The defensive levergun

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:53 pm

Steve Collins wrote:My main 'go-to' rifle these days is an AK with a folding stock and a bag with four mags along with it. Rides with me most days, and I know if a fight comes, I'd rather have that than just about anything else. I won't purposely hamstring myself if I don't have to.

That being said, if I'm heading to the woods (where I've been more and more lately,) I'll just as easily grab my Winchester Wrangler .44 Magnum. I'm not too worried about the 2 legged critters as I am about the 4 legged. Lots of black bear where I go, and I can carry the same ammo for my 4" model 29.

Either one will do, but it is 2009, not 1909...

A very reasonable response, from someone who has been to some very interesting places, and met some very interesting people.

oklahoma red · Post by **oklahoma red** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:15 pm

Good afternoon to you all,
just had mine refered to as a "cowboy assault rifle" at the range.

Puma 92 Carbine with plastic stocks
Nine rounds of hot 180hp, 357s
Nine more on the stock
Red Dot sight

Yup, it 'll do.
Happy shootin' to you all,
OkR

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:13 pm

OK, how did you mount that sight? I needs ta know...

My only real concern is how the higher velocity affects the bullets. I've clocked the 158 gr Hydrashoks at 1800 fps and I'm not sure if they will behave properly at that velocity.

No kidding. One possible solution is to load the cartridge light, or even use reloads in .38 Spl. (or some even shorter cartridge? What is it, .38 Long Colt?) Anyway, then the bullet will be within its design range.

I'm in an area where using reloads for self defense is not a problem.

I used to keep my .357 SS Rossi (with 16" barrel) in the car. I may have to get back into that habit.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:06 pm

Regular factory 357 silvertips, etc will be just fine out of the rifle. they work BETTER than in handguns, where expansion is often iffy.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:18 pm

Well, i bought a pre-safety 1894 .44 Mag for just this purpose ---- my particular rifle has plagued me with the dreaded "Marlin Jam" on 2 different occasions, so i may never trust it again ---- But in theory, a 16" barreled carbine with 8 rounds of .44 Magnum likely has more to offer than i will need.

Now the Marlin is at my gun smith's (again) and i have a Winnie .45 Colt Trapper in transit to me. I hope the reliability of the Trapper is a bit better than the Marlin, --- i like having a "normal" looking firearm for this purpose if it delivers., plus i wanted a companion for my .45 Blackhawk
Until they prove themselves, my little lever carbines are shelved in favor of my AR --- which never fails to go bang (for that matter, neither do my full length 30/30's or my Guide Gun, but i dont use them for HD because of capacity)

oklahoma red · Post by **oklahoma red** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:20 pm

Good evening to ya PaulB,
The mount is a Taurus factory mount for one of their 22 pump rifles. Taurus' web site shows the mount and gives the part # (I think I purchased it from Cheaper-than-dirt, or Natchez.). It has a press-in threaded nut that you insert into the rear sight dovetail. Because my barrel had more taper than the 22 barrel, I had to lap the base in slightly to get the rear to sit flush. But after that, I just attached the rail, then the dot. I've fired over 250 rounds of "Too Hot" 357s so far and it hasn't even tried to move off zero. Those 250+ rounds included 6 hunting trips and a three-gun match, so I don't think its goin' any where. The optic is a Millett 1" with a 3MOA dot, so its pretty good out to 100yds too.

Good shootin' to ya,
OkR

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:51 am

If I have to use any firearm for defense I want it to be the one I'm most familiar with. Since I've shot and carried the Marlins in .41 and .357 mag the most,it would be one of those two. I've had the .41 longer and it's been reliable through thick and thin so it gets the nod most of the time. I've never felt under gunned with it at all. I just got back from 11 days in the woods and it was on the job the whole time,didn't need it's services but it was nice to know it was there if needed. The .357 stayed home and was ready for use if my wife needed it.

cowboy-32/20 · Post by **cowboy-32/20** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:09 pm

beside my bed reisdes a Winny 16" Trapper in .45 Colt with XS ghost ring and buttstock shellholder. fastened to side of bed is holster holding S&W 625 mountain in .45 Colt.

I shoot Cowboy action and own 4 Ruger Vaqueros and a Blackhawk in .45 Colt.
Own other calibers in both single-action and levers, but LOVE .45 Colt.
Sometimes carry Bond Derringer in you guessed it. .45 Colt

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:44 am

I always thought that the Ruger 96/22 Magnum would be a great defense gun, quickly loaded,and seeing what the 40gr JHP's at 1900fps do to sealed cans of food and water filled plastic bottles and with the 9 shot clips will let you get to a better weapon if needed.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:01 am

I own five Marlin centerfires, from .357 up to .45-70.
The .357, .44 Mag, and .30-30 have all been cut back to 16 inches, with varying degrees of custom work done to them.
The .45 Colt Marlin is a 24-inch Cowboy version that won't be shortened.
The .45-70 has had sights replaced & internal parts upgraded along with a better recoil pad.

Jim Brockman in Idaho does excellent work on the Marlin leverguns, including sights & other modifications. He understands the Marlin Jam & addresses it.
The .44 & .30-30 were addressed, the .357, .45 Colt, and .45-70 will all be going to him eventually for more work in that area & others.
I can highly recommend him.

Something else to consider in line with using the Marlins as defensive artillery is installing the Wild West Guns trigger, ejector, and alloy magazine follower.
Marlins are good as they come, but there's room for improvement.

Denis

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:07 pm

I love double=bareled shotguns better than any other type.

However, SXS doubles suffer the same short coming as derringers. i.e. two doses of medicine, even 12 gauge 00 buck, ain't a lot of treatment for any ill.

When I need a shotgun for things that go bump in the night, I reach for a Mosssberg M-500 pumpgun. I reserve the doubles for bird hunting and busting claybirds.

I recall hearing about a fellow who tried to rob a floating stuff game in Chicago with a double-barreled shotgun. The guy jumped up on a table and cut loose with one barrel into the ceiling just to get everybody's attention. He so enjoyed the effect it had on the crowd that he cut loose with the other barrel.

Just about the time he realized that he was standing there with an empty gun, the crowd came to the same conclusion. According to the story, the would-be robber was the most grateful person the cops had ever arrested when they arrived. The crowd was in the midst of doing a fandango on his carcass when the cops arrived to haul they guy away.

a357lever · Post by **a357lever** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:55 am

357 hands down best bullets ever made for human anatomy less recoil, flash 140 hp, or 158 hollow point standard loads even hot 38 with 125 = 357 6" 97 % one shot stopper. my two cents

Hank Dodge · Post by **Hank Dodge** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:10 pm

I've got a Winchester '94 Trapper in .44 mag that has become my "truck gun". It is quick handling and reliable to a fault. I like that I can carry an assortment of different rounds that will handle a variety of needs. I also like that it has a "Cowboy" look to it rather than anything more "tacticool" in nature. It just looks natural laying across the tailgate or leaning against a tree when a neighbor or someone passes by.

I've got a Uberti '73 in .44 special that I use as a main match rifle in SASS shoots. Now that bugger is a shootin' machine!! It's got the 24" octagon barrel and a really slick action job on it. If I ever had a riot at my door, I'd load that puppy up with fifteen and let fly. Anyone that needs to put down a field of fire greater than fifteen successive 240 grain slugs needs to find a different place to be........

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:27 am

KentuckyLevrgunr wrote:I just picked up a copy of Shooting Times and I saw an interesting article stating a levergun makes a good defensive weapon. The funny thing is that I just bought my first 94 carbine in 30-30 (I already had a 9422 mag and a 94 Legacy 44 mag) for that very purpose about 3 days before I saw the article. So anyhow, I plan to install a receiver sight and pretty well call it finished, but what to you consider to be the ideal defensive levergun?

Are we defending against unarmored or armored personnel? LEO's these days like the look of armor as they crash through doors.

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:53 am

DBW wrote:
KentuckyLevrgunr wrote:I just picked up a copy of Shooting Times and I saw an interesting article stating a levergun makes a good defensive weapon. The funny thing is that I just bought my first 94 carbine in 30-30 (I already had a 9422 mag and a 94 Legacy 44 mag) for that very purpose about 3 days before I saw the article. So anyhow, I plan to install a receiver sight and pretty well call it finished, but what to you consider to be the ideal defensive levergun?
Are we defending against unarmored or armored personnel? LEO's these days like the look of armor as they crash through doors.

I am not so sure that talk of shooting LEOs is polite conversation. Is that what you mean?

Let's please keep this talk on topic, which is defensive leverguns. Felons can indeed wear armor, or take cover behind/within vehicles, or hide behind other items.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:00 am

Rexster wrote:
DBW wrote:
KentuckyLevrgunr wrote:I just picked up a copy of Shooting Times and I saw an interesting article stating a levergun makes a good defensive weapon. The funny thing is that I just bought my first 94 carbine in 30-30 (I already had a 9422 mag and a 94 Legacy 44 mag) for that very purpose about 3 days before I saw the article. So anyhow, I plan to install a receiver sight and pretty well call it finished, but what to you consider to be the ideal defensive levergun?
Are we defending against unarmored or armored personnel? LEO's these days like the look of armor as they crash through doors.
I am not so sure that talk of shooting LEOs is polite conversation.

Is jack booted thugs a better adjective? Need all pertinent information in order to provide the best recommendation. Just saying.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:05 am

Look guys, let it go. The armored/unarmored thing could be important and not have anything to do with LEOs/police officers.

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:31 am

Penetration of hard cover is indeed a valid consideration. One reason I like my BLRs, in .308, is that it will nail bad guys who are hiding behind a variety of things that might stop a handgun cartridge.

In a scenario with bad guys dressed up like the felons who committed the infamous North Hollywood bank robbery, rifles firing "real" rifle rounds would be indicated, as rifles firing handgun bullets would have to be aimed more carefully, at unarmored points of the anatomy. The same cartridges that are good for penetrating hard cover are also good for penetrating "soft" body armor.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:17 am

I agree. While most people are unaware, because of my former profession and current business I'm well aware of some gangs (MS13, La Eme, Nortenos, Latin Kings, etc) who are now wearing soft armor and conducting trained "raids". Not the one guy with a zip gun robbing your flatscreen, but three-to-six guys in a coordinated team, generally well armed and after a specific objective. Typically, they're after other gangs (robbing money and drugs from midlevel dealers, etc) but will also go after jewelrey dealers and some other places where the money vs the time to get it is worth it. Mistake hits have happened (not just by SWAT teams....not everyone reads the address right).

Realistically if an armored hit squad comes for you, any one man is screwed. I spent the last three years clearing buildings WITH a team and even with a 2 or 4 man fireteam it's easy to get "stuck" and not have enough guns for all the angles. A shotgun won't do much against an armored target, a 'real' (.30-30 or better in a levergun) rifle round will certainly do the trick against soft armor but the six or so rounds means you may bring a few with you, but you're going down if they're committed to continuing the assault.

A couple weeks ago two house robbers with shotguns were repelled by a former cop with a pistol. Lack of bravery on their part, since with coordination, they could have taken him down. Even one guy with a modern magazine fed rifle (AR, AK, etc) can easily get overwhelmed by multiple opponents in any close combat scenario. I've played the bad guys in exercises and surprise and knowing the ground can be major factors (once I got 3 out of the 4 guys in a fireteam, whcih sucked for them but meant I still "died" as the bad guy they were searching for.)

A levergun in a serious rifle caliber does best in the open at medium to long ranges. A rifleman can maneuver and fire individual aimed rounds and evade counterfire. At room to room distances, lacking quick change magazines will get you.....topping off every couple of rounds can be done, but it's not easy or fast against multiple opponents.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:24 am

I seriously doubt anyone wearing body armor and shot with a 30-30 or full load .44 mag from a carbine at short range is going to be much of a threat for at least a few minutes. If the round impacts in the vicinity of the heart, it will probably stop there heart from the Impact and be just as lethal unless CPR is initiated. STOP DRILLS typically consist of 2 shots torso and 1 in the head. That should take care of any man walking provided you do your part. As pointed out above MULTIPLE ASSAILANTS do tend to be your worst enemy especially if they are trained to SHOOT MOVE AND COMMUNICATE! I would rather fight that was WELL ARMED than an enemy that was WELL TRAINED!

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:30 am

There was a shooting several years back on the East coast against an armored opponent where a cop shot the bad guy with soft armor in the chest using a standard 12ga slug. The guy paused shooting for a second then kept going so he shot him again in the head.

He suffered some chest trauma but didn't break any bones or appreciably slow him.

A .30-30 will sail right through soft armor and do serious damage. As the owner of Second Chance has proven, a .44 Mag can stun you, that's about it.

A friend took a pair of 7.62X39's to the chest plate in Iraq and while it made him stumble, he didn't know he was hit till he looked down. Anyone wearing hard plates with soft armor is essentially invulnerable in that area to anything short of .30-06 or larger rounds, or armor piercing ammo. Current US issue plates are rated for up to 7.62X54mm except at close range, and 7.62X39 at about 3 feet.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:34 pm

MrMurphy wrote:There was a shooting several years back on the East coast against an armored opponent where a cop shot the bad guy with soft armor in the chest using a standard 12ga slug. The guy paused shooting for a second then kept going so he shot him again in the head.

He suffered some chest trauma but didn't break any bones or appreciably slow him.

A .30-30 will sail right through soft armor and do serious damage. As the owner of Second Chance has proven, a .44 Mag can stun you, that's about it.

A friend took a pair of 7.62X39's to the chest plate in Iraq and while it made him stumble, he didn't know he was hit till he looked down. Anyone wearing hard plates with soft armor is essentially invulnerable in that area to anything short of .30-06 or larger rounds, or armor piercing ammo. Current US issue plates are rated for up to 7.62X54mm except at close range, and 7.62X39 at about 3 feet.

Its been a bit over a year, but I have done testing with SAPPI Plates in the past. I routinely pentrated the SAPPI Plates with 7.62 x 54, .308, and 12 ga at approx 25 yards. My 30-30 and .44 would both come close on the first shot but required a 2nd shot for complete penetration. I think that would be different if those rounds had been FMJ or a PREMIUM bullet not designed for expansion in thin skin animals.

As far as stunning the enemy, thats my point exactly. DOnt be satisfied with a hit! Keep shooting until they are down for the count.

RANisbet · Post by **RANisbet** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:10 pm

Surprises me that nobody mentioned a lever shotgun.
In the home, buckshot or birdshot will put most prowlers to route and if need be, a slug at 5 or 10 or even 30 feet will stop just about anything.
Only shortfall might be the bulkiness of most of the lever shotguns.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:19 pm

Were those the older ceramic SAPIs or the newer steel ESAPI plates? (That's what I was referring to).

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:08 pm

KentuckyLevrgunr wrote:I just picked up a copy of Shooting Times and I saw an interesting article stating a levergun makes a good defensive weapon.

what to you consider to be the ideal defensive levergun?

I also take “Shooting Times” and saw the same article just days after starting my “defensive levergun project”. I went with the 1895 SBL in .45-70 so that I could magically turn cover into mere concealment..

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk44 ... rlins2.jpg

The sight is an Aimpoint Comp ML3 (2-MOA dot) in a LaRue RAS II QD mount. The sight is removable in seconds. I plan to move it forwards when I get a little more cash, and buy a second RAS II mount and put a 3x magnifier behind the Aimpoint. Hopefully I can find a “flip-out” mount for the magnifier, but so far haven’t seen one in RAS II height. My main reason for going RAS II was to keep the sight down as close to the bore as possible.

For a final finish, I really like the black and gray laminate, and am looking at CeraKoat in probably a flat medium-dark gray to tone down the shine of the stainless.

I already have a Winchester (Miroku) 1886 takedown, so this rifle is kind of a radical departure from the 1886 and makes for a nice contrasting companion.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:50 pm

I havent had the pleasure of playing around with the newer ESAPI plates. These plates were the OLDER Ceramic.

SLICK

Definately a nice .45-70! I would imagine it would reduce anything someone suspected of being COVER to mere CONCEALMENT pretty quick.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:53 pm

RANisbet wrote:Surprises me that nobody mentioned a lever shotgun.
In the home, buckshot or birdshot will put most prowlers to route and if need be, a slug at 5 or 10 or even 30 feet will stop just about anything.
Only shortfall might be the bulkiness of most of the lever shotguns.

I like the looks, but I have heard they can be finiky on feeding. I prefer my shotguns to be a nice pump. The MOSSBERG 590 would be my preference.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:42 pm

I had the original SAPIs in 2005/6, they upgraded across the board early 2007.

I agree on the lever shotguns. They look cool, but #1 finding a usable one new.... and #2 loading....problems.

scarville · Post by **scarville** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:05 pm

Out of curiosity I wrote to Federal asking about the performance 158 gr hydrashok from a rifle barrel:

My question is how will the 158 gr hydrashok in 357 magnum perform at
the higher velocities from a rifle?

I recently chronographed the Federal hydrashok ammunition from a Marlin
lever action at about 1850 fps. The round was very consistent and
accurate which makes it a candidate for a general purpose load except
that the higher velocity might cause over penetration or separation of
the core and the jacket

Here is the response.

Greetings,

We have tested this round through rifle barrel and it has performed very
well. Our Barnes expander may be a better choice in the 140gr and has
better weight retention than the hydra-shok.

Bronco · Post by **Bronco** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:20 pm

Howdy,

Since my last post on this topic I have had the opportunity to shoot a lever shot gun in 12 gage. It was broke in and not that bad! While I am not a good skeet shooter there was another friend who could hit doubles regularly with it. I know that when comparing 12 gage slugs to 444's the paper ballistics have been posted here favor the 444. But I beg to differ that as a defensive piece with 00 buck, the lever shotgun is something superior!

John

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:43 pm

I live in a small town in Central Illinois. The perfect defensive levergun for me is the 357. It also compliments my 8 shot 627 very well.

rusty gunns · Post by **rusty gunns** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:23 pm

I'd have to say a short barreled lever gun in 45 colt. With a 250 gr rnfp or swc standard velocity slug.

Its easy to shoot, wont pass through the miscreant and kill the neighbor's dog, less recoil for time on target for follow up shots. and with a 45 ...

"If you hit him, he will fall."

As far as "When the poop hits the fan" my Ruger 10/22 is just fine.

(Just kill one of them and take his gun)

Hank Dodge · Post by **Hank Dodge** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:57 pm

rusty gunns wrote: ......As far as "When the poop hits the fan" my Ruger 10/22 is just fine.

(Just kill one of them and take his gun)

Man....I should have read this years ago. It would have saved me all kind's of money!!

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:52 pm

I have a Puma in 480 with a 20" barrel and only nominate it because of the bore size (psychological effect). Any of the leverguns in 357 on up would be good. It is just that the .475 bore is the largest non-custom levergun I could find. The Corbon 275 gr Barnes DPX ammo would work well on 2 legged and most 4 legged critters. 420 gr hardcast will handle anything in Alaska should I find myself there.

scarville · Post by **scarville** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:03 am

Rexster wrote:The other long weapon, the second prong of my approach, is a Browning BLR, in .308 Winchester. I can slap another loaded box magazine into a BLR in less time that it takes to insert an individual cartridge into the loading gate of a traditional lever rifle. For those with experience with the Browning BAR's magazine system, the BLR has a DIFFERENT system; the whole mag drops out with the activation of a recessed lever, and the spare will easily pop into place.

*The reason for the "future" part of the first paragraph above is that I still wear a badge, and my chief wants me to shoot bad guys with certain specified 12 gauge shotguns, and certain specified .223 autoloading carbines. When Hurricane Rita was bearing down on us, though, as we are playing host to some nice folks from NOLA, there was a very unauthorized, yet very familiar, .308 lever rifle in a certain patrol car trunk. ("Boot" for you UK guys.)

I guess I should say that GMTA. I have a couple of BLRs in 308. One is a steel receiver, the other is a takedown with the aluminum receiver. About the only complaint I can see to it as a defensive rifle is the four round magazines. Six or even eight would be better. More than that would probably not fit without interfering with the lever.

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:19 am

I guess that the soft body armor arguement would favor a load of birdshot into the face. Alternate birdshot with slugs. Also there are some specialty slugs out there constructed like big game solids. If the armored opponents are LEOs I'm dropping my gun and doing exactly what they say. If they are wearing baggy pants with their butt crack showing and bandanas on their heads, I'm aiming at the bandana.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:26 am

rusty gunns wrote:I'd have to say a short barreled lever gun in 45 colt. With a 250 gr rnfp or swc standard velocity slug. Its easy to shoot, wont pass through the miscreant and kill the neighbor's dog.

...I'll bet it would, actually - moderate to slow velocity heavy lead round noses are famous for deep penetration.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:12 am

Facial bones, unless the mouth is open or the eyes are hit, tend to stop birdshot.

Having seen someone blow half their face off in an attempted suicide and yet live... yeah.

Barrel in mouth? Light switch. Against the face? Not always.

There was a shooting where an intruder was hit by a guy who had a shotgun loaded with birdshot. 250-some pellets in the load, 249 of them stopped in his jaw/face area. ONE pellet missed low and penetrated to his brain, turning him off instantly.

I'd rather use buck in that case.

Arminius · Post by **Arminius** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:18 pm

wm wrote:I always thought a Ruger 96 chambered in 45ACP with a 16" barrel and tritium sights would be an ideal weapon to supplemental a 45ACP sidearm for defensive carry.

I've said it but so far no one has recognized my genius!!!

Wm

Have you ever heard of the Marlin Camp 45 Carbine????

But IMO the 9 mm Version is MUCH superior. More rounds, more energy ...

Hermann

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:32 pm

I live in a small town in Ilynoise too. My preferred defense weapon is a Type 2 hand phaser. Set it on level 10 and there is no excessive penetration. No remains and no evidence for the medical examiner or forensics dept to look at either.

J

e

caprockhunter · Post by **caprockhunter** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:14 pm

Hi guys, at one time I was around here a lot but sort of faded out a few years back when all the server problems happened. It's nice to see some familiar faces are still around.

Anyway, I'm a big fan of the defensive levergun. I've got an 1895G for myself, and an 1894 for my mom, seen here. http://keith-biggerpieceofsky.blogspot. ... rifle.html

Kevin Keith · Post by **Kevin Keith** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:47 pm

I've been a Texas Highway Patrolman for 25 years and when I went to work in 1984 our issue rifle was 1894 Winchester in .30 WCF! Sometime in the late 80s/early 90s we switched to Ruger Mini 14s, .223...a real mosquito round. Just about 2 years ago we switched, again, to Bushmaster M4 carbines, also, of course, .223. I surely wish we had our 94s back!

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:08 am

Welcome back caprockhunter, you've got to like a guy who buys his mother a levergun!

Welcome to the fire too, Kevin Keith. 25 years in Texas highway Patrol you must have more than a few tales to tell!

Kevin Keith · Post by **Kevin Keith** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:55 am

game keeper wrote:Welcome back caprockhunter, you've got to like a guy who buys his mother a levergun!

Welcome to the fire too, Kevin Keith. 25 years in Texas highway Patrol you must have more than a few tales to tell!

Thank you game keeper, I appreciate the welcome! Yes sir, there have been a few wild moments and lots of fun too. I am retiring in six months but it doesn't seem like I've been here that long!

The Texas legislature authorizes a Special Texas Ranger commission for honorably retired officers so I'm looking forward to joining their ranks. Move over Walker!

caprockhunter · Post by **caprockhunter** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:04 pm

Thanks Game keeper, it's good to be back. Has Hobie made it to a million posts yet? What about Aces and Eights, is he still around?

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:56 am

caprockhunter wrote:Thanks Game keeper, it's good to be back. Has Hobie made it to a million posts yet? What about Aces and Eights, is he still around?

Hobie is trailing well behind Ysable Kid in posts

and I ain't seen Aces and Eights in a long time.

Arminius · Post by **Arminius** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:54 pm

3leggedturtle wrote:I always thought that the Ruger 96/22 Magnum would be a great defense gun, quickly loaded,and seeing what the 40gr JHP's at 1900fps do to sealed cans of food and water filled plastic bottles and with the 9 shot clips will let you get to a better weapon if needed.

Yes, but a "Steel Lips" 20 or 25 rounder would be fine, wouldn´t it???

Is there anybody making larger mags for this little gun?

Hermann

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:02 pm

Arminius wrote:
wm wrote:I always thought a Ruger 96 chambered in 45ACP with a 16" barrel and tritium sights would be an ideal weapon to supplemental a 45ACP sidearm for defensive carry.

I've said it but so far no one has recognized my genius!!!

Wm
Have you ever heard of the Marlin Camp 45 Carbine????

But IMO the 9 mm Version is MUCH superior. More rounds, more energy ...

Hermann

LOL. My current pet rifle is a Marlin 1894 cut to 16" and converted to Cowboy .45 Special (.45 ACP with a Colt rim). I got some deer loads pushing a 230 XTP into .460 Rowland territory at 1400 fps. My kid carried it this morning. I carried it's 24" sister gun

PS, it holds 10+1

shawn_c992001 · Post by **shawn_c992001** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:37 pm

I would have to say a 44 levergun (take your pick) with some custom handloads and 165gr-200gr bullets. Those should do the trick.

Rifleman336 · Post by **Rifleman336** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:01 pm

Right now, I have a three .357 Magnums double action handgun from my security working days, along with 16" .357 Magnum "Guide Gun", A gun that ironicly that I have yet to fire since new. The prior owner didn't fire the weapon, traded it in at a gunshop, and I then purchased it minus box and instruction book (like I need that), but I've yet to fire it either.

First it was time, I was working 7 days a week (80+ hours) The it was a long bout of hopitalizations and now a ammo shortage!!! I think I bought the Hope Rifle. It has a curse that follows it, like the hope diamond!!

But now, that I'm out of the security buisness ( Thank God!) I'd like to go up to .44 Mag in both handgun and rifle. The advantage as I see it. If the "Mesiaha" trys outlawing hollow points, my .357 with hollow points might expand if its a hollow point, but a .44/.45 solid will never shrink.

But just because it's a .44 Mag, doesn't mean I use them for defense, thats where a good .44 Special comes into play. .44 mags would be feed at one at a time ithe rifle, for the "smart" punk and his pawnshop body armour or some punks firing from a car, but .44 Special the main duty defense round. It has the same power and and recoil of a .45 auto and without over the top penitration of the .44 Magnum loads.

.44 Mags would be used manly for Hunting.

Rifleman 336