33 WCF cases from 45-70

[33wcfshooter]

I just started forming 33 WCF brass from 45-70 cases and ran into a big problem they won't chamber.The brass is new unprimed remington 45-70 and the dies are rcbs and I even doubled up by running them through both rcbs and lee resize dies after forming.The case chambers fine but the action won't close. I've been using 33 WCF new brass from Quality Cartridge Co. and it works great but I did have hard chambering with Bertram cases.I know snooky williamson in Winchester Levergun Legacy tells about having to thin 348 rims for his 50 wcf because headspace was tight. Has anyone had this problem with reforming 45-70's?Thanks in advance for any information.

[Hawkeye2]

My father hunted with an 86 in .33 from the late 40's till the gun got too heavy for him to carry. Durring that time (late 60s?) he ran out of factory ammo and picked up a couple of boxes from a commercial reloader who had formed them from .45-70 brass. Almost every one split when fired but did the job with no problem. I knew someone who formed some cases from .45-70s years ago for his 86 and he didn't anneal them but he did take them down in two steps. If I remember right he ran them into a .40-65 die before going to the .33 die and he never had any trouble at all. Probably none of that has any bearing on your problem, I just tend to run on at times.
Have you checked the case length after you reworked them? They could have grown. Check the rim thickness also. It doesn't sound like a problem with your gun.

[Buck Elliott]

You may have to trim the cases after sizing, as necking down will lengthen the case. All that displaced brass has to go somewhere... Case necks may also be thickened, expanding beyond chamber limits when bullets are seated.

[jorgy]

I have made 33 cases from 45-70 brass(I use winchester brass easy
to rework. don't try starline). I run them thru 40-65 dies first & then
the 33 dies & trim to proper length. I not experienced any problems
with chambering. you may have a tight chamber. I use imperial sizing
die wax when I reform brass. A little goes a long way & a lot easier on your arms. It makes a lot of difference what brass you use. Winchester has the thinnest wall & is the easiest to rework. Starline
& Federal have thick walls & are very hard to reform. This could be
part of your problem.

[fordwannabe]

I also reform 45-70 brass for my 33wcf and I only use winchester cases. I had to trim them the first time(I am still waiting on lee to send me my custom trimmer and FCD I ordered in August)but I haven't had any problems after that. Tom

[Last Spike]

My .33 WCF case forming setup is the same as the original posters - running Remington 45-70 brass through the RCBS case forming dies (all the way to the base before the rim), trim, anneal case necks, then run through either Redding or Lee resizing dies as part the handloading process. I do not inside trim the case necks of my newly formed .33 WCF brass. My handloads using Hornady's 200 grain jacketed bullet chamber without any problems. Headspace has been checked in my 1886 and is good. Brass measurements have been checked and are within specs.

[Mike D.]

I have a RCBS .33 WCF case forming die and often use Starline brass without problems. Admittedly, Winchester and Remington brass works easier, but if you run the Starline through the die s-l-o-w-l-y it works just fine. Not too much lube, either, it causes denting of the shoulder. Always trim to length, 2.105" max. Anneal and load. Clean all lube from the cartridges after loading. My .33 Winchesters will all chamber, fire, and extract this brass without a problem.

[33wcfshooter]

I took the rifle to a gunsmith friend this morning and re checked the headspace and it's fine. But it does turn out that the headspace is tight at min. specs. I have no problem with brass from Quality Cartridge Co. so I guess it's worth the extra $$ because I don't want to mess with opening it up(have the tight headspace and not have to worry about case seperations).Modern 45-70 case rims are a little thicker then the old 33 WCF brass I've measured and with the min. headspace on my '86 I guess this is the problem . I've heard the rim thickness has caused problems with people forming 45-60's for the new '76 replicas also.

[Sixgun]

I must have formed over a thousand 33 cases from all brands, including the real thick (from the seventies) Norma .45 basic brass. Never a problem. Never annealed. You have to trim.

I use a RCBS case forming set which incrementently sizes them down. As you know, the .33 case is tapered and the 45-70 is straight wall and what I think is happening is the base of your case (just ahead of rim) is not being sized/tapered enough. This is most likely due to you having a maximum tolerence 45-70 sizing die coupled with a minimum spec .33 chamber. Case forming dies are minimum spec and you might have to resort to paying the big bucks for a set. ...........................bummer

If you want to see if that is the problem, go and form out a case, trim it to proper length, load it without powder and primer, then chuck the dummy in a drill press (or regular drill). Turn on the drill and hold a file at the web and trim off a few thousandths. Use a micrometer and be precise. I bet my 86 against yours it will work.

We all know the .219 Zipper case is based on the grand 'ole 30-30 (or 38-55) My .219 sizing die I had would not squeeze down that last couple of thousandths of an inch on the base. I bought the proper case forming set and presto!, they worked. -----------------------Sixgun