OT Pre 64 Winchester model 70 question

[pharmseller]

So there's a pre-64 model 70 Winchester in .30-06 for sale on another forum. The seller says all original but it has a honeycomb recoil pad with a white spacer, along with sling swivels.
It is my understanding that model 70s came with steel buttplates a la my model 71.
Plus, the stock near the front of the action looks funny to me.

So the question: is this rifle:
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=282201

all original?


P

[CEMENTHEAD]

Broken link......Thanks, Tom

[cshold]

Here are two that are pre 64 that have a rubber recoil pad.
If not original, they are very well done.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =149776894
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =150354218

[TedH]

As far as I know the original Winchester pads were solid red rubber with "Winchester" on the back, or steel. My 375 H&H has a solid red pad and if any of them needed a honeycomb pad I'd think they would have used it on the 375. I'm not an expert, but I'd say it's not original.

[Pete44ru]

The link referenced needs membership/login to view, and since I declined to do so cannot comment directly.

It's easy enough for you to right click on the pic(s), select "properties" and copy the url to paste athe pic here, bracketed by the "img" & "/img" codes - so we all may view it.

AFAIK, the African model 70's were the only ones issued with honeycomb-type recoil pads.

With ANY aftermarket pad installation on a prospective purchase, the possible buyer needs to perform due dilligence by determining the LOP, to find out if the stock wood was cut/shortened for the pad (usually over 1" thick).
If it was, removing the thick pad and replacing it with a thin red pad or metal BP wight make the LOP too short for many shooter to use - unless the rifle was intended to be used in cold weather, when thich hunting clothing would be worn.

.

[2ndovc]

Here's a 1947 vintage Model 70 .250-3000 that was my Grandfather's...
Steel butt plate.



jb

[pharmseller]

Sorry for the bad link. All classifieds other than firearms do not need membership to view.
I right clicked the image and did a copy:

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/2140.jpg

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/193.jpg

Let's see if this works.
Do a cut and paste into your browser. Clicking the link did not work.

[TedH]

AFAIK, the African model 70's were the only ones issued with honeycomb-type recoil pads.

Pete, what made one an African model? My 375 has a solid red pad and express sights.

[edsguns]

I've owned several pre '64s and still own a couple. To the best of my knowledge no non-magnum caliber pre '64s were ever made with a rubber recoil pad (except, perhaps in the custom shop). The earlier guns had an inletted metal plates and the newer versions sported a hard plastic butt plate. There were some of each made in some years as well.
Here are some examples:

model 70 later standard rifle with plastic plate:
http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /G667.html

earlier standard rifle with inletted metal plate:
http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H381.html

Featherweight versions had an aluminum buttplate earlier and plastic later:
http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H198.html

http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H402.html

magnum calibers had pads:
http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H358.html

http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H433.html

[1894cfan]

My Grandfather had a pre-64 M70 made in 1941, barrel marked .30 Government 06, that likely came from the factory with the steel butt plate. I don't blame him one little bit for swapping that for one of those butt pads you mentioned. I wouldn't want to shoot a 180gr factory load out of an '06 with a steel butt plate!!

BTW, I've got it now.

[pharmseller]

As far as shooting steel buttplates, my model 71 is nothing but steel and I like it that way.

My concern is I don't want to pony up "all original" dollars if it ain't.

P

[Pete44ru]

pharmseller, IMHO the pad isn't standard issue - BUT it could always have been installed by the Custom Shop via special order.
"All Original" can have more than one meaning.
It needs to be seen if it's the pad Winchester was installing, and not some aftermarket brand - since IIRC all the Custom Shop pads were branded with the Winchester logo.

Ted - Check out edsguns last link, above.

Pre-64 Model 70's were issued with both solid and ventilated (honeycomb) recoil pads.

I don't know if express sights were always standard on the African Model, or if they were added as the standard after initial production started.

African Models are generally heavy-barreled, open-sighted, large bores - like the .375H&H and the .458 Win Mag.
Post-64 Africans were also made in stainless steel and chambered in some newer heavies, AFAIK.

.

[Kansas Ed]

Original "300 Magnum" (early .300 H&H) had metal buttplates with the nipple on top.

Ed

[TedH]

Here's my 1959 vintage 375 H&H with a solid red pad. If the rifle you're looking at has a honeycomb pad, I would at least expect to see the Winchester name on the end of it.

[cshold]

Here's a 1947 vintage Model 70 .250-3000 that was my Grandfather's...
Steel butt plate.



jb

Wow that's a dandy

[2ndovc]

Thanks!

Not a mark on her!

I know he took several Pronghorn with it in WY and tons of woodchucks here
in OH on the family farms.

jb

[Charles]

No question..that pad and spacer did not come from Winchester. That doesn't mean it isn't a fine rifle to own. Three years ago I bought a minty 1954 vintage Winchester 70 (standard 24" bbl) in 30-06 that had an aftermarket pad such as the one to which you refer. I paid $500.00 for it and was glad to get it.

They are fine rifles...get it if the price is reasonable. I should think that pad would lower the price/value a couple of hundred bucks. The price may be just fine now, what is he asking?

[Rimfire McNutjob]

magnum calibers had pads:
http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H358.html

http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H433.html

I'm not sure if you realized this, but the second link you gave in this section has a pad like the one he's talking about and it represented as original on the site you've referred to above. I might expect to see "Winchester" on the end of it as well but there's no picture from that angle to tell in these photos.

[purdy]

I've owned several pre '64s and still own a couple. To the best of my knowledge no non-magnum caliber pre '64s were ever made with a rubber recoil pad (except, perhaps in the custom shop). The earlier guns had an inletted metal plates and the newer versions sported a hard plastic butt plate. There were some of each made in some years as well.
Here are some examples:

model 70 later standard rifle with plastic plate:
http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /G667.html

earlier standard rifle with inletted metal plate:
http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H381.html

Featherweight versions had an aluminum buttplate earlier and plastic later:
http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H198.html

http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H402.html

magnum calibers had pads:
http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H358.html

http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.co ... /H433.html

FYI not all Magnums had pads, the 300H&H for example.