Medium/Lite 250 gr. Keith loads in 444?

[C. Cash]

Hello to the fire!

I have been ruminating these past few weeks about my Win. Big Bore in 444 Marlin. I am on the fence about this gun as I just do not like heavy recoil, and I have a brand new 356 Win. barrel just screaming at me to put on the gun in place of the 444. The 356 Win. is quite manageable for me and I already load for it. But before I do, I would like to try some moderate/light 444 loads and see if I change my mind. Thinking about cooking up some loads for the 250 gr. Keith bullet that shoot more like a 44 Mag. Any thoughts? I reckon I would have to seat the bullet deep, over the front drive band so that it will chamber. Any thoughts on powders? I've always liked the somewhat slower, case filling powders in the 356 Win. but not sure what would be reasonable for reduced power in 444. 1400-1600 fps sound about right for non-gas checked Keiths....not stomper loads but not anemic either. I could make up some seperate LBT syle bear stomper loads for camp or bear country if I decide to stay with the 444. Any thoughts on shooting the Keith bullets would be appreciated. The Mt. Baldy 250 Keiths are what I have and use in my Rugers so they are appealing to try in the Winchester.

[Modoc ED]

If you're looking for some loads for the 250gr Keith bullet that shoots more like a .44 Mag in the .444, I'd say buy a .44 Mag rifle and switch out the .444 barrel for the .356 barrel. Maybe it's just me, but I do not find the .444 to be a heavy recoil rifle.

That said, many guys load the 250gr Nosler Partition bullet in the .444 with great results.

Give the .444 a chance. Try a 240gr Speer Gold Dot soft point bullet pushed by 48.2gr of Hodgdon's H-4198. That is a relatively mild load and the Gold Dot SP is a good bullet. It does not fragment as some of the earlier 240gr pistol bullets used to. Mind you, I'm talking about the Speer SP not their HP. I've used that load for everything from jack rabbits right up through deer including hogs and coyotes.

I have no experience with the 250gr Keith bullet so can't comment on it.

[C. Cash]

Thanks Ed. I have not shot a 444 Marlin for over 20 years, so perhaps my remembrance of it is a bit skewed, and I am making a mountain out of a mole hill. Certainly a few loads as you describe won't hurt to try. I am a cast bullet snob so will probably opt for some Cast Performance or Bear Tooth. I notice Paco Kelly mentions the Keith 250 gr. bullets in his 444 articles but would like to get some more detailed info from folks that have shot them.

[76/444]

If you're looking for some loads for the 250gr Keith bullet that shoots more like a .44 Mag in the .444, I'd say buy a .44 Mag rifle and switch out the .444 barrel for the .356 barrel. Maybe it's just me, but I do not find the .444 to be a heavy recoil rifle.

That said, many guys load the 250gr Nosler Partition bullet in the .444 with great results.

Give the .444 a chance. Try a 240gr Speer Gold Dot soft point bullet pushed by 48.2gr of Hodgdon's H-4198. That is a relatively mild load and the Gold Dot SP is a good bullet. It does not fragment as some of the earlier 240gr pistol bullets used to. Mind you, I'm talking about the Speer SP not their HP. I've used that load for everything from jack rabbits right up through deer including hogs and coyotes.

I have no experience with the 250gr Keith bullet so can't comment on it.

Have to agree, ED said everything I wanted too. I shoot factory 265grn. all day with no probs. Maybe a better recoil pad would be the easy way to go? Again, just repeating,... going lighter in bullets is always another option.

[tman]

Hello to the fire!

I have been ruminating these past few weeks about my Win. Big Bore in 444 Marlin. I am on the fence about this gun as I just do not like heavy recoil, and I have a brand new 356 Win. barrel just screaming at me to put on the gun in place of the 444. The 356 Win. is quite manageable for me and I already load for it. But before I do, I would like to try some moderate/light 444 loads and see if I change my mind. Thinking about cooking up some loads for the 250 gr. Keith bullet that shoot more like a 44 Mag. Any thoughts? I reckon I would have to seat the bullet deep, over the front drive band so that it will chamber. Any thoughts on powders? I've always liked the somewhat slower, case filling powders in the 356 Win. but not sure what would be reasonable for reduced power in 444. 1400-1600 fps sound about right for non-gas checked Keiths....not stomper loads but not anemic either. I could make up some seperate LBT syle bear stomper loads for camp or bear country if I decide to stay with the 444. Any thoughts on shooting the Keith bullets would be appreciated. The Mt. Baldy 250 Keiths are what I have and use in my Rugers so they are appealing to try in the Winchester.

i have both a .356 and .444 94 bigbore. have one of each. YOU WON'T REGRET IT.

[C. Cash]

Thank you fellas....very much appreciate the input. I will keep it as is for now and see how it shoots. Range report hopefully will follow soon. Here she is:

[Chuck 100 yd]

WOW !! Nice wood!

[C. Cash]

WOW !! Nice wood!

Thanks Chuck.....Warhawk had the original crack in the mail when the gun was sent to him, and he had it replaced by Midland? The rebounding hammer will go as soon as I can get to it.

[Modoc ED]

Nice looking gun. The wood realy sets it off.

[TDF]

Accurate has some data on their website for XMP 5744 in the 444 marlin. It's in their downloadable reloading guide. I've had good luck making up reduced power loads using this powder in both the 45/70 and 416 Rigby.

TDF

[txpete]

check this out

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... hlight=444

I have not tried them yet plan on doing so.

in the alliant reloaders guide they have data with 2400 on pg 55.
444 MARLIN

speer 240 jsp 25.0 grs 2400 1750 fps 21,900 cup


240 gr LGC 22.0 grs 2400 1725 fps 27,900 cup

reduce these loads by 10% for start charges


RCBS cast book #1

[O.S.O.K.]

Nice Big Bore!

If you find that it recoiles more than your other leverguns - like the .356Win, it may very well be that straight stock. The .356 Win BB that I had kicked noticebly more than the Marlin 336 chambered for .356 Win that I now own - the Marlin has the pistol grip stock...

As to the load - I would suggest the gas checked version of the 250 keith. The plain based types are best kept to 1600 or even 1500 fps or less. You might also consider a WFN type boolit - like the Lee 310 and just keep the velocity down to around 1600 fps or take it up to 1800 - still less than the 2300 fps full-house loads... There's nothing that you can't kill in N.A. with those loads....

This is the boolit I'm referring to: (shown next to a 44 Mag dummy round)



It should feed better than the long-nosed keith design.

Oh, and I would recommend sizing either to .431 or .432" for best accuracy. The lube you see on the above boolit is Lee liquide alox btw.

[C. Cash]

That is exactly what I was looking for....great info on those loads/bullets. I've sure got enough ideas to get me started on this one. A gas check would help fool proof the load for sure. I am now thinking more of the big and slow approach...will give that a try first.

The Winchester stock design off the bench can really rattle your cage. I've learned that you have to sit up or you'll get clobbered and start to flinch. The 444 I shot back in the day was a Marlin and belonged to a friend but I was not accustomed to anything more than than my 30/30 Win. at that point

Many thanks to all of you!

[rimrock]

This site's owner, Paco Kelly has some light charges for the .444 at http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... harges.htm (scroll down to the bone crushers)