OT, but very important - new CPR method

[Doc Hudson]

Please watch the video, it might save a life. This is not a joke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5huVSebZpM

I got this from a friend along with a request to "pass it along>" i figured i'd reach more folks here than I would by e-mail. Watch the video and spread the word.

[madman4570]

Excellent info Doc,
Thanks-------------you are right, could save someones life!

[JerryB]

Doc, thanks alot I sent this to everyone on my email, after my wife and I watched it a couple of times.

[Mokwaw]

Doc, That's good info to know. I was trained with the 25 compression and 2 breaths method, I can see where this would be much better for heart attack victim.

[Pete44ru]

That's waaay better than what I learnt as a "yout", aka NYC-CPR.

"Lean over the afflicted party, and yell: GET UP BEFORE YOU FREAKIN' DIE ! ! "

.

[vancelw]

See , I'm so jaded I thought you were going to post this....

Dog lifesaver.jpg

Trained CPR dogs...


I got this in an email this morning and when I saw the title of this thread I thought I knew what was coming.

On a serious note, the method of CPR you posted is new to me. I have noticed the trend of the American Heart Assn. towards less breaths. I think they have come to realize that the layperson is NOT going to put their mouth on someone who is/will throw up. "Compressions only" is better than doing nothing. Having an AED handy is far better.

[Old Ironsights]

...
On a serious note, the method of CPR you posted is new to me. I have noticed the trend of the American Heart Assn. towards less breaths. I think they have come to realize that the layperson is NOT going to put their mouth on someone who is/will throw up. "Compressions only" is better than doing nothing. Having an AED handy is far better.

I guess...

But then, I really have a hard time getting away from the ABCs.

Airway
Breathing
Circulation

Doesn't matter how much unoxygenated blood you manually pump around. No O2, No Life. Period.

When one-way-valve CPR masks can be small enough to put on a keychain, and good ones ("Micro-Shield" brand) will fit in any pocket, there's really no excuse.

BLS CPR is not that tough...

[AJMD429]

That's pretty much what our office staff got trained on this summer. Makes sense.

I would comment that every couple of years they make some sort of change, and sometimes it is almost as if they do so to keep the CPR-trainers in business, teaching the new-and-better method all the time.

I think much of the evolution has come via feedback from in-the-field medics and others who have brought some degree of practicality and reality to the theory. Good stuff.

On a lighter note, when our staff was being trained, the question of 'how fast' to do compressions came up, and the trainer said to think of a particular song we'd all heard, and that pace was just about right....

The song she suggested, seriously, was Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust".

If you haven't guessed by now, many paramedics have a warped sense of humor, but - that's what gets them through long days of boredom-interrupted-by-crisis, and they save lots of lives, so I'll forgive them of the morbid sense of humor.

Besides, that song DOES approximate the correct pace for compressions, quite well...!

[Old Ironsights]

AJ... the last Code I worked on had the PT getting 1st responder CPR (with breaths 30/2) for almost 7 minutes before BLS/ALS arrived.

Irreversable brain damage from lack of O2 hits at 6min (+/-). This "new method" would have almost ensured this guy's demise...

[Blaine]

Our instructer mentioned the song Stayin' Alive..... This thread was a real breath of fresh air...

[jeepnik]

Sounds good. Resuscitation has come along way since I first learned DPR in the 60's. Changes in CPR, and more importantly the prevalence of easy to use automatic defibrillators do offer better odds of survival. But the Docs made a good point that the person is already dead.

[gundownunder]

I went to redo my senior first aid course a few months ago, and that was the way we were told to do it as well.
Check for obvious signs of life and if they are not present, start pumping, don't stop pumping till you get an obvious sign of life. Forget about the pulse, if their alive they will cough, or move, or something obvious like that.
That has got to be easier for the inexperienced first aider, no checking for pulses, and no counting pumps and breaths.
Last defib course i did the instructor said "hell, if you wouldn't kiss them then don't do mouth to mouth on them either" . There are a few women around my office building I wouldn't mind doing mouth to mouth on, but they'ed probably wake up and belt me in the mouth

[madman4570]

If I get a going ---------------It's Wipeout!


Ok, really??---------------Its going be {Money for Nothing} by "Dire Straits"

[jeepnik]

I went to redo my senior first aid course a few months ago, and that was the way we were told to do it as well.
Check for obvious signs of life and if they are not present, start pumping, don't stop pumping till you get an obvious sign of life. Forget about the pulse, if their alive they will cough, or move, or something obvious like that.
That has got to be easier for the inexperienced first aider, no checking for pulses, and no counting pumps and breaths.
Last defib course i did the instructor said "hell, if you wouldn't kiss them then don't do mouth to mouth on them either" . There are a few women around my office building I wouldn't mind doing mouth to mouth on, but they'ed probably wake up and belt me in the mouth

Or sue....

[lthardman]

I have been teaching CPR for years for the American Red Cross. I think it is important to note that American Red Cross still recommends the 30 compressions and two breaths for professional rescuer CPR. The purpose of CPR is to circulate oxygen rich blood to the brain. Best way to do that when a person is not breathing and has no pulse (and you didn't bring a fully equipped ER with you) is to continue combining chest compressions with rescue breaths. For the rescue breaths, if you can supplement with a bag-valve-mask (BVM) and even supplemental oxygen that would be preferabe.

But, for people who are not professional rescuers, I guess compression only CPR sure beats walking away or doing nothing.

Of course, they write volumes on what I don't know....

[jeepnik]

With the rise in aids and such, CPR sure has changed. Back in the old days, when air got into the victims stomach, I don't care how good you are, it happens, the victim would regurgitate. That matter had to be removed, and the old finger swipe didn't always do the trick. Sometimes suction would be needed, and I'll let you guess where that suction came from. Facial injuries were pretty common in car crashes because many cars didn't have seatbelts, and as they were required to be worn, many folks didn't. Giving CPR to a victim who's smashed their face into either the dashboard, many were steel) or the front window, always meant a good dosing with the victims blood. Ambu bags worked, but some times the injuries to the jaw were such that a good seal couldn't be obtained. You mouth is a lot more "flexible" and youo just might get a seal. Of coures, there were the displaced teath to deal with. And unlike the movies, CPR didn't work near as often as they swould have you believe. But like the one doc said, "they're already dead", so anything you did couldn't hurt.

Then there'sthe times CPR was done for for the sake of the family. But that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[Old Savage]

Has anyone ever saved anyone with CPR?

[vancelw]

I can't remember ever having done so. Maybe. Get a pulse back, sure, but actually survive later, no.

We have revived more than one with an AED. At least two I know of are still around town.

I hate TV shows and movies where CPR is used (very poorly) and the person gets right up after 30 seconds and everything is okay. No broken ribs, no bruising.... Gives laypersons unreal expectations.

[AJMD429]

Then there'sthe times CPR was done for for the sake of the family. But that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Yeah. Sometimes you CPR the poor deceased patient for 30 minutes so they can call the second-cousin from Hawaii who hasn't seen grandpa in 30 years, and get him to finally 'allow' the local family to honor grandpa's 'do not resuscitate' request. On the positive side, as a resident on the 'code team' in the hospital, I got close beside enough nurses during the CPR to reaize that about 20% of them were CCW-people. If the hospital administrator had known that he'd have needed new underwear!

Has anyone ever saved anyone with CPR?

Yeah, but my experience has (thankfully) been limited to in-hospital patients. I think about 1/4th of them made it through the 'code' and maybe 1/4 of that bunch made it home eventually.

But the Docs made a good point that the person is already dead.

Yep - they're already on 'borrowed time' - all you can do is do your best. God and Mother Nature have the REAL say-so - all we do is CPR while they're deciding the outcome. It makes us feel important...

[piller]

I have never known anyone other than ER personnell and Paramedics to do CPR. I have used the Heimlich once to save someone's life. I was a teenager when I used it, and had learned it in Health/PE class in Junior High from Coach Mike Mcclure. I was surprised and the choking victim was grateful when it worked.

[jeepnik]

Has anyone ever saved anyone with CPR?

Yep, three.

[firefuzz]

I was an American Heart Assoc. CPR instructor for about fifteen years and I think this system has more merit that us ole mossy horns will admit. The CCC-CPR demonstrated in the video first came to light to several years ago and IIRC was developed and tried by a trama doc in AZ with amazing results. The theory is that the chest compressions move enough air thru the lungs to keep the brain alive until P-meds arrive, which is all you're trying to accomplish. Another point, that's easily agreed on, is that more people won't hesitate to use this method vs. the old mouth to mouth system and CCC-CPR will be used more by laymen than the other.

With over 30 years service in the fire/police depts, I've seen numerous people survive heart attacks and recover because someone administered CPR in a timely manner. With laymen usable AED's becoming available in more places I expect that number to rise, I wish that portable oxygen systems were built into them, oxygen is considered a drug for heart attack victims, probably the most important one initally. But it should be remembered that any type of CPR and AED use is intended only as a stop-gap until P-meds can arrive and administer drugs and transport to the E.R. A lot depend on the type of heart problem the victim has, CPR didn't help my Dad at all and was started within three minutes of his collaspe. But my niece and the firefighters darn sure tried God Bless 'em.

Although we talk about the carry and use of disposable pocket mask, I'd be willing to bet that less than 25% of all certified E.M.T.s and P-meds carry one on their person when not on duty. I've also never seen any doctor or nurse administer un-protected mouth-to-mouth until the proper equipment arrived. In the 70's and 80's I've given and seen given un-protected mouth to mouth many times, I won't do it anymore unless it's a child or someone I know, but I will use the CCC-CPR method on anyone.

Rob

[Old Ironsights]

I guess I'm the odd one. I keep an Ambu valve/shield on my personal key ring, keep a Microshield in my coat and have a DynaMed BVM in a clamshell on my DOC duty belt... not to mention my BLS kit w/O2 & BVM in the pickup...