and other so the LRN might be completely safe.
Plain and simple selection of flat nosed bullets is obviously prefferred but even their use does not GAURANTEE you will not have an accedental discharge in the tube. All it takes is a little foriegn material in the wrong place or even the edge of a JHP canted just right to hit the canted primer of the round in front of it.
From a statistical standpoint it is very hard to make this happen with anything flatter or softer than RN FMJ, coupled with the fact that smokeless powder in a propellant and not an explosive even if it does happen you are not likely to sustain any gun damage and even less likely to sustain human damage.
Based on my testing RN FMJ are probably even OK but I still haven't pulled the trigger on the cheap ammo.
My new Marlin 94 manual says not to use "some" Pointed or FMJ, and then goes on to tell you to ask the bullet manufacuter. CS Lawyers!!! Like some one said above I have fired RN FMJs without a problem. Yea I know it doesn't mean there wont be. I have a chance to buy a bunch of 38 special RN FMJ cheap and was surfing around trying to get a warm and fuzzy for using it in the Marlin. Just becuase I did it when I was young doesn't mean I do now. I am not bullet proof anymore.
I have done a lot of research (and some stupid things in my youth) and would like to share a few things regarding tubular magazines.
This has concern has been expressed a long time but it seems as though its push in modern times is realted to the introduction of flat nosed bullets by a cetian manufacturer. In that year they went from listing RN loads for lever actions to indicating that RN loads were not safe in tubular magazines.
The design of most cartridges in the tube is such that under spring pressure they cant or tilt in the tube due to thier tapered shape. In many cases this alone protects you from a problem as it keeps the bullet from getting a straight shot at the primer.
In some cases however this tendancy may have contributed to the problem. Supposedly Buffalo Bore had a few complaints of this happening with thier HPs in thier hot 45-70 loads. The story goes the the cartridges tilted enough to let the hard edge of the JHP strike the primer just right. The problem was supposedly corrected by switching to small rifle primers and setting them lower in the pocket. Could be an internet myth, I wasn't there, but, my current BB 300 grainers have the small rifle primer.
Smokeless powder in tubular magazines is not likely to have a chain fire even if you somehow managed to get one to fire. And they are even less likely to "blow up". Once the bullet seperates from the brass its usually over. I know this for a fact as I have actually loaded .308 FMJ ball into a tubular magazine. We fired probalby 40 rounds at the range before we touched one off in the tube. Hardly knew it happened. Tube did not bulge, it didn't even jam the action.
This concern got started in the very early days of lever guns. It is not something new, but our new smokless powders and non corrosive primers make it much more unlikely than it was in the old days. The older mercuric primers were much more unstable than our current breed of primers. It took less to set them off. Couple with that the fact that black powder is an explosive and it is possible that blowing up mag tubes with RN bullets was probably a more common occurance.
I can find only one instance where someone was hurt with a discharge in a tube with smokless powder and it was from a 1968 article by Elmer Kieth, so no telling what actually happened. What little I found of the article was not very descriptive of the situation.
I have taken the ball and powder out of a round mounted it in a fixture (scrap angle iron with a hole drilled in it mounted in my vise) and set the RN FMJ centered on the primer and then whacked the stuff out of it. It is surprising hard to get the primer to fire, even hitting them with a ball peen hammer. You can actually hit them pretty hard and dimple the primer until the RN hits the edges of the primer pocket without it firing.
That this will happen with military style ball FMJ is not arguable. It will.
Will it happen with the soft lead pointed bullets? The chances are significantly less than FMJ due to the soft lead. I have shot them without problem, but that doesn't mean anything.
Will it happen with RN FMJ? I doubt it, especially in the pistol calibers but i did get one to go off when hit with a ball peen hammer. So hard it deforemed the brass.
Will it hapen with LRN? Apparently it did in the early days but I haven't found anything to indicate that it has with modern primers and several manufacturers still load lead RN bullets for the 30-30, 35 remington and other so the LRN might be completely safe.
Plain and simple selection of flat nosed bullets is obviously prefferred but even their use does not GAURANTEE you will not have an accedental discharge in the tube. All it takes is a little foriegn material in the wrong place or even the edge of a JHP canted just right to hit the canted primer of the round in front of it.
From a statistical standpoint it is very hard to make this happen with anything flatter or softer than RN FMJ, coupled with the fact that smokeless powder in a propellant and not an explosive even if it does happen you are not likely to sustain any gun damage and even less likely to sustain human damage.
Based on my testing RN FMJ are probably even OK but I still haven't pulled the trigger on the cheap ammo.
- GonnePhishin
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1952
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:23 pm
- Location: Bodecker's BBQ Bar & Grill
Re: New guy ammo question
8dust,
Welcome to the fire. As you probably already know, there are many extremely knowledgeable friends on this forum with tons of information.
Pour another cup of coffee and God Bless!
Welcome to the fire. As you probably already know, there are many extremely knowledgeable friends on this forum with tons of information.
Pour another cup of coffee and God Bless!
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson
"I know not what course other men may take, but as for me, Give me Liberty or Give me Death!" - Patrick Henry
"I know not what course other men may take, but as for me, Give me Liberty or Give me Death!" - Patrick Henry
Re: New guy ammo question
Welcome to the forum 8dust and Gyrhed.
This is one of the perinial discusion points here. My take is that for my purposes a round that is suspect by these standards won't do for much further than a "safe" round will. For further there is my savage model 99 in 308.
Alan Wood
This is one of the perinial discusion points here. My take is that for my purposes a round that is suspect by these standards won't do for much further than a "safe" round will. For further there is my savage model 99 in 308.
Alan Wood
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1925
- Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:09 pm
- Location: Upstate NY
- Contact:
Re: New guy ammo question
The lever wrap looks like the type Kirkpatrick and others sell. it's "sew on" rather than a lace-on.
Certified gun nut
Re: New guy ammo question
Deleted
Steve
Retired and Living the Good Life
No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
Retired and Living the Good Life
No Matter Where You Go, There You Are