.38 SPL / .357 magg case based subloads.

[Rifleman336]

Trooper Joe, mentioned that he uses .38's for squirrals and rabbit.

It got me woundering if there is a way to use a round ball and a light charge of powder to kill a squirrel 20' up in a tree of a rabbit 20' away, and not have a round go 2 miles and or blow the game to shreds.

Is their a SAFE way to load a .38 SPL / .357 Mag cases to a .38 Short / Long Colt velocity levels?? I've heard small power charges in a case with too much capacity and it can result in a "blow up".

Rifleman 336

[J Miller]

Rifleman336,

Yes, it's called a 147gr wad cutter. Load them to target velocities and they work wonders for squirrels and bunnies. I kind of like the longer HB WC bullets as they seem to stabilize best in a variety of bores.
They can be used in both 38 and 357 cases with ease.

Joe

[Old Ironsights]

Another option is the 75gr "collar button" bullet, usually loaded in a stack of 3 over a relatively light charge (say, 3gr titegroup) so that the group doesn't exit the barrel faster than 800fps or so.

Very quiet and death on small things.

I also load a pure lead 158gr cast HP and a 180gr solid to similar velocities. some loads make less noise than a .177 pellet gun but hit with upwards of 100ftlbs at 25yds (max range).

[Rifleman336]

Rifleman336,

Yes, it's called a 147gr wad cutter. Load them to target velocities and they work wonders for squirrels and bunnies. I kind of like the longer HB WC bullets as they seem to stabilize best in a variety of bores.
They can be used in both 38 and 357 cases with ease.

Joe

Yes, I know of that , but I was wondering if I could drop the velocity in the 500-700 FPS range, like the old Short Colt rounds. It performance seems laughable today but I'm going after small game at short range so I can get by with less. Right now all the load data I have are 700 FPS+. Topped with the old 150 grain bulliet I'd mimick the results of that obsoulete round.

Rifleman 336

[Rifleman336]

Another option is the 75gr "collar button" bullet, usually loaded in a stack of 3 over a relatively light charge (say, 3gr titegroup) so that the group doesn't exit the barrel faster than 800fps or so.

Very quiet and death on small things.

I also load a pure lead 158gr cast HP and a 180gr solid to similar velocities. some loads make less noise than a .177 pellet gun but hit with upwards of 100ftlbs at 25yds (max range).

3 X 75 grains like a old time Triplex round? I know NEI makes a 77gr button mold, so I can look in to that and thanks for the other load info that'll be helpful for sure.

I had another thought, there a cowboy powder that the flakes look like little dougnuts, it's imported out of Austrialia, I can't remember it's name, I know it's a large volume low velocity powder. Does anybody experiance with it??

Rifleman 336

[AJMD429]

Ammoguide.com has a bunch of reduced loads for .357 Mag. One was 700 fps for a 200 grain bullet.

[BAGTIC]

If you are willing to load them singleshot there is. It's one reason I prefer 92's and 94's to Marlins.

Load 4-5 grains of Red Dot into a .357 case and using a pencil (eraser end) or similar dowel seat a .360 round ball directly over power for compressed load. It is quiet like an air rifle (subsonic) and the round ball doesn't carry as far as a regular bullet thereby increasig safety.

[J35]

I use two .360 RB in either 38special cases or .357. Two .360 RBs will weigh approx 140 grs, I use data for 148 gr WC Target loads paying attention to WC seating depth and not seating the first ball any deeper.

Have fun

[Slick]

I know that it's not what you asked, but I own a .22 rimfire to cover those purposes. It's difficult to beat as a solution..

[Rifleman336]

I know that it's not what you asked, but I own a .22 rimfire to cover those purposes. It's difficult to beat as a solution..

Only if you'll be my caddie with a golf bag full of guns!!!

Rifleman 336

[Rifleman336]

I use two .360 RB in either 38special cases or .357. Two .360 RBs will weigh approx 140 grs, I use data for 148 gr WC Target loads paying attention to WC seating depth and not seating the first ball any deeper.

Have fun

That sounds tricky, Iknow on can get in to real trouble, real fast when loading 148 wadcutters, for if the round sinks too much, and KABOOM!!! I can only wonder if I could load TWO round balls safely. One maybe, two...........

Rifleman 336

[Rifleman336]

If you are willing to load them singleshot there is. It's one reason I prefer 92's and 94's to Marlins.

Load 4-5 grains of Red Dot into a .357 case and using a pencil (eraser end) or similar dowel seat a .360 round ball directly over power for compressed load. It is quiet like an air rifle (subsonic) and the round ball doesn't carry as far as a regular bullet thereby increasig safety.

Thanks, this is more along the lines of what I desire. Thanks, another one for my notes.

During WWII throughout the 1950's there used to be a Round Ball, single load only, round, for the 1911 issued by the military for survival purposes. Good for rabbit and slightly larger game. This is what I was thinking about, for the rifle / pistol. Power has it's place but not vaporizing game.

Thank you, Bagtic. I have some more things to add to my bag of tricks.

Rifleman 336

[Rifleman336]

This might be a nice read for you:

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/ed.html

Thanks, TB Good, your right!! They're are great reads!!
Thanks to everybody for their opinions and advice, all are duly noted.

Rifleman 336

[Slick]

Only if you'll be my caddie with a golf bag full of guns!!!

Rifleman 336

I hear ya, but a "golf bag full of guns" is only a bad thing back before they put engines on stuff with wheels. Besides, I'd feel awkward if I only went somewhere with just one gun.

[revolvergeek]

I use two .360 RB in either 38special cases or .357. Two .360 RBs will weigh approx 140 grs, I use data for 148 gr WC Target loads paying attention to WC seating depth and not seating the first ball any deeper.

Have fun

How do you make sure you keep the lower ball at the correct depth? I have a few boxes of old Remington Multiball in .38 and .357, and although I don't shoot it much, it is fun to play with sometimes and it would be handy to be able to duplicate them.

Thanks,
Danny

[COSteve]

I'd say that your best bet would be to use some low performing, bulky powder to take up the volume in the case. CASS shooters do that all the time and many use IMR Trail Boss powder to achieve good case density but low velocities.

[adirondakjack]

I'd look to something along the lines of a 90 grain .380 bullet on top a very light charge of Trail Boss. Ya ought to be able to get it down to around 500 fps without squibs...

[retmech]

" Yes, I know of that , but I was wondering if I could drop the velocity in the 500-700 FPS range, like the old Short Colt rounds. It performance seems laughable today but I'm going after small game at short range so I can get by with less. Right now all the load data I have are 700 FPS+. Topped with the old 150 grain bulliet I'd mimick the results of that obsoulete round."


There is no real magic to it just cut back the standard wadcutter load of Bullseye or 231 to whatever velocity you want. The only problem if you go to low is sticking a bullet in the bore, no danger of explosion. About 2 grs of Bullseye should put you in the ball park.

[1894cfan]

How do you make sure you keep the lower ball at the correct depth? I have a few boxes of old Remington Multiball in .38 and .357, and although I don't shoot it much, it is fun to play with sometimes and it would be handy to be able to duplicate them.

Thanks,
Danny[/quote]

If you have a 9MM, try using the sizer die to resize the 38/357 case. It will sqweeze it down enough to keep the first ball from going too deep. HTH

[2X22]

I use something like what you are looking for in your .38/357 in my .44 rifles. A 44 russian case with a 250gr cast and 5grs of Unique is nearly silent and will still exit a 4" alder tree and shoots a 1 hole group at 25 yards. The same bullet with 5.5grs Unique and 6grs Unique in the 44 special and magnum case respectively is its equal in all respects.

I don't know why you can't do the same basic thing in your rifle with the same results.

2x22

[Rifleman336]

I'd say that your best bet would be to use some low performing, bulky powder to take up the volume in the case. CASS shooters do that all the time and many use IMR Trail Boss powder to achieve good case density but low velocities.

Is the Trail Boss powder where the grains of powder are shaped like little dougnuts? It's made in Australia I think???? If it is thats one I want to add to my powder arsenal. Thanks COSteve !!

Rifleman 336

[revolvergeek]

Very interesting discussion. Thanks for the suggestions! I am going to have to play some soon and see what I can cook up.