Are you guy's wrong!

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:10 pm

Leveraction vs underlever!

Over here in Brit lots of folk call leverguns underlevers.

Ain't most guns leveraction and the leveraction we refere to is actually an underlever?

What say ye?

Nath.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:28 pm

Under ??? Under the lever there is just AIR!
Type of first word I thought described what type action( Bolt/Lever/single etc.)

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:37 pm

Just depends where you come from I guess. Of course I have never seen an overlever.

unless you mean the little lever on single and double barrel shotguns.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:43 pm

Of course the Brits are right...

But then again we've been doing it OUR way for some time now...

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:10 pm

There are leverguns, bolt guns, autoloaders - semi and full, break actions, trapdoors, conversions and falling blocks (which have under-levers

) Not to mention a myriad of others with all kinds of knobs, actions and levers - that are not so common any more.

Leverguns are leverguns though

Or lever actions.

And England is a beautiful place with some ugly laws unfortunatly...

We have some of those ourselves and will get more if we don't stay vigilant.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:25 pm

Stirring the pot eh Nath

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:29 pm

Show me an overlever and I'll concede to the underlever term!

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:54 pm

76/444 wrote: Show me an overlever and I'll concede to the underlever term!

Whilst a break action does not really break it is open by a top lever usually , no???

N.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:54 pm

I thought that underlevers were those levers under antique shoguns to open them up? Anyway, the Americans invented the leveraction rifle so they got dibs on naming them.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:10 pm

KirkD wrote:I thought that underlevers were those levers under antique shoguns to open them up? Anyway, the Americans invented the leveraction rifle so they got dibs on naming them.

Kirk, we also ------------- LOVE Canada as well as England.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:51 pm

Woe, I only asked a question and yo' al closin the border on me!

The lever is under the action though all the same, no?

Nath

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:03 pm

Nath wrote:Woe, I only asked a question and yo' al closin the border on me!

The lever is under the action though all the same, no?

Nath

I get where you're coming from Nath. There are a lot of things with a different name for the same thing between our two countries (i.e., boot to carry things in in your cars and a trunk on our cars to carry things).

Just don't pay attention to the guys above that insulted your women or country no matter how many smily faces they put on it.

I served two years in Edzell, Scotland while in the U. S. Navy and was proud to do so. Met a lot of great people there and in my travels over England, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

86er · Post by **86er** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:36 pm

In the shotgun world of England, a lever releases a locked part and the lever functions in one direction. For instance, an underlever is the lever under the trigger guard that releases the bolt and opens the action. A variant is the thumbhole underlever, located in the same place but you stick your thumb in the hole and push forward to open the action. The "conventional" action release is the top lever, commonly found on break open shotguns. The top lever draws the bolt to release the action and sometimes pushes out the third bite or locking bolt. A sidelever like a Joseph Lang is a lever on the right side (usually) that opens the action when you push it down and forward. A thumb lever is usually more of a button on the action that releases the bolt and opens it, common on H&R single shot break opens. As these terms apply to shotguns, I don't see any correlation in name to a rifles operating lever that 1) doesn't break the gun open but rather opens just the action, and 2) operates in two directions .

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:15 pm

TO ANSWER YOUR FIRST QUESTION, NO!!!, WE ARE NEVER WRONG, THAT IS WHY WE ARE AMERICANS !!!!
SECONDLY, YOU KEEP A CIVIL TONGUE IN YOUR FACE, YOU HEAR ME BOY. DON'T MAKE ME HOP THE POND AND COME OVER THERE !!! WE LET YOU COME ON OUR SITE HERE JUST TO PROVE HOW TOLERENT WE ARE.....yeah...right...WELL ANYWAYS , IT WAS THE PC THING TO DO FOR A BUNCH OF GUNNERS SEPARATED BY A COMMON LANGUAGE .
IF I DO HAVE TO COME OVER THERE I'LL HAVE YOUR HIDE DELIVERED TO FRANCE AND YOU'LL HAVE TO DO GITTIN ALONG WITH THE FROGGIES [ HEAVEN FORBID...WE SHOULD HAVE LET THE KRAUTS KEEP 'EM A BIT LONGER...]

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:58 pm

Nath wrote:
76/444 wrote: Show me an overlever and I'll concede to the underlever term!
Whilst a break action does not really break it is open by a top lever usually , no???

N.

Are you calling a break action an OVERLEVER?

I don't think so Nath!

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:01 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:TO ANSWER YOUR FIRST QUESTION, NO!!!, WE ARE NEVER WRONG, THAT IS WHY WE ARE AMERICANS !!!!
SECONDLY, YOU KEEP A CIVIL TONGUE IN YOUR FACE, YOU HEAR ME BOY. DON'T MAKE ME HOP THE POND AND COME OVER THERE !!! WE LET YOU COME ON OUR SITE HERE JUST TO PROVE HOW TOLERENT WE ARE.....yeah...right...WELL ANYWAYS , IT WAS THE PC THING TO DO FOR A BUNCH OF GUNNERS SEPARATED BY A COMMON LANGUAGE .
IF I DO HAVE TO COME OVER THERE I'LL HAVE YOUR HIDE DELIVERED TO FRANCE AND YOU'LL HAVE TO DO GITTIN ALONG WITH THE FROGGIES [ HEAVEN FORBID...WE SHOULD HAVE LET THE KRAUTS KEEP 'EM A BIT LONGER...]

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:04 pm

iceman wrote:Just depends where you come from I guess. Of course I have never seen an overlever. unless you mean the little lever on single and double barrel shotguns.

There are a couple of over-lever single-shots. The Westley-Richards monkey-tail is one such:

perry owens · Post by **perry owens** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:22 pm

Down here in Southern England an underlever is a type of air rifle action, like the Webley Mk3 and the BSA Airsporter, as distinct from the break-barrel style. Never heard one of my CAS buddies call their Winchester or Marlin an underlever.
Perry Owens

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:27 pm

Great info!--------------------And for the record,really I loved England and the people!

Also for me really(call er what suits anyone)just care she shoots! I will stand corrected on this!

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:43 pm

Next thing you know, the Limey's will want to call that tubular cartridge holder an "Under-barrel" magazine...

Oh yeah,, they already do.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:57 pm

HEY TERRY...CAN YA' TYPE A LITTLE LOUDER...I CAIN'T HEAR YA' BOY????????

LEVERBOB

NEWLY MINTED 60 YR. OLD & PROUD OF IT!

Tom Richardson · Post by **Tom Richardson** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:02 pm

Don't worry Bob, it will get worse as you get older.

This is in the whisper mode.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:10 pm

Nath, call it what you want, just please keep posting your storyies and pictures.

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:11 pm

Nath, you can call it whatever you want my friend. Like it or not, you and Tia are more "American" than most Americans I know.

Hopefully, you will move here one day and teach me how to hunt rabbits with an "under-lever". I've always hunted them with shotguns, and I was never as successful as you and Tia are.

bogie

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:13 pm

Since neither "underlever" nor "leveraction" is a precise term, it's not surprising the common meaning of the words do vary; I can see no right or wrong about it.

At least where I am, an "underlever" is a type of falling block rifle with no magazine ("single-shot" here, "single" there). If the breeching is a break open design activated by a lever underneath which swings forward, it's a "snap action," I think it's called.

A leveraction (or "levergun") is a repeater operated by a lever behind the trigger (and on the bottom).

I recall Peabody made a few prototypes of an overlever single shot on their famous hinged breech design.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:26 pm

Nope - vs the Brits we are always right.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:56 pm

Boot = Trunk, Bonnet = Hood, and chips = fries. We sometimes have different names for things than you Brits.

bcp · Post by **bcp** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:27 am

Buck Elliott wrote:Next thing you know, the Limey's will want to call that tubular cartridge holder an "Under-barrel" magazine...

Oh yeah,, they already do.

I have a book somewhere, in which an Englishman in Alaska in the late 1890's makes a passing reference to someone using a double barreled Winchester rifle.

Bruce

Pop Watts · Post by **Pop Watts** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:05 am

Keep up the good work Nath.

We all know that the British have been trying to teach Americans to speak English for years.

Luckily they have all but given up on we Australians living on the extreme edge of your blessed Commonwealth.

Now - having closely examined several Winchester Models of 1873, 1892 and 1894 I have noted that they all indeed do have levers - and they all appear to be on the underside of the gun. In fact, when they were positioned on the top it was very hard to use the sights.

Please note - you are going to loose this one Nath.

A short story - a female friend who was working in London recently was taking a short trip to Spain to warm up for a few days. While in a shopping centre (Mall) she remarked to her travelling companion that she needed to get thongs for the trip. That caused a few people to catch their breath, especially as this girl is a tall elegant blonde.

In Australia we call them thongs, my mates from New Zealand call tem Jandles and I believe you call them Flip Flops - THERE IS A LOT IN A NAME.

Pop.

the telegraphist · Post by **the telegraphist** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:31 am

Bloody Pom, your just stirring the pot, but its kinda correct!!!

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:08 am

It's interesting how just a little change in terminology can make a big difference. I was taught as a youngster, taking my first hunter safety course in the late 60's, That "Hinge Action" and Break Action" were the terms for double barrel shotgun type firearms. That guns like the "Falling Block" and "Rolling Block" were names describing the action and they could be "lever actuated" but they are not lever actions. And that a pump is a "Slide Action" and even though it slides, a "Bolt Action" is still a "Bolt Action" because you manually operate the "Bolt". And finally, that guns like the Winchester models 1873 and 1892 were the "Lever Actions".
Gobbler

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:57 am

I have found the few people I have met over here that call Winchesters, Marlins Etc. underlevers are not very familiar with Lever Action rifles.
As Perry stated, an underlever usually refers to an air rifle that is cocked by a lever under the barrel.
I also describe single shot rifles like the Martini as underlevers.

Some very old Hammerguns are known as underlevers and more modern Hammerguns thus are described as top levers.

I guess I watched too many Westerns as a kid, as my Firearm terminology is more American than British. (except when talking about "Bore" reducers Terry.)

When I worked for Westley Richards it was like a breath of fresh air talking to our American clients compared with the usual snobs and know it alls with a fat check book.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:09 pm

Nath, I love you Man, in a very brotherly, totally hetero sort of way!

furrow · Post by **furrow** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:15 pm

Are leveractions overlevers downunder? (Australia)

And since it takes leverage.... are boltactions sidelevers?

What would a boltaction be... downunder?

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:34 pm

Actually, you can simply call them "rifles", because every other type is nothing more than a pretender to the throne!

bogie

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:54 pm

Deleted.

Nath.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:42 pm

Nath wrote:
Terry Murbach wrote:TO ANSWER YOUR FIRST QUESTION, NO!!!, WE ARE NEVER WRONG, THAT IS WHY WE ARE AMERICANS !!!!
SECONDLY, YOU KEEP A CIVIL TONGUE IN YOUR FACE, YOU HEAR ME BOY. DON'T MAKE ME HOP THE POND AND COME OVER THERE !!! WE LET YOU COME ON OUR SITE HERE JUST TO PROVE HOW TOLERENT WE ARE.....yeah...right...WELL ANYWAYS , IT WAS THE PC THING TO DO FOR A BUNCH OF GUNNERS SEPARATED BY A COMMON LANGUAGE .
IF I DO HAVE TO COME OVER THERE I'LL HAVE YOUR HIDE DELIVERED TO FRANCE AND YOU'LL HAVE TO DO GITTIN ALONG WITH THE FROGGIES [ HEAVEN FORBID...WE SHOULD HAVE LET THE KRAUTS KEEP 'EM A BIT LONGER...]

You know what, I am shocked, shocked that so much knowledge can fit in a pea.

Since when were questions banned in the states, I just asked a question for topics sake. I am sorry that I did not know it is no longer allowed.

Sorry TM, I ain't your boy, you hear me. Oh and where was I rude?

Send me a PM and you can have my address if you fancy a visit.

I never understood it as your site, I am sorry for that TM.

I would never of put you down as a PC kind of guy!

"COMMON LANGUAGE" your language in this post has me all confused!

You are welcome to come and try to take my hide ole' Tell but to have me bannished to France thats just to low down and dirty.

Guys, guys all I was doing was asking a question for topics sake, for goodness sakes lighten up, I've got the army on stand down, we ain't gonna invade!

To those I got all cranked up I say sorry. It's no skin off my nose to not say sorry but in this case I did not set out to offend so- sorry.

Happy now? Do you want your soothers back

N.

PS. If any of you want me off here just get on with it fellers, tell the mods, tell me, just do it. ok.

NATH, IT WAS ALL A JOKE, I WAS PULLING YOUR LEG BIGTIME !!! THAT FIRST COMMENT FROM ME WAS SO OVER THE TOP I THOUGHT YOU'D GET IT INSTANTLY. THERE WAS NOTHING BUT MIRTH INTENDED IN MY COMMENTS, NOTHING MORE AT ALL !!!

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:46 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:
Nath wrote:
Terry Murbach wrote:TO ANSWER YOUR FIRST QUESTION, NO!!!, WE ARE NEVER WRONG, THAT IS WHY WE ARE AMERICANS !!!!
SECONDLY, YOU KEEP A CIVIL TONGUE IN YOUR FACE, YOU HEAR ME BOY. DON'T MAKE ME HOP THE POND AND COME OVER THERE !!! WE LET YOU COME ON OUR SITE HERE JUST TO PROVE HOW TOLERENT WE ARE.....yeah...right...WELL ANYWAYS , IT WAS THE PC THING TO DO FOR A BUNCH OF GUNNERS SEPARATED BY A COMMON LANGUAGE .
IF I DO HAVE TO COME OVER THERE I'LL HAVE YOUR HIDE DELIVERED TO FRANCE AND YOU'LL HAVE TO DO GITTIN ALONG WITH THE FROGGIES [ HEAVEN FORBID...WE SHOULD HAVE LET THE KRAUTS KEEP 'EM A BIT LONGER...]

You know what, I am shocked, shocked that so much knowledge can fit in a pea.

Since when were questions banned in the states, I just asked a question for topics sake. I am sorry that I did not know it is no longer allowed.

Sorry TM, I ain't your boy, you hear me. Oh and where was I rude?

Send me a PM and you can have my address if you fancy a visit.

I never understood it as your site, I am sorry for that TM.

I would never of put you down as a PC kind of guy!

"COMMON LANGUAGE" your language in this post has me all confused!

You are welcome to come and try to take my hide ole' Tell but to have me bannished to France thats just to low down and dirty.

Guys, guys all I was doing was asking a question for topics sake, for goodness sakes lighten up, I've got the army on stand down, we ain't gonna invade!

To those I got all cranked up I say sorry. It's no skin off my nose to not say sorry but in this case I did not set out to offend so- sorry.

Happy now? Do you want your soothers back

N.

PS. If any of you want me off here just get on with it fellers, tell the mods, tell me, just do it. ok.
NATH, IT WAS ALL A JOKE, I WAS PULLING YOUR LEG BIGTIME !!! THAT FIRST COMMENT FROM ME WAS SO OVER THE TOP I THOUGHT YOU'D GET IT INSTANTLY. THERE WAS NOTHING BUT MIRTH INTENDED IN MY COMMENTS, NOTHING MORE AT ALL !!!

Yup,... takes a bit of getting used to,... but TM is is a jokester curmudgeon for sure!!!

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:48 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:
Nath wrote:
Terry Murbach wrote:TO ANSWER YOUR FIRST QUESTION, NO!!!, WE ARE NEVER WRONG, THAT IS WHY WE ARE AMERICANS !!!!
SECONDLY, YOU KEEP A CIVIL TONGUE IN YOUR FACE, YOU HEAR ME BOY. DON'T MAKE ME HOP THE POND AND COME OVER THERE !!! WE LET YOU COME ON OUR SITE HERE JUST TO PROVE HOW TOLERENT WE ARE.....yeah...right...WELL ANYWAYS , IT WAS THE PC THING TO DO FOR A BUNCH OF GUNNERS SEPARATED BY A COMMON LANGUAGE .
IF I DO HAVE TO COME OVER THERE I'LL HAVE YOUR HIDE DELIVERED TO FRANCE AND YOU'LL HAVE TO DO GITTIN ALONG WITH THE FROGGIES [ HEAVEN FORBID...WE SHOULD HAVE LET THE KRAUTS KEEP 'EM A BIT LONGER...]

You know what, I am shocked, shocked that so much knowledge can fit in a pea.

Since when were questions banned in the states, I just asked a question for topics sake. I am sorry that I did not know it is no longer allowed.

Sorry TM, I ain't your boy, you hear me. Oh and where was I rude?

Send me a PM and you can have my address if you fancy a visit.

I never understood it as your site, I am sorry for that TM.

I would never of put you down as a PC kind of guy!

"COMMON LANGUAGE" your language in this post has me all confused!

You are welcome to come and try to take my hide ole' Tell but to have me bannished to France thats just to low down and dirty.

Guys, guys all I was doing was asking a question for topics sake, for goodness sakes lighten up, I've got the army on stand down, we ain't gonna invade!

To those I got all cranked up I say sorry. It's no skin off my nose to not say sorry but in this case I did not set out to offend so- sorry.

Happy now? Do you want your soothers back

N.

PS. If any of you want me off here just get on with it fellers, tell the mods, tell me, just do it. ok.
NATH, IT WAS ALL A JOKE, I WAS PULLING YOUR LEG BIGTIME !!! THAT FIRST COMMENT FROM ME WAS SO OVER THE TOP I THOUGHT YOU'D GET IT INSTANTLY. THERE WAS NOTHING BUT MIRTH INTENDED IN MY COMMENTS, NOTHING MORE AT ALL !!!

cool, I'll put my soother back in then

N.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:21 pm

Pop Watts wrote:In Australia we call them thongs, my mates from New Zealand call them Jandles and I believe you call them Flip Flops.

I remember them being called "thongs" here in the US circa 1970. I don't know when the change in name occurred here.

My family still calls the light shoes made of a single piece of dense foam rubber "Trellos." My wife and kids first started using them when we lived in Melbourne. We were confused when we heard them called "Crocs" here in the US. They had some other name in England; Trellos didn't register with the store clerks there.

What's a "soother" and were do you put it back in?

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:43 pm

Soothers (or dummy over here), what babies suck when you want them to go to sleep and what they spit out just before they scream the house down.

N.

Batman1939 · Post by **Batman1939** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:47 pm

Since this topic has digressed to the point where "thongs" are being discussed, I think it may be appropriate to offer a suggest a synonymous term: "butt floss"- this provides suitable imagery for what is being discussed.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:02 pm

Nath wrote:Soothers (or dummy over here), what babies suck when you want them to go to sleep and what they spit out just before they scream the house down.

N.

Pacifier. Not to be confused with a peacemaker...

waz · Post by **waz** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:42 pm

Over here we get some side-lever air rifles and under-lever air rifles. But lever actions are lever actions.

Waz

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:17 pm

Nath wrote:Soothers (or dummy over here), what babies suck when you want them to go to sleep

I've never heard them called soothers here or over there. Where we lived in England (near Peterborough) they were called dummies. I think that's what they were called back in Australia, too. In Illinois, I've always heard them called pacifiers. (My kids never used them.)

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:02 pm

Where I grew up in central Canada, they were called 'soothers', but now where I live now, everyone calls them 'pacifiers'. Also, where I grew up, flip flops were called thongs. In more recent years, I've had a few embarrassing incidents when I'd forget myself and call flip flops 'thongs', sometimes without realizing I'd said a bad word.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:25 pm

In the U.P and the northern forests of Wisconsin when I was a tad younger they called 'em "soothers" also. 'Course back then most parents up there used parts of critters as a substitute for those rubber/plastic do-hickey's (figure that one out!). Down here where I reside now, they all call 'em "pacifiers", and I thought that all along that was a type of switch (or paddle if your citified). Got slapped at the grocery store last summer when I asked this young damsel to come over and show me them, there thongs....I was intrigued by her snake skin sandals....she must of mis understood.

Bigahh · Post by **Bigahh** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:27 pm

All this talk brings has me thinking why does most everyone call "Soccer" Football...or should I say Futball? As far as Lever guns go, I always knew them only as Tirty-Tirty, and Tirty Two Special. Thats what my Grandfather called them, and then he would say" God those are good for Deer! I always thought Lever Action Rifles came in 2 calibers only. You guys taught me that was not the case!

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:59 pm

Bigahh wrote:why does most everyone call "Soccer" Football

It seems to me the question is: why do we Americans call the gridiron game "football?" -- most plays don't involve the foot at all (except to run), and it's not played with a (round) ball.

It's obvious why most of the world calls soccer "football" -- the game is played with your foot against a ball.

In Australia, they have "footy" or football, and it's neither game.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:10 pm

Bigahh wrote:All this talk brings has me thinking why does most everyone call "Soccer" Football...or should I say Futball?

It's a matter of logic. A round ball. Kicked by the feet. Touching with the hand is a penalty - unless you're the one designated player in the one designated area that is allowed to do so. Therefore it's logical - football. Now you get a bunch of guys in the cow pasture fussing over 25 cents and messing around with an oblong air filled bladder and call it "football" when it's only kicked a couple times in the whole game? That, my friend, is illogical as all get out. But then I've never been a fan of professional "sports" and can't get all worked up about any of them.