450 Alaskan and model 71 Browning or Winchester

[getitdone1]

How well does the model 71 handle the tremendous power of the 450 Alaskan--over time?

Since that cartridge nearly duplicates the power of a 458 Winchester seems like a bit much for a lever-action to handle.

I'm aware of the special magazine to barrel attachment when the model 71 is converted to the 450 Alaskan. I just can't see how a lever-action--the action itself--can handle this for a significant amount of shooting.

Don McCullough

[Hobie]

Good to see you again Don!

[Rimfire McNutjob]

My shoot around load is the Speer 350 grain JSP (#2478) over 66.0 grains of 3031 for 2150fps. It's more of a push than a heavy slap to the shoulder. That bullet is only about 50 cents so it's good for casual shooting compared to many of the premiums. My barrel is only 20" though. There's room for more zip from a few more inches of barrel. If I were a caster, I could obviously shoot a lot cheaper with a cast gas-checked bullet.

I'm working up some more potent loads this Fall. Probably using the North Fork SS bullets in 350 and 400 grains. Having recently scored a pound of H322, I expect to up the ante somewhat during the Thanksgiving holiday. Hopefully it will be cool enough to spend a day at the outdoor range. I'll let you know if my forend comes flying off ... after I stop crying.

I don't know that you could reach where the .458 Win Mag lands in the Model 71. At least, you can't if you stay at or below the commonly accepted 42,000psi pressure limit of the 71/86 action. I have read in a few places that running up near 50,000psi is acceptable in this action. However, I'm thinking the .458 Win Mag can run up past 60,000psi in any of the bolt guns it's chambered in and those guns are often going to have 24" or 26" barrels as well.

Still, it's probably not unreasonable to be able to make 4500 to 4700 foot-pounds-energy in a Model 71 in .450 Alaskan. My plinker is only making 3600fpe though.

My magazine tube is the 71's 1/2 mag. If it were a full mag as is common on 86's, it would probably suffer more stress under firing. Mine is also a full threaded take-down. I figure I can shoot about as much of my cheap load as I can stand and not really affect the rifle.

My .450 Alaskan cases measure about the same capacity in grains of water as the 45-90 cases that crs measured for his 1886 setup. I believe mine are made from 50-110 basic brass though and would probably hold several more grains had they been made from .348 WCF brass. They are rather thick in the walls near the case head and in fact are rather thick in the neck as I get them. I always have to turn the necks down to build rounds that fall within the proper specification. Perhaps I'll try and fire-form some this Fall from .348 WCF and see if there's a substantial difference.

[NonPCnraRN]

In realistic terms how much more powerful is it than the 450M or hot 45-70? Is your shoulder the limiting factor? I believe a steady diet of any of the 3 would cause your shoulder to give out before the gun did.

[mod71alaska]

Good to see you again Don!

+1

[Mike D.]

Aren't Marlin 336s, aka 1895s, sometimes chambered for the .450AK? If so, there is NO question about the 71 Browning/Winchester action being strong enough to handle it, it is considerably superior than the Marlin. 50K PSI is not too much for the twin locking lug 71/86 action.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Aren't Marlin 336s, aka 1895s, sometimes chambered for the .450AK?

Yes, but the overall cartridge length has to be reduced about 0.2" in those Marlins. Of course, that cuts into your bullet selection and your powder space. Therefore, the .450 Alaskan has an opportunity for high performance in the 71/86. I think 6pt-sitka has a Marlin so chambered but I have seen him on the board lately. I'm not sure if he's developed loads for his gun or not yet.

[Buck Elliott]

I'd pick the '86 over the 71 just because of the locking geometry differences.

[Mike D.]

I'd pick the '86 over the 71 just because of the locking geometry differences.

Excellent point, Buck. The slightly angled lugs of the 71 can allow the action to open under heavy recoil, but not if you have a good grip on the lever. I don't know why Winchester decided to change the design from the straight vertical lugs of the 1886.

[Pistol Mike]

In realistic terms how much more powerful is it than the 450M or hot 45-70? Is your shoulder the limiting factor? I believe a steady diet of any of the 3 would cause your shoulder to give out before the gun did.

I must say that as was suprised with the "mild" recoil of my 7.3 pound Miroku/winchester '86 EL, when i first fired 405grs bullets at 1800fps!
My heavier .375H&H kicks much worse, but if you start pushing that 405grs bullet up too 2100-2200fps things might change.

I'm working up some more potent loads this Fall. Probably using the North Fork SS bullets in 350 and 400 grains. Having recently scored a pound of H322, I expect to up the ante somewhat during the Thanksgiving holiday. Hopefully it will be cool enough to spend a day at the outdoor range. I'll let you know if my forend comes flying off ... after I stop crying.

How's it giong with these "more potent loads" of yours?


Regards Mike

[86er]

I've got 450 gr bullets going 2100 fps in the 1886 with no problem and reasonalble recoil. You're not going to get much more from the 450AK - so I think the action is up to the task.

[Buck Elliott]

Dick Casull used to load his M-71 .450 Alaskan to 2400 fps with 400-gr bulets, and the gun held up fine. Of course, it had been through the Ackley modifications, securing the magazine tube, &c...

[Pistol Mike]

Buck Elliot and 86er... What bullets are you using or could recommend at these higher speeds?
Thought i get some Speer 400grs FNSP for testing, but i don't know if they are too soft for +2000fps speeds
Think Swift A-Frame and Barnes TSX would be tough enough. But the nose is to long on these so they will not cycle in the action of my '86 .45-90 WCF


Regards Mike

[Buck Elliott]

the 400-gr Speer bullet turns into a grenade (close-up...) at those speeds, but shoots very accurately.

CPB 400 - 440-gr. GC cast bullets seem to hold up better, and are extremely accurate too. Don't have any personal experience with any other bullets at that power level.

[86er]

I've used 450 gr Kodiaks, Northforks, Dzombos and Nosler Banded Solids in the 45-90 with H322 to get 2100 fps from a 26" bbl 1886.

[Buck Elliott]

I've used 450 gr Kodiaks, Northforks, Dzombos and Nosler Banded Solids in the 45-90 with H322 to get 2100 fps from a 26" bbl 1886.

Sounds like "Git r Done" loads to me.

What is the twist rate of your barrel?

[Lastmohecken]

zpfile000.jpg

zpfile001.jpg

Here's a couple of pictures of my 1937 Model 71 which was converted to 450 Alaskan, in the late 50's or eairly 60's by Atkinson and Marquart in Arizona. This gun had the orignial barrel rebored and shortened to 20 inches, but also had a full length mag tube added, with a custom heavy duty barrel band fabricated and added to the front. In the other picture you will see that the forend has also been slimmed down or replaced to a thin carbine type forend, but retained the original 71 hanger.

This gun is still tight, I don't know how much it's been shot, but it was sold to me with some original handloads that were pretty old, I believe they were loaded with about 66-67 grains of 3031 and a 350gr jacketed bullet. I did shoot some of them and they are stout. And I have used 300 gr hollowpoints infront of 60 to 66 grs of 3031. I did notice that the old original loads would make the lever sting my hand a little, but extraction was always easy. Still yet, I think I will keep it at a little milder loadings. It shoots great.

I purchased it from Gary Reeder, out of Arizona. I believe he got from the Widow of the orignal owner.

But anyway, that's how some of them were done, back in the day.

[salvo]

Lastmohecken, stop teasing us with those pictures, let see the whole rifle

[tman]

luv the full mag tube

[Mike D.]

If you want to support the full mag tube then all you need is a Browning carbine front barrel band. Fits all the round barrels and the tube diameter is the same.

[Lastmohecken]

Lastmohecken, stop teasing us with those pictures, let see the whole rifle

OK, let me try this again. Posting pictures is a chalenge for me, but I am learning.

450 Alaskan full length.jpg

As you can see, this gun was modified extensively. The pistol grip was modified to a straight grip, and a really good recoil pad has been added, which I like very much.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Nice. I bet that pad IS nice. How many rounds can you get in the full tube?

[Lastmohecken]

Nice. I bet that pad IS nice. How many rounds can you get in the full tube?

If I remember correctly, I think it is six in the tube. Here's a couple of more pictures if I can get them up.

Buttstock.jpg

Forend.jpg

[salvo]

Very nice. That was worth the wait Lastmohecken!

[nemhed]

Lastmohecken, nice rifle, thanks for posting the pics!

[Lastmohecken]

Thanks, fellows. I have yet to bag anything with, but that's not the rifle's fault. I hope to maybe take a hog or two with it one of these days.

[1886]

Harry McGowen has done a number of .450 jobs. I read somewhere, perhaps in Ackley's volumes or Wildcat Cartridges of The World, about the mag. tube and forearm mods. necessary. 1886.