I am a firearms anachronism. RANT

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:41 pm

Rant On:

I'm a firearms anachronism. I prefer the old designs or at least those designs that existed before the fall of western civilization.

I hate, as in cannot stand, New Model Rugers. The transfer bar action is wrought with design defects and to me is an abomination. I've owned two, way back in 1977 and they were junk. I'll probably never own another one.

Winchester 94s, 92s, 95s, 86s made with the rebounding hammers and cross bolt / tang safeties are an abomination. I bought one AE before they added the safety and fixed it. I got rid of the rebounding hammer action. But I'll probably never buy another one.

The Rossi or Taurus made 92s with the stupid ignorant widget firing pin lock safety on it is moronic at best, flat out stupid at worst. I'll probably never own one.
This goes for the cute and very fun pump .22. I've had two of the pre safety versions and will buy another one if I ever find one. But I'll never buy one with the screw hammer lock and the widget on it.

Colt SAA copies with the hammer gizmo such as my Uberti made Cattleman, and the two position base pin is another type of idiotic "safety" that I can "fix". In actuality I kind of like that hammer block gizmo as it only functions when I want it to. It does not interfere with the proper use of the gun as the Ruger New Model actions do.

Bolt action rifles without barrel sights. This is a major peeve of mine. I can't go and buy a nice bolt gun any more and then just go shoot it.
I have to spend several hundred more dollars to mount a scope I DON'T want or have a gunsmith I can't find mount the barrel sights.

S&W with the Clinton agreement that's just been swept under the rug and the horrid key lock. You will never see me pay money for a S&W again. At least not one made since they started putting MIM parts and locks on them. Just ain't gonna happen.

Why did I write out this rant? Because there is almost no guns made today that I want to buy.

Between the lawyer inspired after thought key locks, transfer bars, and the bean counter cheapening of literally every brand there is; there is just very few American made guns I want to buy. Virtually nothing really.

It makes me sad. I simply cannot just go and buy one of these new guns and live with the design changes, I've been shooting too long.
I'm not sure what to do. Perhaps I could have a lobotomy and forget my preferences. Then I could maybe accept the junk our manufacturers want to shove down our throats.

It appears as if I'm not the only one too. The prices of the pre-moron guns is rising faster than I can even imagine buying them for. Leaving me to do without or buy the beaters and rejuvenate them. That's not to bad really. Rejuvenating beaters can be fun.

Rant off.

My sincerest apologies if I caused any new gun lovers any emotional distress.

Joe

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:52 pm

YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE, JOSE, NOT BY A LOOOOOOONG WAYS I ASSURE YOU. SOME THINGS I'VE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH, LIKE THE SAFETY ON S&W'S, THE SAFETY ON LEVERGUNS ETC, MOSTLY BY JUST IGNORING THE DANG THING.
THE RUGER NM SIXGUNS ALWAYS DRIVE ME CRAZY BECAUSE I LEARNED THE WAYS OF AN SA SIXGUN ON COLTS AND OM RUGERS. I LOVE TO SHOOT 32 SIXGUNS SO THE RUGER NM SINGLE SIX 32MAG MADE ME DEAL WITH 'EM OR DO WITHOUT; I'D RATHER DEAL WITH 'EM.
ONE RUGER NM I LOVED WAS THE SS BISLEY 5 1/2" 45. IT ENDED UP AT JIM STROHS' PLACE WHERE HE CONVERTED IT TO A HALF COCK GUN THAT WORKS JUST LIKE AN OLD MODEL SIXGUN. ON THE OTHER HAND YOU CAN STILL OPEN THE LOADING GATE AND CHARGE ALL SIX CHAMBERS AND BE ON YOUR WAY IF YOU PLEASE IN TOTAL SAFETY. I LIKE THAT TOO.
YOU ARE ALSO RIGHT ABOUT THE OLDER YOU GET THE MORE THE NEW STUFF PISSES YOU OFF INSTEAD OF EXCITING YOUR INTEREST.
AS SOON AS YOU MOVE WEST EVERYTHING WILL LOOK BETTER TO YOU AGAIN.
AND SO IT GOES...

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:54 pm

It's funny, I'm about the exact oposite. I have 2 ruger's with transfer bars and think they are the greatest handgun safty of all time. Now I can shove in six with no worries what so ever. Much better than a manual safety. My 94AE has the rebounding hammer but no safety. I hated it at first but after some file, spring and hone work I don't mind it in the least. I also like the AE part. I can't stand the looks of a bolt action gun with sights on it. Figure why own or shoot a gun that can do 300 + yards with sights that are only able to do 200 yards with my eyes. And not that good at 200 either. S&W locks? Live with or without. I refuse to own any S&W anyhow. Rossi/Taurus safty is a joke. Look like a piece of plastic glued to the gun. I'd almost rather see a crossbolt or tang "IF" it has to have a safety.

LK

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:04 pm

Maybe it's the Central Illannoy water, or the shameful political condition of this once great state, but older stuff sure seems more appealing. As do the "old days".I do have a newer S-W that I like, I have a Winny 94 with the rebounding hammer that I don't shoot and would probably sell. I have a few AR 15's that I could care less about. Oh well I still have a great life.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:10 pm

OR

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:11 pm

You forgot goodyear grips, black paint, plastic, fiberglass, blond hardwood, saftey manuels wrote on the barrel, floresent long front sights, nylon slings, flashlight rails, laser sights, telescopes on handguns, flash hiders, muzzle brakes, guns with the lines of anvils, gold triggers, and how about that new AR-15 crossbow accessory?

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:14 pm

Well, Joe, I gotta say that for the most part I chafe from the same rash you do. Oh, yes, there are a few modern toys I have become fond of, among them the much praised and condemned Glocks -- not all of them, by any means; but I've become awfully comfortable with my Model 36 .45 for defensive carry.

I salve my itch for the good, old stuff in the pawn shops of our great land. Thick-skinned and hornery as any pawnbroker, and more than willling to bargain with the Devil, I spend some of my most rewarding hours prowling the pawns, the grungier the location the better. If I detailed some of the deals I've negotiated, the Moderators would likely throw me off the forum as a liar.

The GOOD thing about all those plastic, over-safety-ized, newfangled gizmos -- people who go for them tend to sell or trade off some very, very desireable stuff to get their new fancies. And, there are compartively few of us I categorize as more discriminating (or, just too d*****d old and set in our ways). So, the hunting is good.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:17 pm

Joe, my signature line says I'm with you on this.

greyowl · Post by **greyowl** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:20 pm

Mr. Miller, tell us how you really feel, don't hold back.

I can see your point on quality in many products, or the lessening of it. I agree, all rifles should come with a good set of iron sights. Even if most people use a scope, it should be a choice, not a necesity. I always liked shooting the open sights first when I got a new rifle even if it was to get a scope put on it. That is one nice thing about lever rifles, which is all I shoot anymore. They come with open sights standard. I don't mind the cross bolt type safety on lever rifles, but rebounding hammers, well, I'm glad Marlins have half cock hammers. At least on the center fires still. Now that Remington has hold of them who knows what'll happen. Remember, take deep, calming breaths.

. Thanks for the rant, it's good to let it out.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:25 pm

And......... I suppose you also want Brittany Spears to be able to quote Shakespeare too, eh Joe ?

.

crystal river charli · Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:43 pm

Pete44ru wrote:And......... I suppose you also want Brittany Spears to be able to quote Shakespeare too, eh Joe ?

.

What is a Brittany Spears?

Charlie

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:57 pm

A Brittany Spears is a dog that looks good.

Like Britney Spears (below)

.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:06 pm

crystal river charli wrote:
Pete44ru wrote:And......... I suppose you also want Brittany Spears to be able to quote Shakespeare too, eh Joe ?

.
What is a Brittany Spears?

Charlie

Charlie,

Welcome to the forum.

A Brittany is a really neat hunting dog.

A Britney Spears is a blond ( bleached ) gal who was a Mouseketeer and has been turned into a victim by the paparazzi.
Not a bad picture of her though. Can't say as I've ever listened to any of her music.

bogus bill,
I didn't want to overload the forums server, so I had to limit my rant.

Strange thing is, I know how to "fix" most of these new fangled lawyered up guns. But really why should I have to?

Terry, I have a Power Custom half cock action kit for a New Model Ruger in my parts box in case I ever loose control and buy a new one.
It's not the transfer bar so much as it's the stinking lack of half cock that just irritates me to death. Single actions are supposed to have a half cock, removing it like Ruger did is just wrong.

One of these days I'll get all my existing projects finished. Then I'll have to peruse the used gun racks to see if I can find what I'm wanting.

Oh the pain, the pain ................

Joe

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:35 pm

I must be getting old, I don't know which I'd rather take hunting a Brittany Spaniel or Britney Spears

Welcome to the fire Charlie.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:43 pm

Welcome aboard Charlie!

Joe, I'm with you - part way. My overwhelming preference is for older designs. That being said, I do own and shoot some "modern weapons", as they have their place. If I could only have one rifle to defend the homestead with it would be my M1A. Admitting that it wouldn't be a levergun might get me kicked off this forum!

I detest anything "lawyered up". If someone is simply too stupid to handle a firearm hopefully they are just cleaning the gene pool and don't breed before checking out.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:03 pm

YK,

I'm not opposed to military type weapons. M1 Garands, M14s, M16s, M4s those definitely have their place in the world.
I've wanted an M1 Garand for a long time. Kinda like the Colt SAA, maybe someday.

Not all new guns are on my xxit list. Just the old designs that have been messed with.

Joe

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:05 pm

Joe, I have to agree. Not much worse than a beautiful old firearm design that has been mucked up for no good reason!!!

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:43 pm

game keeper wrote:I must be getting old, I don't know which I'd rather take hunting a Brittany Spaniel or Britney Spears

Welcome to the fire Charlie.

The spaniel definitely. At least you'd know she'd enjoy the hunt as much or more than you.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:46 pm

bogus bill wrote:You forgot goodyear grips, black paint, plastic, fiberglass, blond hardwood, saftey manuels wrote on the barrel, floresent long front sights, nylon slings, flashlight rails, laser sights, telescopes on handguns, flash hiders, muzzle brakes, guns with the lines of anvils, gold triggers, and how about that new AR-15 crossbow accessory?

Whattaya got against anvils...? Oh, you mean for GUNS...

Other than that, I reckon the list is just about, pert'near, almost perzackly complete. Sort of...

I make-do, as best I can. I change what can be changed, try to live with what can't be, and pretty much avoid most "new" guns. My Ruger Vaqueros sport Power Custom half-cock actions, and my '86 lost its rebound feature, but retained the safety (for whatever reason...) and my TTN double coach-gun got a slimmer stock configuration. My Beretta/Uberti sixguns have transfer bars, but that is of little negative consequence, and the fancy Taylor's six-shooter lost its "safety" hammer in favor of an original-style hammer from VTI.

I like leverguns, side-hammer double shotguns and single-action revolvers. They (mostly) don't come with rails or slings or lights or muzzle brakes or plastic parts or 'scopes or...

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:56 pm

Joe, I'd hate to be around if you really got on the engine about something

But truth is, everytime I take out my old original 71, long tang deluxe made in 1937, I realize I could do without a lot of the iron I have around here. Seems like those factories of old sure could make some goodies with primitive tools by todays standards, that we still apreciate in a special way.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:22 pm

L_Kilkenny wrote:It's funny, I'm about the exact oposite. I have 2 ruger's with transfer bars and think they are the greatest handgun safty of all time. Now I can shove in six with no worries what so ever. Much better than a manual safety. My 94AE has the rebounding hammer but no safety. I hated it at first but after some file, spring and hone work I don't mind it in the least. I also like the AE part. I can't stand the looks of a bolt action gun with sights on it. Figure why own or shoot a gun that can do 300 + yards with sights that are only able to do 200 yards with my eyes. And not that good at 200 either. S&W locks? Live with or without. I refuse to own any S&W anyhow. Rossi/Taurus safty is a joke. Look like a piece of plastic glued to the gun. I'd almost rather see a crossbolt or tang "IF" it has to have a safety.

LK

Wow - I'm in total agreement with every one of your points, LK. I don't mind the Marlin levergun safety, and in fact kind of appreciate it being there - but the Rossi/Puma ones don't seem positive in either on or off position, and therefore to me are worse than no safety because I don't trust them to stay on OR off.

Mostly it's what you get used to...

bsaride · Post by **bsaride** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:44 pm

I like the older non-lawyered up stuff too.

When I use the lawyered up stuff I forget to bring my lawyer so I just shoot it and handle it the way God intended.

I like Iron on my Iron as well (no scoped rifles here unless you count bro's 10/22 that I don't use).

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:31 pm

My biggest problems with the lawyerd up versions is I was taught and raised on the old original designs. They are ingrained into my mind.
When I try to use the lawyered up guns I have a heck of a time switching back and forth.
The worst is the New Model Rugers and the rebounding hammer lever guns.

So I just ignore the new ones as best I can, very hard considering, and buy the old ones.

Joe

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:37 pm

I agree Joe. We were born in the wrong era I reckon. In most cases, folks continually go looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist. The grass is always greener on the other side, with alot more lawyers over there making sure you don't have too much fun on the grass...might hurt yourself.

I detest the crossbolt on my Big Bore 94, but the proportions/caliber/accuracy kept me on it as my go to rifle. Tycer changed out the rebounding hammer and I am glad of it....now to find a way to cover that nasty crater. Like you, I probably would not buy another with the Cross Bolt. Quality does seem high on my Big Bore and it operates with the boring regularity of a swiss watch. My Ruger Super B. does pretty good with the transfer bar, doesn't bother me as much as the cross bolt issue I guess.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:51 pm

Joe,

You must be cooped up...maybe too long. Need to get out more.

LB

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:54 pm

LeverBob wrote:Joe,

You must be cooped up...maybe too long. Need to get out more.

LB

You got that right!!!!

Joe

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:59 pm

If I didnt have to drive on I-35 we would be driving a Model A Ford. I feel your pain, Joe Miller.

Anachronism? Count me in.

Jeff

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:09 pm

Hillbilly wrote:If I didnt have to drive on I-35 we would be driving a Model A Ford. I feel your pain, Joe Miller.

Anachronism? Count me in.

Jeff

Hillbilly,

Funny you should mention the Model A Ford. Not long after I got here I inherited the job of putting my Uncle's 1927 Chevy 2 door sedan back in running condition.

I was well on the way to completing the task when he died.

I wish I'd been able to get that old car, it was THE most fun car I've ever worked on or driven. And I even had it on the in town freeway at the blistering speed of 55 miles an hour. Wheeeeeeee!!!!!!!

Joe

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:15 pm

BlaineG wrote:

hey, where'd you find my picture?

welcome to walmart, get your s**t and get out.

hey charli, welcome home.

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:14 pm

There are a lot of guns that I’d never have anticipated as liking or even wanting to own. Over time and as I acquired all of the guns I liked and wanted – I found myself only temporarily fulfilled and wound up “opening up” to some of the guns that I’d previously never had a taste for.

I figure that it’s a good thing as I still tend to seek out and purchase older guns – but it’s nice to find enjoyment in owning something new from time to time.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:16 pm

Joe,

I understand your rant entirely --- but i will give a quick counter-point from a somewhat younger perspective(just turned 38)

My join date on this forum signals the point where i even started paying attention to things like "pre-safety vs. post safety", and a myriad of other things more advanced levergunners discuss.

My first levergun was left to me by my dad when he passed (oddly enough, i even bought it for him)---- he had never had a real hunting rifle for as long as i could remember, but had borrowed either his brother's , uncle's or any other centerfire rifle he could get his hands on on the infrequent visits he made to the woods in the fall, but he always told me his idea of the perfect rifle was a Win 30/30. When i was a little older and fresh out of the service, with a little benchrest experience to boot, i decided to buy my dad a new rifle of his very own for Christmas one year (either 1997 or 1998) ---- I wasnt familiar with all the pre-64 stuff and for all i knew, Winchesters always came with receiver safeties, every other firearm i'd ever handled other than a revolver or glock had one.
My dad loved that rifle --- he didnt have it long enough, but his prowess with it was admirable. When he passed, my stepmom graciously gave it back to me, and it wasnt long after that i became a levergun enthusiast and started checking in on this board ---- safeties can be a good thing--- i now have some "pre-safety" rifles because i am a shooter while my dad was a hunter. I love to tinker and he would make a box of cartridges last 3 or 4 years. (The rifle in question was a Ranger AE model from Wally with hardwood stocks --- my dad loved that thing, im not sure whether it was because of the gift factor, or anything else, but he really did love it ----- i guess ignorance is bliss --- the fact that it was a post 64 with a cross bolt safety and Birch furniture did not keep him from limiting out for several years )
Now, the only reason i care about pre-safety guns is the perceived extra value they may carry in the future over a safety gun --- the rebounding hammer thing is not worth me worrying about

And in regard to SAA designs --- i am with you on the Colt clones, but the Ruger, --- i shoot the Blackhawk and love it. A modern firearm should have modern sights, which the BH does. I dont have a Vaquero for this reason

At my age, most of my friends who are enthusiasts think i am a throwback because i prefer revolvers and the 1911 platform to the late model plastic fantastics (although i can see the beauty in the utility of the Glock design) ------- I dont mind ---- i feel in some ways, i am enjoying the old designs i like with some sensible upgrades that make sense today (adjustable sights, safeties when they are useful or unobtrusive)

So i am standing with you on many points, but ignorance is bliss on the others. I like my 94 AE's and Ruger BH--- even though i realize they are not "correct" designs
"V

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:32 pm

BlaineG wrote:

Blaine, if that doesn't work there's always this one.....

crystal river charli · Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:51 am

Thanks for the welcome guys.
I find that the older I get the less I under stand.
So I'll just keep my old Marlins and old revolvers cause
those I understand.

Charlie

Mutt · Post by **Mutt** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:03 am

I just ordered a cross bolt safety replacement kit.

Happy such a thing exists, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,But I really shouldn't have to . My rifle still has it's 1st hammer click safety.
I would never have a rifle without iron sites . Scope or no scope .
But I don't own any scopes . Although a lot of folks like them, I think scopes on a lever action is just ,,,Uhuggggg,,,,,

My 2 cents............Mutt

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:23 pm

C. Cash wrote:I agree Joe. We were born in the wrong era I reckon. In most cases, folks continually go looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist. The grass is always greener on the other side, with alot more lawyers over there making sure you don't have too much fun on the grass...might hurt yourself. I detest the crossbolt on my Big Bore 94, but the proportions/caliber/accuracy kept me on it as my go to rifle. Tycer changed out the rebounding hammer and I am glad of it....now to find a way to cover that nasty crater. Like you, I probably would not buy another with the Cross Bolt. Quality does seem high on my Big Bore and it operates with the boring regularity of a swiss watch. My Ruger Super B. does pretty good with the transfer bar, doesn't bother me as much as the cross bolt issue I guess.

the bigbores were some of the best 94's made. i have a pre crossbolt safety .356, and the ugly, stupid, crossbolt .444. both are built like custom rifles, i hate the dam crossbolt though

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:28 pm

Pete44ru wrote:A Brittany Spears is a dog that looks good.

Like Britney Spears (below)

.

SHE WAS, SO SMOKIN' HOT BACK THEN

86er · Post by **86er** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:41 pm

I find the tang safety on the imported 1886 very useful. The rebounding hammer went out the window immediately. The tang safety allows for extra level of mechanical safety when loading and unloading, particularly with a client that my be unfamiliar with the gun. When the rifle is cocked and ready and something bizarre happens - like a client runs out in front of you - I can quickly flick the tang safety on while moving the muzzle in a safe direction. I could not lower the hammer that instantaneously nor could I even think of touching the hammer while the rifle if pointed anywhere near someone. Most of the other modern jazz I don't care for or have a use for, but that tang safety has been useful to me for my purposes.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:30 pm

86er wrote:I find the tang safety on the imported 1886 very useful. The rebounding hammer went out the window immediately. The tang safety allows for extra level of mechanical safety when loading and unloading, particularly with a client that my be unfamiliar with the gun. When the rifle is cocked and ready and something bizarre happens - like a client runs out in front of you - I can quickly flick the tang safety on while moving the muzzle in a safe direction. I could not lower the hammer that instantaneously nor could I even think of touching the hammer while the rifle if pointed anywhere near someone. Most of the other modern jazz I don't care for or have a use for, but that tang safety has been useful to me for my purposes.

Yup...

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:03 pm

86er wrote:When the rifle is cocked and ready and something bizarre happens - like a client runs out in front of you - I can quickly flick the tang safety on while moving the muzzle in a safe direction. I could not lower the hammer that instantaneously nor could I even think of touching the hammer while the rifle if pointed anywhere near someone.

Well said, I agree..

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:06 am

I have my Nomex long johns on so I will go on record as saying that I like the fiberoptic front sight that came on my Puma in 480 Ruger. I would like a hood with a cut out to let light in to cover it though. The safety should be replaced with a plug tapped for a bolt mounted peep sight. I think maybe a Skinner low profile sight would be able to be mounted there.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:42 am

NonPCnraRN wrote:I have my Nomex long johns on so I will go on record as saying that I like the fiberoptic front sight that came on my Puma in 480 Ruger. I would like a hood with a cut out to let light in to cover it though. The safety should be replaced with a plug tapped for a bolt mounted peep sight. I think maybe a Skinner low profile sight would be able to be mounted there.

NPCRN,
I've seen hoods cut out for light, I "think" Williams makes them, maybe others too.

I also believe both NateKiowaJones and Skinner make sight replacements for the safety widget on the Pumas.

I don't see any reason for Nomex long handles.

Joe

CaptainFinn · Post by **CaptainFinn** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:16 am

Well, I finally went and did it...

Put my last 'Modern' gun (Glock 21) up for sale--towards my Cimarron 1876 SRC fund. (At this rate I'm gonna get that rifle about the time my three-year-old graduates high school...

)

Over the last three years I've found myself gradually gettin rid of my semi-autos and getting more into my revolvers and lever actions. Only Semis I have left are my Ruger 10/22 and my Ruger .44 carbine.

My Rossi 92 1/2 round half octagon .45 Colt outshoots my co-worker's Remington 700 .25-06 (well, I outshoot HIM, anyway. The longest shot he's ever taken--and this is with a massive Leupold Vari-Huh? scope that costs more then my car--is 78 yards.)

I suppose the 'newest' gun I now own is that Ruger .22 and my S & W Model 22 Thunder Ranch. I'm friends with the Police Chief in our town, we swap stories once in a while, and he's about fifteen years older then me. When he saw that Model 22 he was stunned that anyone would still carry a revolver off-duty or as a CCW piece. When I told him sometimes I carry a single-action his eyes grew wide as saucers !

allhands · Post by **allhands** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:42 am

I like your point on iron sights on Bolt guns.....Nothing like being 2 miles from camp and breaking a scope!!!! Especially a Zeiss!!!!!!!!But i still like the security in the unlikely event.....

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:55 am

allhands wrote:I like your point on iron sights on Bolt guns.....Nothing like being 2 miles from camp and breaking a scope!!!! Especially a Zeiss!!!!!!!!But i still like the security in the unlikely event.....

That's one idea. The scope as primary and the iron sights as back up. Unfortunately so many "gunsmiths" can't even understand that. And can't even drill holes straight to put the sights on. So sad.

.....................................................................

I've shot Rugers, Glocks, Browning Hi Powers and others, but when I want a bottom feeder I want a 1911a1 or commercial equivalent. I do not want one of the new breed with the hollow round hammer and the big wide beaver tail grip safety, or lasers, or picanniny rails, or scopes or red dots or green dots or or any of that stuff. I don't want it "dehorned" what ever that means, or melted, or stippled or grooved or checkered, or with groves on the front of the slide.

I just want a 1911a1 or commercial Government Model. I'm an anachronism.

Joe

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:45 pm

I share your feelings toward the new, improved guns. At least there are plenty of good older ones still around even though the prices for some of them have taken the fun out of them. I have to say my New Model 44 Blackhawk is a tolerable gun though

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:33 pm

Dave wrote:I share your feelings toward the new, improved guns. At least there are plenty of good older ones still around even though the prices for some of them have taken the fun out of them. I have to say my New Model 44 Blackhawk is a tolerable gun though

Dave,

Strangely enough the Ruger SBH causes me the worst pain and agony of any .44 Mag revolvers I've ever shot. That square backed trigger guard just pulverizes my knuckles. Bruises, contusions, and even blood leaking once.

So I stay away from them. Vaqueros, and other .44 Mag SAs with round trigger guards don't bother me at all.

However The Ruger .44 Single actions are some of the best, I will not argue that point one bit.

Joe

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:58 pm

Joe...

Ain't it only 'cause you have big 'ole fat hands Pard?

Come on...fess up Hoss...you love the pain...don't you (Heh!).

I do believe you could handle a .475 Linebaugh without too much trouble with those mitts. Or catch fastballs from Nolan Ryan!!

(How do you handle them primers-Heh!) "OOPS, ding dangit!!!! Now where did it go (Heheh)

LeverBubba
(LeverBob's asleep now, so I took over.)

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:28 am

Joe, you irascible old radical....at least you got company

About mid-1993, the folks who manufacture firearms for the US market decided that not unlike Idi Amin, Bill Klinton was going to be President For Life, and that their only means of corporate survival was to add so-called 'safety devices' that do nothing toward correcting a real problem- the unsafe handling of firearms. We began to see idiot buttons on classic lever-action rifles, and eventually that wonderful invention we have come to know as the ‘integral lock’ (hereinafter referred to as “IL”) appeared. It manifested itself as a pimple on the port side of S&W revolvers, and soon after Taurus, Ruger and a few others began sprouting them....

http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2007 ... -more.html

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:53 am

LeverBob wrote:Joe...

Ain't it only 'cause you have big 'ole fat hands Pard?

Come on...fess up Hoss...you love the pain...don't you (Heh!).

I do believe you could handle a .475 Linebaugh without too much trouble with those mitts. Or catch fastballs from Nolan Ryan!!

(How do you handle them primers-Heh!) "OOPS, ding dangit!!!! Now where did it go (Heheh)

LeverBubba
(LeverBob's asleep now, so I took over.)

Phat hands, phat hands???? Really, well my wife says "nah". Pain, I live with it but I sure as h. e. double hocky sticks don't like it.

How do I handle my primers???? Here's my secret..... I use tweezers.

I'm not asleep, just finished a good movie and it's 1:51am. ALmsot time to get up.

Eoj

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:51 am

Sarge wrote:Joe, you irascible old radical....at least you got company

About mid-1993, the folks who manufacture firearms for the US market decided that not unlike Idi Amin, Bill Klinton was going to be President For Life, and that their only means of corporate survival was to add so-called 'safety devices' that do nothing toward correcting a real problem- the unsafe handling of firearms. We began to see idiot buttons on classic lever-action rifles, and eventually that wonderful invention we have come to know as the ‘integral lock’ (hereinafter referred to as “IL”) appeared. It manifested itself as a pimple on the port side of S&W revolvers, and soon after Taurus, Ruger and a few others began sprouting them....
http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2007 ... -more.html

Sarge,

I read that entire post on your blog. For a moment I thought I had written parts of it. In many forums I have said the exact same things you've posted there. And been flamed for them. Well, I still do not and will not own a gun with any internal locking device (IL). Unfortunately there are more IL apologists than people with backbones enough to refuse to buy them. Sorry to say but true.
I left a comment on your blog.
Good work on that post, I liked it.

Joe