Tang sight or offset scope?

[ab4ka]

My Winchester 94 is a top eject. I'd like to improve the sights on it but am not sure which way to go. I'd love to scope it, but I just can't warm up to the thought of the offset scope mount. I've never seen one in person, and I hate the though of buying one and I don't like it, although the mount isn't that expensive and I could try it with a scope I've got just to see if I like it.

I like the looks of the old-fashioned tang mounted aperture sights but haven't tried one.

I'm not sure which way to go.

[Rusty]

I'm more fond of the Williams type of peep sight that mounts on the side of the receiver myself. We put a tang sight on my son's Rossi and it made the things a little strange to handle after that. Maybe it's just me but that tang sight seemed to be right where my hand wanted to be too.

[ab4ka]

Hmmm...I hadn't thought about hand placement. I'll have to check into that.

[J Miller]

My Winchester 94 is a top eject. I'd like to improve the sights on it but am not sure which way to go. I'd love to scope it, but I just can't warm up to the thought of the offset scope mount. I've never seen one in person, and I hate the though of buying one and I don't like it, although the mount isn't that expensive and I could try it with a scope I've got just to see if I like it.

I like the looks of the old-fashioned tang mounted aperture sights but haven't tried one.

I'm not sure which way to go.

If your 94 is made after about 1952 it is already drilled and tapped for the side mount receiver sights. Put a Williams FP 94/36 or a Lyman 66A sight on it and you're good to go. You don't have to drill any holes and the sight is convenient but out of the way.

Joe

[ab4ka]

I think mine dates to abt 1980 so I'm good

[El Chivo]

I like the tang sights for accuracy and flexibility, I just put one on my hunting gun and liked it fine. I carried it all season, no problems.

I use them for most shooting so I'm more comfortable with them.

[tman]

a tube feed lever is usually a 200 yard max propostion. so a tang sight is right at home.

[Bruce Scott]

This scope side mount from Kwik-Site will also go on using existing screw holes:
http://www.optic-sales.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SS_27047

[ab4ka]

thanks for the link! Another one I saw mounted the scope much further to the left. A local shop has a Weaver mount but I can't figure out how the scope attaches to it just by looking.

[COSteve]

I have both a Marbles tang mounted sight on my 357 Rossi '92:



And a Williams receiver mounted peep sight on my little 22lr Henry:



To be honest, I don't know which I like better because the tang sight puts the aperture right up to your eye thereby giving you a much wider 'depth of field' which allows you to see the front sight nice and clear. It also gives you the maximum sight radius for more accurate shooting. But, it takes a bit of getting use to where you place your thumb while holding it.

On the other hand, the receiver peep sight doesn't interfere with your grip but it does place the aperture a bit farther from your eye. That means that the sight radius is shorter than with a tang sight. The farther away from your eye, the larger the aperture you'll use to see through it which may not give you as great a benefit with your depth of field. So, your front sight might not be as clear as a smaller aperture will give you.

[Bruce Scott]

thanks for the link! Another one I saw mounted the scope much further to the left. A local shop has a Weaver mount but I can't figure out how the scope attaches to it just by looking.

I used one of these with a little fixed 2.5X Leupold scope and was very happy with it. I had to rotate the scope a quarter turn left so that the windage knob was on top to clear the ejection. That takes a little getting used to for adjustments.

[AJMD429]

thanks for the link! Another one I saw mounted the scope much further to the left. A local shop has a Weaver mount but I can't figure out how the scope attaches to it just by looking.

QwikSite or whatever does make one with rings that offset back to the right to be centered over the bore, or at least they did (saw the pic in one of their catalogs).

Still I'd vote for the Williams FP especially if you're already drilled and tapped for it. 'Ghost ring' it by removing the aperture (you can put in back in for bench shooting), and it is fast AND precise - a good shot can cloverleaf or close at 50 yards with such a setup. They're compact and durable, too - you'd have a hard time damaging an FP without doing something so dire it would render the gun itself inoperable anyway.

Tangs are pretty, and have the 'fun' factor, and I have a couple set up with them, but they to 'get in the way' of the un-trained (mine) hand, and have to be flipped up to use and down to not break when rough-handling the gun. They DO give the longest sighting radius, and they are sure favored by many experienced shooters.

I've used the offset scopes on a B-Square setup, and did like it ok, but not more than the Williams FP, unless I really NEEDED that 'twilight' few minutes a scope can give you.

link - plenty of aperture sight pics (scroll down the page) - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=20342

link - the B-Square on a Puma Winnie Clone - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=21511

The Williams FP is sure non-obtrusive - there's a closeup in the top link above on a Puma, and it's also the sight on the Marlin in the middle of this picture:

[rjohns94]

receiver sight!

[cshold]

Here are some pics. That may help you.
Win. 94 made in 1961, Weaver K3-W, Williams side mount.
What I really like about this mount is I can also use the iron sights without removing the scope if I so choose.
Does a Win. 94 look better without glass? Absolutely it does.
This is my favorite go-to deer rifle and it is set up to do just that, deer hunt. I need all the help I can get in the woods, I would not be without that little K3 on the side. It has been worth its weight in gold in helping determine a legal buck from an illegal buck with today’s antler restrictions.

[Pisgah]

Both tang and receiver sights work well for me, so I really have no preference when it comes to them.

Offset scopes present two problems for me:

-- It does something I can ony describe as weird to the balance of the rifle. In my hands, rifles equipped with them seem to take on a perpetual cant. A slight thing but annoying.
-- A top-center mounted scope , as we all realize, is dead-on in windage all the way to extreme range, while elevation is dead-on at two ranges; as an example, say, 25 yards and 200 yards. With a bit of practice a shooter can very easily learn to hold proper elevation for a given range. With an offset scope, however, elevation and windage coincide at only one range. Both windage and elevation vary from zero at every other range. So aiming requires mental adjustment taking into account elevation and windage at every range other than your zero range, making such a sight exactly twice as difficult to use as a top-mounted scope.

Some will say that this is easy to compensate for and I would agree, at short ranges. But if all shots are to be at short range, there's really not much reason for a scope.

[adirondakjack]

I use tang sights and like em a lot. Yes they present a bit of a learning curve both in making sure the sight hasn't got bumped from vertical (it becomes second nature to check it), and thumb placement. I shoot CAS, so have learned to park my thumb alongside the hammer, and NOT loop it over the tang.

The good news is, as above, they offer the best sight radius and "instant" centering of the eye in the circle for fast acquisition of a sight picture, and a bit of diopter effect, helping make the front sight crisp.

One option is a tang sight in tandem with a fold-down rear semi-buckhorn sight serving as a backup in case something happens to the tang sight. I set my "hunting" 1894 Marlin up that way out of concern I might damage the tang sight and be out of luck, but haven't needed to go to the backup YET.

[AJMD429]

On the 'tang with backup' option, consider the fold-down 'Ruger Ranch-Rifle' peep as a barrel-mounted backup. It actually is a nice sight; use with both eyes open if you want.

This is a pic of the sight as backup for a scope, but same setup works for tang sights.



Here's the sight itself:



MidwayUSA $14.29 - hard to beat that price! - http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=186476

[Don McDowell]

I think tang sights are best reserved for target shooting.
The reciever sights are alright but they do bulk up the reciever a bit, and take away from the nice handling characteristics of the 94, and unless you're doing alot of shooting where you need to change windage and elevation quite frequently I don't think they're the best answer on a hunting gun either.
For a hunting rifle and a good deal of target type shooting I'm a pretty big fan of the One Ragged Hole sight. http://www.oneraggedhole.com

[AJMD429]

With an offset scope, however, elevation and windage coincide at only one range. Both windage and elevation vary from zero at every other range. So aiming requires mental adjustment taking into account elevation and windage at every range other than your zero range, making such a sight exactly twice as difficult to use as a top-mounted scope. Some will say that this is easy to compensate for and I would agree, at short ranges. But if all shots are to be at short range, there's really not much reason for a scope.

The solution for this is the same one I use if there is a side-mount laser on a firearm; realize that it is AT MOST, 1" offset to the side, and sight in at the chosen distance with that taken into account.

In other words, if your scope is 3/4" to the left of bore, DON'T sight in 'dead on' at 100 yards, or you'll be hitting 3/4" to the OTHER side at 200 yards (and with ME shooting, I'll never notice 3/4" at 200 yd... ), and 1-1/2" to the right at 300 yards.

Sight in so that the bullet (like the bore) is 3/4" to the right of the crosshairs, and other than the fact that you'll be (only) 3/4" to the right at every distance from 10 yards to 1,000 yards, there is NO difference from a centered-over-bore scope.

[ab4ka]

Thanks for the input, everyone!

Casastahle, those pics are exactly what I've been looking for. I may end up with both...I really like the tang sight for target shooting (it may sound odd to target shoot with a .30-30, but I got enough ammo with my rifle and I can do a little plinking with it), but I want glass on it if it ever goes into the woods on a serious trip.

[El Chivo]

one consideration with installing tang sights on my 336 is, I can mount a Weaver rail on the receiver and still use the tang sight.

Then with Weaver quick-detach rings I can mount a scope, say, for hunting season, and remove it for the rest of the time. Or perhaps mount the scope in early AM and remove it in daylight.

Haven't done it yet, but, it leaves some flexibility you won't get with a receiver sight.

I think tang sights are fine for hunting - leave it on the 100 yard setting for unexpected shots, then be ready to click up 3 or 6 if you see something on a distant ridge. Easy to do if you are sitting in a stand or other vantage point. I have click-yard markings on a wide rubber band wrapped around my stock, for easy reference.

What I like about the tang sight is, you sight on the target, you don't do Kentucky Windage. I think it's more exact to put the crosshairs right on the target rather than somewhere in the air above it.

[cshold]

Thanks for the input, everyone!

Casastahle, those pics are exactly what I've been looking for. I may end up with both...I really like the tang sight for target shooting (it may sound odd to target shoot with a .30-30, but I got enough ammo with my rifle and I can do a little plinking with it), but I want glass on it if it ever goes into the woods on a serious trip.

No problem ab4ka, I enjoy posting pictures of my toys.
Glass topping a 94 is not a cardinal sin, as some seem to think it is.

[Hanzerik]

Just changed the sights of my 16" .44Mag Puma last night. Might get a chance to go sight it in later today. Also changed out the sights of my 20" Puma last night; Marbles front, rear, and Tang.

[Pete44ru]

My 1978 Model 94 top-eject .30-30 Trapper 16" did absolutely OK this week on an eating-size Maine buck, at about 65yds, using a side-mounted receiver peep sight, and a FO front sight bead.

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