If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
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If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
in the future, how long of a wait do you think it would be? Of course we have no way of knowing but I'm hoping sooner than later!
- J Miller
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Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
If you wait for an American company to make it, hell will freeze over first.
If you wait for an Italian company to make it, hell will just get a bit cooler.
JMHO
Joe
If you wait for an Italian company to make it, hell will just get a bit cooler.
JMHO
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
Browning would be kinda neat! But I never get what I want, I have been whining about a BLR with a 20" Magnum contour barrel 4 ever. Goes to show you how important I am.
- Sixgun
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Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
Why would you want to bother with a clone or other foreign junk when there are 7 million originals out there? -------------Sixgun
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Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
LISTEN TO SIXGUN ON THIS , BOYS !!!!Sixgun wrote:Why would you want to bother with a clone or other foreign junk when there are 7 million originals out there? -------------Sixgun
RIDE, SHOOT STRAIGHT, AND SPEAK THE TRUTH
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
I'm with Sixgun and Terry on this one. There are scads of REAL '94s out there right now, with prices lower than any clone will carry (unless it's a really crummy clone...).
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
...Because, while there are many "regular" (war and post war) Pre 64s out there, the point for many of us (and main point for a manufacturer) would be a brand new, relatively affordable, modern steel SRC and rifle (round and/or octagonal) to early full-on Pre War dimensional and cosmetic specs,...the likes of which have not been made since then. A war-era or post war Pre 64 saddle ring carbine (with SR and carbine butt), trapper or long rifle--combined with rounded receiver contours--generally doesn't exist (except one-offs or some very limited esoteric model).
Most of us know there are a lot of Winchesters out there, including what commonly is referred to as "Pre 64"...and many of us have a bunch of 'em. Great. What we--or I shouldn't assume, I'll say I--wish for is a NEW 1894 to ca. mid '20s spec carbine and rifle--in the configurations most were found in...but also perhaps adding some new (or old in the case of .38-55 or .32-40 fans) chamberings in addition to the good ol' .30-30. Wa la.
I'll even begrudgingly accept the tang safety if that's what it takes for a US manufacturer like Brownchester, but will not abide the rebounding hammer or combination. Someone like USFA might be able to make one without the junk, and the Italians most certainly can. It would be "nice" but not essential to keep it on our home soil--or at least home brand.
Most of us know there are a lot of Winchesters out there, including what commonly is referred to as "Pre 64"...and many of us have a bunch of 'em. Great. What we--or I shouldn't assume, I'll say I--wish for is a NEW 1894 to ca. mid '20s spec carbine and rifle--in the configurations most were found in...but also perhaps adding some new (or old in the case of .38-55 or .32-40 fans) chamberings in addition to the good ol' .30-30. Wa la.
I'll even begrudgingly accept the tang safety if that's what it takes for a US manufacturer like Brownchester, but will not abide the rebounding hammer or combination. Someone like USFA might be able to make one without the junk, and the Italians most certainly can. It would be "nice" but not essential to keep it on our home soil--or at least home brand.
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
I know they're a lot of 'em out there and have been putting a dent in their population but what gak says sums it up. I don't want to take a nice oldie out and do s/thing stupid like slip, fall and bang it up. I don't mind shooting the stuff out of a new gun. An old beauty...now that's a different matter!
- kimwcook
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Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
Yep, I'm with ya boys. Buy the real deal and shoot the snot out of it. That's what they're made for.Pisgah wrote:I'm with Sixgun and Terry on this one. There are scads of REAL '94s out there right now, with prices lower than any clone will carry (unless it's a really crummy clone...).
Old Law Dawg
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
I am solidly in the camp of those who advocate finding an original and just shooting the snot out of it. You'll get shooting a whole lot sooner, probably for less money.
Some years back I was invited to shoot-fest involving an 1897 or so Model 1894 Winchester in 30 WCF, sporting a 24" octagonal barrel, crescent buttplate and almost none of its original bluing. We ran 40 rounds of brand new 150 grain WW Power Points through it and couldn't seen to miss a gallon jug of water out to 150 yards. Its current owner took it out in rainy weather the next season and bagged a nice buck with it. The old rifle was still making meat at nearly 100 years old.
To me the greatest shame is for these rifles to languish unused.
Some years back I was invited to shoot-fest involving an 1897 or so Model 1894 Winchester in 30 WCF, sporting a 24" octagonal barrel, crescent buttplate and almost none of its original bluing. We ran 40 rounds of brand new 150 grain WW Power Points through it and couldn't seen to miss a gallon jug of water out to 150 yards. Its current owner took it out in rainy weather the next season and bagged a nice buck with it. The old rifle was still making meat at nearly 100 years old.
To me the greatest shame is for these rifles to languish unused.
People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
kimwcook wrote:Yep, I'm with ya boys. Buy the real deal and shoot the snot out of it. That's what they're made for.Pisgah wrote:I'm with Sixgun and Terry on this one. There are scads of REAL '94s out there right now, with prices lower than any clone will carry (unless it's a really crummy clone...).
yup.
careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
"BECAUSE I CAN"
"BECAUSE I CAN"
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
I've got a 1917 SRC and several "Pre 64s" that have had--and continue to have--just such proper field use by me and those before me. However, at some point, I in my remaining years (I hope!) and those that follow me might like to start creating our own history by shooting the snot out of some "new old" guns that are at least very reminiscent of the "good ol' days" (firearms wise). That's what this thread is about.... Doesn't mean I'm going to quit shooting the great ones from the '50s--they're my core guns--but the '17 is going to get retired (from significant field duty) so it can be passed on in reasonable shape to my antecedents.
This is the appeal of the pre-safety Browning 86s and 92s--quality repros of the past's best, plus the Italian '73s and now (potentially) the Chiappa 86s and 92s as well. Although the Pre War 94s admittedly aren't as scarce as these other guns' original role-models, nice, "affordable," shootable ones you don't mind treating like they were new are getting there. The early Pre War '94 I would think could be the next in line for a similar repro treatment.
This is the appeal of the pre-safety Browning 86s and 92s--quality repros of the past's best, plus the Italian '73s and now (potentially) the Chiappa 86s and 92s as well. Although the Pre War 94s admittedly aren't as scarce as these other guns' original role-models, nice, "affordable," shootable ones you don't mind treating like they were new are getting there. The early Pre War '94 I would think could be the next in line for a similar repro treatment.
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Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
Sixgun wrote:Why would you want to bother with a clone or other foreign junk when there are 7 million originals out there? -------------Sixgun
Thats just the Winchester brand, if you add in the Marlin, Savage, and various other single shots so chambered, you have over ten million rifles out there. Hunting one up isn't that hard. Finding one who's owner isn't charging gold plated prices is a different critter...
Watch yer TopKnot
Missouri Mule
Missouri Mule
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
My question was relating to WHEN you think(time frame) an original style 1894 clone will make its debut, not WHAT you think of the idea itself. I know that there are millions of 94's out there. The post 64 variation does nothing for me. What I'd like to see, though, is a US made one preferably(Big Horn Armory maybe?) that is a true-blue to detail pre 64 in the SRC and Standard Rifle configurations without tang safety, rebounding hammer and angle eject. You can't wrong a guy for being a taditionalist who wants some brand new ones. I shoot the oldies too but I don't over shoot them. All we really need is a new, pre 64 style Model 1894 action. Then a guy could build any darn caliber and configuration he wants. Imagine those possibilities.
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Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
What is an "original clone"? Seems a contradiction in terms there. Didn't think a gun could be both. But for clones, isn't the Mossberg as close as we're gonna get?
LK
LK
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Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
jmho on safe queens.
If you take an older mod 94 and dont shoot it here are some other thing that you might do
you would have a rottwieler, german shepard, or doberman and have its teeth removed to make it nicer
you would have a labrador retiriever and never let it go into the water
you would have a corvette or a mustang and never drive it over 50 miles per hour
you would have a one ton ford, chevy, or dodge truck with 4whl dr and only carry groceries to and from the store.
you and your wife have a 6000 square foot house with 3 swimming pools
you have a cessna 310 twin engine airplane and only fly it in the pattern.
you have weatherby 460 magnum and never shoot at anything bigger than a rabbit
you have significant other that is a super model and you only want her wear a burka
If you do these things and choose to do so, hurrah for you. but dont expect me to agree with your decisions.
If you take an older mod 94 and dont shoot it here are some other thing that you might do
you would have a rottwieler, german shepard, or doberman and have its teeth removed to make it nicer
you would have a labrador retiriever and never let it go into the water
you would have a corvette or a mustang and never drive it over 50 miles per hour
you would have a one ton ford, chevy, or dodge truck with 4whl dr and only carry groceries to and from the store.
you and your wife have a 6000 square foot house with 3 swimming pools
you have a cessna 310 twin engine airplane and only fly it in the pattern.
you have weatherby 460 magnum and never shoot at anything bigger than a rabbit
you have significant other that is a super model and you only want her wear a burka
If you do these things and choose to do so, hurrah for you. but dont expect me to agree with your decisions.
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Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
and furthermore, to have a shooter like just about any good rifle, to not shoot it is to humiliate it and embaras it in front of the other guns in the safe might as well paint it pink or chartruse. A collecters piece is different, but with over 7 mllion built that will be few and far between.
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
I'm also in the camp of get a decent older one and use it.
I'm not afraid to make one the way I want it either. I have a pre-64 carbine that I changed the ugly to me ramp front sight on to the early carbine type, and moved the band forward where it's supposed to be, put a long wood fore end on it, sling, and Lyman no 56 sight. I had a good welder weld up the extra screw slots in the barrel and mag tube, and cleaned them up and cold blued them. It's one of my favorites, and it gets used and carried more than any other lever.
I have a '27 carbine I put a spare barrel on and now it's a 16 1/2" truck/rainy weather gun.
The same pre-64 94 carbine, Browning 92, and Browning 86 carbine. All have been shamelessly modified, and I like them all vastly better now than in "original" condition. Where is the best value?
I have a couple other pre-64's and pre war guns that have been used/modified/stripped/ etc before I got them, and they are going to become various 38-55 20" short round barrel rifle, 22" octagon rifle, 20" short rifle round barrel projects. Also have a post 64 that now wears a 38-55 carbine barrel, checkered high grade wood, and the receiver edges beveled off nicely.
Maybe some don't approve of my modifying my guns, but I really don't care. I use them and enjoy them, even more so when they are just how I like them. I'm just amazed that guys won't put decent sights and slings on modern made guns like Brownings and Winchesters. Maybe it's a character definciency, but almost every gun I look at with intent to buy, I think about what I'd change on it. I have particular things I like, and am not shy about getting a gun how I want it for my use.
I would like to lay hands on an angle eject receiver (or donor gun) and build an older style short rifle with nice wood, and a Leupold 1-4x scope for low light use. It will have standard half cock safety, and if a tang safety is present, it will get welded up and refinished. The receiver is likely about all the original part of the gun that I'd use.
I'm not afraid to make one the way I want it either. I have a pre-64 carbine that I changed the ugly to me ramp front sight on to the early carbine type, and moved the band forward where it's supposed to be, put a long wood fore end on it, sling, and Lyman no 56 sight. I had a good welder weld up the extra screw slots in the barrel and mag tube, and cleaned them up and cold blued them. It's one of my favorites, and it gets used and carried more than any other lever.
I have a '27 carbine I put a spare barrel on and now it's a 16 1/2" truck/rainy weather gun.
The same pre-64 94 carbine, Browning 92, and Browning 86 carbine. All have been shamelessly modified, and I like them all vastly better now than in "original" condition. Where is the best value?
I have a couple other pre-64's and pre war guns that have been used/modified/stripped/ etc before I got them, and they are going to become various 38-55 20" short round barrel rifle, 22" octagon rifle, 20" short rifle round barrel projects. Also have a post 64 that now wears a 38-55 carbine barrel, checkered high grade wood, and the receiver edges beveled off nicely.
Maybe some don't approve of my modifying my guns, but I really don't care. I use them and enjoy them, even more so when they are just how I like them. I'm just amazed that guys won't put decent sights and slings on modern made guns like Brownings and Winchesters. Maybe it's a character definciency, but almost every gun I look at with intent to buy, I think about what I'd change on it. I have particular things I like, and am not shy about getting a gun how I want it for my use.
I would like to lay hands on an angle eject receiver (or donor gun) and build an older style short rifle with nice wood, and a Leupold 1-4x scope for low light use. It will have standard half cock safety, and if a tang safety is present, it will get welded up and refinished. The receiver is likely about all the original part of the gun that I'd use.
Last edited by Malamute on Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
I'm with Terry. I buy old guns NOW because they beat new guns by a mile and they cost less. The Winchester 1894 is no different. There are MILLIONS out there without safeties, angle eject, or stupifingly elevated price tags.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
- Griff
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Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
Sixgun & Terry are right. 'Sides, you probably won't live long enough to see what you want. My oldest 1894 is an 1898, my newest is a 1979. They're all grand, some are nicer and fancier than others... but all have and will be shot. I refuse to forego the pleasure of shooting a mdl 94 Winchester just so it'll be a new one. Remember, it's only new till you send in the Warranty card, then it's used, whether you EVER shoot it.
Griff,
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AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
agreed. no repro's gonna beat the real thing. i have a 1915-17? src 30wcf. that i shoot and hunt with as much as i can. not really worried about resale value, don't buy um for that. i'd buy a src rippoff with the rebounding trigger and tang safety {BUT NO ANGLE_EJECT } cause thats the only way anybody will manufacture one in the real, liability conscience world . especially one in a 450 marlin, 356 wcf, or a .307wcf. since i already have the 30wcf.
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Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
I have always wondered about that myself. You can buy a great "real" one for far less than what a "new" one would probably cost and likely have a better rifle.Sixgun wrote:Why would you want to bother with a clone or other foreign junk when there are 7 million originals out there? -------------Sixgun
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
------jnyork wrote:I have always wondered about that myself. You can buy a great "real" one for far less than what a "new" one would probably cost and likely have a better rifle.Sixgun wrote:Why would you want to bother with a clone or other foreign junk when there are 7 million originals out there? -------------Sixgun
Not decent, cosmetically decent, shootable Pre War (carbines especially) you won't...at least that's what I'm talking about. If they'd make THAT spec--even with tang safety--for what they were selling 94s for before Connecticut-closing hype, that'd be a cool thing IMO. That's not what the majority of decent Pre Wars are selling for.
No one's arguing the availability of the "regular" Pre 64s--that I know of. I agree, they are out there to be had--and I've had and have them--happy camper. Geez, none of what's discussed in this type thread--pro or con--are "needs," folks.You guys are arguing AGAINST the introduction of a good thing? That's a new one. It's not like a) you have to buy the new (hypothetical) gun or b) ot's taking anything away from you!
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
GOOD POINTgak wrote:------jnyork wrote:I have always wondered about that myself. You can buy a great "real" one for far less than what a "new" one would probably cost and likely have a better rifle.Sixgun wrote:Why would you want to bother with a clone or other foreign junk when there are 7 million originals out there? -------------Sixgun
Not decent, cosmetically decent, shootable Pre War (carbines especially) you won't...at least that's what I'm talking about. If they'd make THAT spec--even with tang safety--for what they were selling 94s for before Connecticut-closing hype, that'd be a cool thing IMO. That's not what the majority of decent Pre Wars are selling for.
No one's arguing the availability of the "regular" Pre 64s--that I know of. I agree, they are out there to be had--and I've had and have them--happy camper. Geez, none of what's discussed in this type thread--pro or con--are "needs," folks.You guys are arguing AGAINST the introduction of a good thing? That's a new one. It's not like a) you have to buy the new (hypothetical) gun or b) ot's taking anything away from you!
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
I'm basically in agreement with what most people posted here but I'd still just like to see the 94 made again the way it was made before 1964. When I said "clone", I used that term because I don't foresee Winchester making them here again, but maybe someone else would
make one to the original pre 64 specs. If you like lever guns, you can't be against someone building more of them. PERIOD. So back to my original question: Will there in the future be an 1894 again? YES OR NO?
make one to the original pre 64 specs. If you like lever guns, you can't be against someone building more of them. PERIOD. So back to my original question: Will there in the future be an 1894 again? YES OR NO?
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
NO.
Have you hugged your rifle today?
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
Plenty of original shooters out there. Here's mine.
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
New production in pre-64 spec, I doubt it.
Re: If you were betting on seeing an original 1894 clone........
Except for some minor cosmetics there's not enough difference between a pre USRA 94 and a post war to get excited about.kaschi wrote:in the future, how long of a wait do you think it would be? Of course we have no way of knowing but I'm hoping sooner than later!
IMHO buying a good Winchester marked 94 in any configuration is far better than anything that could be produced and dumped on the market by foreign makers.
It's sorta like the Colt model P clones, they sortalook ok and they sorta feel ok , but they ain't a Colt. Same with the imported 92's, so there's absolutely nothing to make me want a 94 with the same problems.