SA or DA(which)

[madman4570]

Guys,

I got to thinking about that guy who killed that Huge starving Brown Bear in which the bear ambushed him?

I know some of you guys on here are very used to firing a SA "Fast" but I have to believe that guy when that bear charged him he fired those 3(or how many)rounds in DA mode.

In Big Bear(critter) country what's your thoughts on which to carry.Myself,of my stuff it's my DA 454 Casull.I just do not think under that circumstance a SA would have served "me" as well!

Just my thoughts ??? What's your's ???

[RKrodle]

I shoot a DA better and am more comfortable with a DA. I would be using a DA.

[Malamute]

In heavier recoiling rounds, the DA isnt so much of an advantage as far as speed, at least compared to someone fairly familiar with an SA pistol. I can shoot a DA faster from the leather, but once an SA is in hand, there isnt much difference for me, especially in full power 44 mag or 45 Colt loads. The SA is distinctly more comfortable to shoot heavy loads in for many of us also. I have an old hand injury that makes full power 44 mag loads painful in a Smith DA. SA's are OK.

[Streetstar]

Under the circumstances, i would have to give the nod to a DA gun for me, because i do not "train" myself with my pistols that much, i just go shootin. (1911's excepted, i have actually run a few drills with those)

But, i can usually have the cylinder cocked and ready to go on my .45 SA before it settles down into battery again after heavy recoilling loads, i cock it as the barrel falls. Personally, i would not want to apply this tactic under stress though and it may not be practical at mouthwash distances. I have more double action revolvers than single actions, but they are not defensive revolvers, they are big guns that i try to hit small things with, so i usually fire those in single action mode too -- cocking the cylinder manually has become a reflex action almost

But thats me, because i am a guy who goes shooting 2 times a month --- if i had more time to become truly proficient with the SA, i think i might say "either" though

[mescalero1]

Smith Model 629 in bear country.

[rjohns94]

I carry a DA more often than not but in Alaska bear country, it would be my FA .475 Linebaugh on my hip so it would have to make do. When hiking the appalacian trail in bear country, I carry my Colt SAA in .44special with grizzly loads. I had a 3 inch Smith 629-6 in .44mag for the job but I like the Colt better. So where bears are a concern, I guess its a SA for me cause thats all I have.

[Paladin]

My 1st pistol a Ruger Single Six got me into the habit of having it in my hand and ready to use with no thought or delay. I have used DA at work for years and have no problem using either but prefer the SA in .45 Colt with a heaver load in the field.

[BigSky56]

Madman, both will work but if the worse case scenario happens of a bear standing over you and chewing on you a DA will be easy to work with one hand and not having to change your grip to cock the weapon as with a SA. I use a ruger 100 with Buffalo Bore 180's and with the tests Ive done BB 180 357 penetrate just as deep as my buddies BB 44 305's. danny

[86er]

I use a DA with moderate loads. I've tried heavy loads and even the 454 like you have. I can't make two hits nearly as fast as with a more mild load/cartridge. The bullet is exponentially important for bear protection so I like the Punch solids. At 900 FPS from a 44 or 45 cal DA I can shoot 2 shots in one second and actually hit the target. Another consideration is if you are injured or somewhat incapacitated and you have to either shoot with your "other" hand or you can't cock the gun for some reason, the SA will be more difficult to operate.

[76/444]

Which?


Without question,..... double action!

Now,..... before all the SA guys dig out the tar and feathers, let me state that ALL my life I shot SA, .... up until about 5 years ago. So basically I AM a SA guy!

But I picked up a ultra lite CCW / bear protection piece back then and gentlemen, it is bitch'n!!! Actually this is kinda simple. With DA you have the option to shoot either way the situation demands. With SA, you don't!

Now, I honestly believe carrying any caliber more powerful than maxed 44mag loads,... I would opt for SA only. No need, in my opinion, to have DA with the latest maxed out hand cannons, if you could buy one.

[jeepnik]

Oh, I guess I'm a Trans-actional. I'll use either SA or DA. I don't see any speed advantage in either when dealing with heavy recoiling revolvers. If they weren't so darned large, one of the Wildeys or an old Automag would work as well.

[madman4570]

Some Great info so far Guys, THANKS!

[Terry Murbach]

There is no doubt in my mind I will/would pick a single action revolver. The reason being under stress when the shiq hits the fan I will subconciously cock that DA hammer everytime anyways. BEEN THERE DONE IT, BOUGHT THE T-SHIRT that says "YOU'RE A WINNER".

[CowboyTutt]

This is a video made by my friend "Camp Cook" who lives in Canada and is a very accomplished outdoorsman. I've known him for years from the 454 Casull forum. I think his video which compares heavy 45 Colt and 454 in a double action custom Ruger SRH 454 shows that with practice you can shoot a 454 pretty fast and accurately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJOIRP_dy9c

I like SA hand guns but prefer DA for a number of reasons. One of the more important is that the grip design of most DA guns allows you to hold closer to the bore-centerline and they tend to be easier to control muzzle rise than in a SA. The exception is the Ruger Bisley grip that also allows you to "choke up" on your hold and control the gun well. This is why John Linebaugh ONLY builds his heavy caliber Rugers on a Bisley grip frame. A tradional Colt grip frame just does not work as well for super magnum handguns. The FA guns also have a pretty well thought out grip frame for a SA. Bob's round butt design is better for shorter length barrels in the FA according to him.

Lastly, the versitality of the 454 handgun (or the 460 as in my S&W snubbie) cannot be overstated. You can load them from mild 45 Colt, to 454 Casull to super magnum 460 for whatever your personal needs are.

-Tutt

[Warhawk]

A Smith & Wesson for me, specifically a 629 Mountain Gun. My reasoning is pretty simple, I shoot a S&W better than I do any single action revolver.

[Tycer]

I shoot a DA better and am more comfortable with a DA. I would be using a DA.

YEP!

[Hobie]

In heavier recoiling rounds, the DA isnt so much of an advantage as far as speed, at least compared to someone fairly familiar with an SA pistol. I can shoot a DA faster from the leather, but once an SA is in hand, there isnt much difference for me, especially in full power 44 mag or 45 Colt loads. The SA is distinctly more comfortable to shoot heavy loads in for many of us also. I have an old hand injury that makes full power 44 mag loads painful in a Smith DA. SA's are OK.

That is my feeling. I'm moving more and more to SAs for those guns chambering cartridges larger than .357 Magnum.

[madman4570]

Thanks Guys!

[Terry Murbach]

Thanks Guys!

NO PROBLEM. The bill is in the mail.

[shdwlkr]

The largest pistol I have is a ROA and that is fired in SA mode and don't see where DA would be an avantage. Before someone says that my isn't that big remember it fires a .457 ball and I can load it to 44 magnum load status.
All of my other pistols are smaller and shoot DA and I find that the first round I fire single action style, unless I am firing for my ccw then it is all DA as that is what is wanted by my instructor and re-qualification cetifications.

[piller]

I have a SRH in .480 Ruger. In bear country I would be carrying some handloads with the 400 grain soft points which I used a while back on a Water Buffalo down in Hondo. I used my Puma model 92 on the Buff, but in the handgun, a slightly lower powder charge would make for great penetration. Maybe the Cast Performance bullets in 425 grain with IMR4227 out of the handgun would be a good choice. I would probably call and ask Mike Rintoul about that powder with those bullets out of a handgun before going into bear country. 425 grain wide flat point hard lead slugs at around 1000fps sounds like a recipe for good penetration, but I truly don't know.

[Malamute]

"The largest pistol I have is a ROA and that is fired in SA mode and don't see where DA would be an avantage. Before someone says that my isn't that big remember it fires a .457 ball and I can load it to 44 magnum load status."

I'm curious what velocity you are getting with that gun and load. I'd be skeptical if you're actually getting into 44 magnum power range.

[JerryB]

I reckon since I have been shooting my Colt since 1959, if I were to go into "Big Bear" country I would just carry it with a large does of Unique and a .45 255 grain hard cast Keith bullet. I am kind of use to it by now.

[piller]

Malamute, I can load it up about 350 fps faster with that weight bullet, and that weight and speed is much more than .44 Mag power level, but I would load it down some because at near maximum levels I can't shoot it one handed.

[shdwlkr]

just for your information Ruger's old army manual states on page 10
It is safe to use as much Black Powder as the chamber will hold, leaving room for
the bullet.
some use only 3f but some also use 4f, not me but if you want you can

The ROA’s chambers will hold up 40 grs. of FFFg or an equal volume of the substitute powders under a pure lead ball.
I will not state my charge as it works in my pistol and it is my neck if it fails
go here and read what has been done with the ROA
http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts ... PN=0&TPN=1

[gundownunder]

I can shoot SA a lot more accurately than DA. In fact I can't hit the broad side of a barn in DA.
I shoot our modified mandar at the club and get six shots away, (on target) in 4 seconds in SA mode.
But when the shorts turn brown, I think the average person will just keep pulling the trigger even after the gun goes "click, click, click", and I think a grizzly coming at me would definitely turn my shorts brown

Um, back to the question,
Under extreme duress you will get tunnel vision and only your most basic of gross motor skills will function, so go the DA.

[Hobie]

"The largest pistol I have is a ROA and that is fired in SA mode and don't see where DA would be an avantage. Before someone says that my isn't that big remember it fires a .457 ball and I can load it to 44 magnum load status."

I'm curious what velocity you are getting with that gun and load. I'd be skeptical if you're actually getting into 44 magnum power range.

I had the same thought...

I wasn't going to read the 9 pages of rambling with only a bit of real data thrown in here and there but I note that it starts right off with describing .357 Mag level energies and moving to altering the gun to achieve any more performance. My feeling on that is that the .50 cal conversion is the way to go. Also, if you want to hunt with it, get closer. For those who use these for self-defense due to some peculiar confluence of legal eddies, the standard revolver will work just fine.

[shdwlkr]

Hobie
Anyone who alters their ROA that much needs help as yes it is a modern pistol adapted to black powder and one of the strongest ever made. But if you want a magnum why not just buy a magnum.
I didn't and won't post my loads as they are safe for me as I have no desire to blow up my ROA or me and I was just saying that it can and has been done.
As to the long post I could have wasted my time and cut and pasted the material but I was under the impression that I was on a site where individuals would know real information from stuff. Sorry for the mistake
Also anyone who fires DA without using both hands is asking for misses. When taking my ccw class we were taught to use both hands same as when I was in the Army, only using one hand was acceptable if the other was useless because of being wounded.
Sorry for the rant but I am so sick and tired of individuals thinking that they know it all about every firearm out there and that no one could know more on the subject.
I also have seen were so hot load the 44 mag does that make it a better firearm, not in my mind but I have seen and read a lot about individuals who think they know more then the factories who make the firearms.