OT- Mountain Lion?

336A · Post by **336A** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:09 pm

I need to hear from folks here that have a good working knowledge about these animals. I've always considered these animals to be fairly thin skinned therefore they can be dispatched with most cartridges fairly decently. However recently I've been reading on other forums that in order to dispatch a mountain lion one needs a minimum of a .357mag while of course a .44 mag would be better yet. Are mountain lions really so tough that one needs a .44 mag? Please enlighten me if you could.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:14 pm

First lion I shot was treed, at about 15 yards. Colt SAA in .357. (it was what i had...) One shot thru the chest/heart.

Some guys I knew swore by their Colt or Ruger sixguns in .22 WMR. They got right up under treed cats and put one in the heart. Heart-shot cats almost always leap from their perch, and most are dead by the time they hit the dirt and roll a couple times.

Of course, there can be exceptions....

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:25 pm

I have read that the Colt SAA in 32-20 was a real popular sixgun for painters.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:33 pm

A .22LR will do in practiced, well planned, hunts. However, it's been my experience that something bigger is definitely more suited. It is not legal here in CA to hunt or kill mountain lions anymore but sometimes, I do go over the NV border with guys that hunt mountain lions there. Most guys just use what they have for regular hunting -- deer, hogs, coyote, etc. but quite a few guys use 12ga shotguns with either 00 Buck or #4 Buck.

Of course there's always the exception and mountains lions being as mean and tough as they are when cornered beg the use of a larger caliber than .22LR etc.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:36 pm

I know a couple guys in Idaho that like to use a 9422M and do just fine with treed cats. I shot mine with my Taurus 357 and he still managed to run off about 50 yards. Hunting something with big teeth and sharp claws, I personally want more than a 22 rimfire.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:04 pm

I like my S&W 629 in 44 mag for that animal if treed. If not say on foot

I will take my Mossberg 835 with (15) 00 Buck @ 1450fps. Hunting one wounded on the ground----------That would be intense!

336A · Post by **336A** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:13 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:First lion I shot was treed, at about 15 yards. Colt SAA in .357. (it was what i had...) One shot thru the chest/heart.

Some guys I knew swore by their Colt or Ruger sixguns in .22 WMR. They got right up under treed cats and put one in the heart. Heart-shot cats almost always leap from their perch, and most are dead by the time they hit the dirt and roll a couple times.

Of course, there can be exceptions....

So then it is feesible to say that ordinary self defense calibers such as .38 SPL, 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45ACP would work as well right? I'd like to add however when used from sevice sized platforms.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:31 pm

Yes, any good self defense round will work fine, so long as you can put the bullet in the vitals. A mountain lion is not a big animal, usually 100-150 lbs. and they have rather small lungs for their size. If you're talking about treed cats, you can run into some funny angles and shots obscured by limbs too.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:46 pm

Ive taken a few cats 22 mag works fine, if you use a CF pistol just dont use HP bullets they can blow up on a shoulder shot. Alot of guys here carry a 44 or 454 cause you can run into a grizzly if they havent gone to bed yet when hunting stars 1 Dec with dogs. danny

Yodar · Post by **Yodar** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:55 pm

How about just leaving the cats alone? Then you would not have to worry about it.

tman · Post by **tman** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:00 pm

.22LR

SJPrice · Post by **SJPrice** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:28 pm

Yodar wrote:How about just leaving the cats alone? Then you would not have to worry about it.

I am not sure I understand

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:34 pm

I think he means just don't hunt them.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:54 pm

I think lion is just about the most dangerous animal in north America, as a threat towards man. I think cats are the most quiet agile hunters on earth. And i would want the biggest baddest caliber available if I was to try and go toe to toe with one,... thin skinned or not. I ride horses in cat and bear country,.. and cats make the hair on my neck stand on end when I see sign or hear them,.... much more than bear.

I carry a 444, but really like my double 12ga. in a scabbard as well.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:15 pm

Yodar wrote:How about just leaving the cats alone? Then you would not have to worry about it.

Like any other predator, they have a place but their numbers need to be kept in balance with the other species. Look what the brilliant reintroduction of wolves has done to the elk populations in ID,MT and WY.

The "leave them alone" mentality is why they are snacking on bike riders and hikers in CA too.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:22 pm

No idea - I hunt black bulls.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:26 pm

TedH wrote:
Yodar wrote:How about just leaving the cats alone? Then you would not have to worry about it.
Like any other predator, they have a place but their numbers need to be kept in balance with the other species. Look what the brilliant reintroduction of wolves has done to the elk populations in ID,MT and WY.

The "leave them alone" mentality is why they are snacking on bike riders and hikers in CA too.

Ya got that right Ted. There are more mountain lion attacks against humans in CA than most people know about. It is the policy of DFG not to publicise (sp?) mountain lion attacks that don't make the local news. Good analogy of the wolf/elk.

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:32 pm

Most of the guys I know who hunt cats regularly are very fond of the 22 mag. Usually a 22 mag Ruger Single Six. My son shot one with a 38 special that weighed 110lbs with a 125gr JSP at about 900fps with no problems.

2x22

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:37 pm

Yodar wrote:How about just leaving the cats alone? Then you would not have to worry about it.

Well,.... if I never saw one in the wild it wouldn't bother me all that much. But being that I become part of a cat's dinner, by simply riding my horse, I have to beg to differ with your concept that I am messing with them. Actually,... it is just the opposite.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:12 pm

The fellow I bought my .45lc from said he used it for hunting mountain lion and black bear. He said he just used the regular Winchester and Remington ammo, for whatever that's worth.

SJPrice · Post by **SJPrice** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:16 pm

My point exactly, Last time I checked' I was top of the food chain and I intend to stay there.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:23 pm

Yodar wrote:How about just leaving the cats alone? Then you would not have to worry about it.

Well, I'll tell ya. Because mountain lions can't be hunted here in CA, it is getting more and more risky to call coyotes as the calls to call them (i.e., wounded rabbit) do in fact bring in curious mountain lions. Most of the guys here in my area of Northern CA don't hunt/call coyotes alone anymore. They go out in pairs. It has not been unusual for the last few years to be calling coyotes and glimpse a mountain lion stalking the call, caller, or decoy.

Alan Wood · Post by **Alan Wood** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:01 am

Old Savage wrote:No idea - I hunt black bulls.

Sounds like I'm not the only one. Or am I wrong in assuming that you talking bout the ones only found on firing ranges or sporting goods stores?

Oops
Typo spealt sporiting sporing.

bigbore442001 · Post by **bigbore442001** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:05 am

I believe that many mountain lion are and have been shot with the 44 magnum due to the popularity of the round for general handgun hunting . When the whole handgun hunting phenomenon started the 44 magnum was the baseline gun, for a lack of a better term. The gun to go for deer, bear and other game. Mountain lion would be the other game. I recall a really great article by Bob Milek hunting mountain lions in Wyoming and he used a Ruger SS in 22 WRM.

As far as leaving the mountain lion alone I will politely disagree. I recall an article written by Judd Cooney on the impact of mountain lions on deer populations. The impact is very significant and many western states would have much more deer for hunters if more mountain lion were harvested. I want to say that a mountain lion kills a deer once a week and some states have mountain lion numbers in the thousands. Simple math that adds up.

I know it sounds weird but I would like to take one and have a mountain man style hat made from one. I had a book about Sylvan Hart AKA Buckskin Bill who led a solitary life in the wilderness of Idaho. He had a hat made from a mountain lion with the tail down the back. You could wrap it around your neck when the weather got cold.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:56 am

I can't remember his name but there was a famous mountain lion hunter who used a Colt SAA in 38-40. He later was hired by Colt as a spokesman and I have seen Colt ads featuring him.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:38 am

Old Savage wrote:No idea - I hunt black bulls.

Angus?

Oh yea, do they look like this?

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:31 am

My rule is, I hunt anything that has the potential to harm me with a little more than I need.

More is better than less in this case.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:36 am

Smart Thinking!

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:49 am

I don't think a few fellas here really understand what kind of physical feats the cougar is capable of,... I know I wasn't. A while back i came across this description on Wikipedia,... not the most authoritative sorce, but interesting none the less.

"Cougars have large paws and proportionally the largest hind legs in the cat family.[19] This physique allows it great leaping and short-sprint ability. An exceptional vertical leap of 5.4 m (18 ft) is reported for the cougar.[27] Horizontal jumping capability from standing position is suggested anywhere from 6 to 12 m (20 to 40 ft). The cougar can run as fast as 55 to 72 km/h (35 to 45 mi/h),[28] but is best adapted for short, powerful sprints rather than long chases. It is adept at climbing, which allows it to evade canine competitors. Although it is not strongly associated with water, it can swim.[29]"

With physical attributes as such,... maybe others can understand that this is no animal to be stalked by in it's natural habitat ! Or an animal I would want to face with a 22!

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:22 am

76/444 wrote:With physical attributes as such,... maybe others can understand that this is no animal to be stalked by in it's natural habitat ! Or an animal I would want to face with a 22!

Most of the fellows I know who HUNT cats use a 22 mag.

Most of the fellows I know, including myself, who carry a gun in case THEY are hunted by a cat, use 357's, 44's and 45's.

I have so many cats around my neck of the woods I always have a 44 at hand at all times.

2x22

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:48 am

2x22,.... couldn't agree with you more!!!

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:50 am

SJPrice wrote:My point exactly, Last time I checked' I was top of the food chain and I intend to stay there.

Ditto!!

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:27 pm

76/444 wrote:I
With physical attributes as such,... maybe others can understand that this is no animal to be stalked by in it's natural habitat ! Or an animal I would want to face with a 22!

Those are some impressive physical stats

Even my "little cougar", Thomas (avatar pic) does some wild things --- a vertical leap that can take him from sitting on the ground to the top of a 6' dresser

, plus many other goofy things he gets himself into (as do all kitty cats) . I can only shake my head thinking about his capabilities if he was scaled up 10 times. Cupcake (my little dog in the same pic) is not nearly as capable

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:38 pm

streetstar /Doug,... I remember awhile back I tried to compare the killing tenacity of my barn cats,.... in relating to what Cougar could be like. It went over like a lead weight.

I think domestic cats are a good example for folks to relate to, and get a better perspective in their brain on what the destructive capabilities of a 100 to 150 lb. feline is capable of.

Other than 'shark',.... I really don't know of a better designed killing machine on earth.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:00 pm

I was hired to hunt that first cat. It had been killing calves on ranches out in the Promontory Point region (in N. Utah). I had borrowed a couple dogs from a friend, because he couldn't get away for the chase. Not much cover in that country. The lion treed very quickly and I was able to get in fairly close for the shot. The most "no nuss - no fuss" lion hunt I ever had.

Around the NW Wyoming corner, the big cate a very plentiful, taking fawns and calves from the deer & elk populations, and killing occasional bovine calves and numerous sheep. They are a REAL problem.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:10 pm

There are at least three on the ranch and they have come as close as the old barn, which sits 250' from the house. I see their tracks often, but have yet to actually see one. The kids did, however, and won't go anywhere up country without a rifle or handgun.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:20 pm

I have seen tracks and resent scat near the barn but have not heard or seen one on the ranch. Other hunters have seen them on the ranch. I don't go anywhere on the ranch with out being armed. It needs to be large caliber enough to get the 4 legged predators as well as the 2 legged. I am the manager and have encountered two sets of 2 legged predators (poachers) and glad I was armed. I had my Colt SAA 45 out when I approached both of them and they gave me no problem. They laid their guns down, I unloaded them and waited for a LEO. One set was teenagers who bit off more than they could chew. The other was an adult that had a rap sheet a mile long. He went back to the "WALL". He was on probation for aggravated assault. I told the Deputy to let me know when he gets out. You can't be too careful with these idiots.

missionary5155 · Post by **missionary5155** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:52 pm

Yodar wrote:How about just leaving the cats alone? Then you would not have to worry about it.

Good afternoon 10 years ago the Dept. of Wildlife in east central Illinois turned loose numerous large cats to keep the deer population in check. Late November, 2009 I was in a tree stand and watched a large all black panther cross a cut bean field at 75 yards headed north. That was the culmination of seeing tracks for my last 2 times up in the U.S.
Problem is this is not the far flung wild west... it is a residential area. To the south of that tree stand just 100 yards away are 15 houses. To the north starting at 120 yards are more than 20 houses. Older adults plus small children life in those houses.
My hunting area used to be full of rabbits,groundhogs and racoon. I saw just 3 racoons during deer bow season. Still lots of deer though. Neighbors are loosing cats and dogs. Several neighbors saw the "big black cat" in back yards.
This is why people hunt and kill preditors. Unless kept in check they will move into populated areas and take the easiest game available. Children and the aged rambling through the woods & fields would be a very easy target.

336A · Post by **336A** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:09 pm

Huh well what do you know, on the news tonight they showed a clip about a woman that found what she claims to be cougar tracks. The area is only about 15 miles from where I live which is the Thousand Islands region of upstate NY. Of course the DEC claim that there are no cougars here in NY despite the sightings that some have seen. Another funny thing is that in last years hunting regulation guide there was no mention of cougars. However in this years hunting regulation handbook it states that it is illeagal to shoot a cougar/mountain lion

Some thing sure ain't right there, thanks for all of your folks help on the subject.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:02 pm

An old German I knew years ago in Brazil swore by a 4" revolver shooting 22lr as "the best jaguar gun". He'd run them up a tree and head shoot them. And a jaguar is a lot more cat than the cougar is. It's bigger and meaner and stronger, etc. That's for relatively controlled hunting conditions. For peeling one off you or a companion then you'd probably want something with more "oomph" to it. For what it's worth, he swore by CCI's Minimag ammo and would buy up as much of it as he could from anyone who ran some into the country.