OT - I got the cast bullet blues for the 32 (special)

[BenT]

I cast some Ranch Dog .323 bullets and I am having a devil of a time finding a load that groups well. I'm using a Win 94 Wrangler , which has a 16 in barrel. It groups just under an inch at 50 yards with Hornady 170gr fp.But with these cast bullets I'm getting 4 to 6 inch groups at fifty yards. So if any of you have an accurate load in the 1800 fps range I would like to try it out.

But the good news is that I have a dandy load for my 38-55 using 235gr RD bullet. 34 grs of H4895 at 1780fps. Today I was hitting milk jugs at 200yrds from the bench by just moving up the rear sight one notch. It's a 94 with a 28 in octagon barrel. I put a marbles tang sight on it . But I'm not sure what yardage it's going to work for, since I'm using the rear sight for 200 yards.

[TedH]

What's your bore slug out to? What alloy are you casting the bullets with?

[Marc]

Does the bullet fit? What powders have you tried? For 1800 FPS I would be trying 4198 or slower.

[O.S.O.K.]

I take it that the Ranch Dog mold is a gas check design? If not, you need to slow the boolit down to 1500-1600 fps.

The diameter of the boolit should be .001 - .002" larger than bore.

And for alloy - I get fine results with wheel weights (plus some tin) with Lee Liquid Alox - up to 2000 fps. Which means a "standard" propellant just backed off a bit to give 1900-2000 fps.

I like this alloy as it will rivet/expand on game. Harder alloys like 1/2 ww and 1/2 linotype or straight lino are generally too hard to expand much.

[Charles]

I think the boys have asked some very important questions. The 32 W.S. is probably one of the best cast bullet rounds and rifles out there. Cast bullets will shoot every bit as well as jacketed at full snort factory speeds.

In my 1959 Winchester 94 (32 W.S.) the RCBS 170 GCFN bullet cast from No. 2 alloy, checked and sized .323 over 30/H335 will give 1.5 MOA groups at any range. The velocity is around 2.2 K fps.

[BenT]

I didn't slug the bore since it shot jacketed fine . I use water quenched WW and it is gas checked ,sized at .323.

The worst accuracy I had was with H322,RL7 and H4198 with velocities from 1900 fps to 2100 fps. I've tried 32 to 34 gr of H4895 with velocities from 1980 to 2110 with accuracy very simila rwith all loads. Varget was better 32gr to 34gr with velocities 1935 to 2015 with not much varience in accuracy.

34 gr of H4895 with 170gr hornady fp will give me 3/4 in groups at 50 Yards. The powders I'm using usually cover the bases for most of my leverguns. So I think I might try to slow things down and see if they get better and play with AOL.

Charles I don't have any H335.

[Charles]

Ben... Let's start with the basics.

1. Make dead certain, the barrel is cleaned from all jacketed bullet metal fouling. Sweets 7.62 will get the job done.

2. Don't quench your bullets. Shoot them air cooled.

3.Shoot them over 15 grains of 2400. If you don't have some buy it.

The above should give you decent cast bullet groups. I know that load is slower than you want. But first get a base line load from which to develope what you want to end up with.

It the above works for you, then switch to 3031 (25 grains) and work up to about 30 grains. If the above doesn't work for you, then you have a bum bulllet design or really bad lube. I have never tried the Ranch Dog designs, but I understand they are good ones.

[BenT]

Thanks Charles , that's what I want to do is find a base line to prove that it can shoot cast accurately.

A couple questions Charles. Are you saying that quench hardening doesn't gain you anything?

Is alox a good enough lube for air cooled bullets pushing 2000 fps without getting leading?

I just started casting this year ,so I'm still learning alot. Thanks

[TedH]

Ranch Dog's bullet molds were designed to be used with alox. If properly applied it will do very well at 2000 fps and beyond. I'm shooting one of his bullets in my 356 Win at just a hair over 2000 fps with no lead fouling at all.

I like the dip method with the LEE type tumble lube grooves. Install your gas checks, then apply a thin coat by tumbling them in a pail or bowl. After they dry run them through your sizer to seat the gas checks. Thin out some more alox with mineral spirits or heat it up to make it runny. Put some in a small dish so you can dip the bullets just to the top of the grooves. Set them on some wax paper to let the excess run off. After they dry run them through the sizer again. The lube grooves should be full of alox and the noses fairly free of lube.

[Marc]

It's also possible your bullet is to big. I have one 30-30 that shoots a .311" bullet best and another that likes .310".

Bullet hardness comes into play at about 2000 FPS in my 356, which is the only rifle I have tried to push over 2000 FPS.

[Charles]

Ben... Air cooled ww is plenty hard enough for velocities up to 1.9 K fps. Maybe more in a slow twist rifle like your 1-16 Winchester 32 W.S. When you drop bullets into water, no two hit the water the same way. So you get uneven results. It may not be much, but why introduce another variable into an already complex equation if not needed. Uniformity is a principal key to accurate reloading.

I am just not a water dropper. If a fellow wants to temper/harden ww the oven method will give a good even and uniform bullet. It takes longer, but it is worth the effort.

Now about Lee Alox Snot! I don't use it and would never use it. Some folks swear by it and other swear at it. I tried it a couple of times and was not impressed with it. It is a product designed to get around the cost of purchasing of lubesize machine. It is part of the Lee mentality of "Lets forget quality and do things cheap". I know a bunch of serious bullet casters who would not have a bottle of that in the shop.

I have used a home made bullet lube of 60/40 beeswax to Vasaline for over 50 years with 100% satisfaction and I see no reason to change.

Now, I am certain their will be some follow up posts extoling the virtues of pitching hot bullet into water and shaking them in a plastic tube of LLA. That is just fine, folks can do what they want and I wish them all the best for their efforts.

[jtaylor1960]

I have shot an RCBS cast bullet from my gun using 34.0grs.of Varget and it shot quite well.It was cast from Lyman #2 and sized at .323.With jacketed bullets H-4895 is my favorite.

[Sixgun]

Charles is right about the water quenching not being consistent. It is if you really pay attention and make sure the mould and lead are plenty hot. You can tell this by hearing a "sizzling sound" when the bullet hits the water.

I water quench everything because I am a volume caster. I want to cast up at least 1.5- 2K everytime I turn on the furnace. Using 2 four cavity moulds, I can reach this quantity in about 3-4 hours. 3 and 4 cavity moulds from NEI, Lyman, and Saeco are all I use with a few double cavity jobs from RCBS or Lyman thrown in. I also have been known to use a single cavity Lyman for my old 35 Winchester Model 1895. I don't have the patience to drop my bullets in a nice clean cloth and watch where each one hits.

My method is not for extreme accuracy in BPCR rifles but is plenty good for my leverguns and a few old Hi-Walls. My accuracy criteria is 2-3" at 100 meters using original 100+ year old rifles with tang sights.

My .32 Spls like the 170 gr. RCBS bullet sized .322 in front of 21 grains of AA 5744 for a chronographed speed of 1750. (I think the speed is correct--don't have my notes handy).

I seat this bullet so I have to use just a smidgen of strengh to close the lever. The front driving band just enters the rifling to "square things up". Try seating your bullets (using a dummy) at different lengths until you get this feel or just look at the driving band to see if you are making contact. Makes a big difference.

Charles uses 15 grains of 2400 for his "all time quality accuracy load". I do the same but my load is 8 grains of Unique. if a 32 Spl. don't shoot with that load, I get rid of the gun -----------Sixgun

[Ranch Dog]

I use 30.6-grains of H322 with the TLC323-170-RF for 2245 FPS out of the 20" barrel of my 336RC.

I cast with 95% WW, 5%, with 1 oz if #8 shot added per 10# of alloy mixed and water quench. I lube the bullet with Alox and run it through a Lee .323 sizer to seat the Hornady gas check. The BHN for my alloy mix and treatment is 19 to 21.

At 100 yards, I have averaged 2.10" five-shot groups (2.00 MOA). If I slowed it down slightly my groups might increase, but I like the velocity the load is producing.

I have killed a number hogs and one whitetail buck with this bullet and load. I shot the buck at 165-yards through the chest cavity and it collapsed on the spot. It really didn't like that RF nose punching through it's lungs!

[BenT]

Thanks for the reply Ranchdog, I'm looking into my records and it shows that I tried 29gr of H322 with 3 in groups at 50 yards averaging 1970fps out of a 16 in barrel. I'm doing the same with my bullets except that they are just WW. If you get good results with H322 maybe I need to revisit H322 and play with AOL.

[O.S.O.K.]

I would suggest trying Varget (that should be one of the standouts) and W748 - just use the book loads that give about 100 fps less jacketed bullet velocity than the target cast boolit velocity (go for around 2000 targeted fps IMHO). I agree to just use ww with a little tin added and air cool. I don't see why water quenched as Ranch Dog is doing would negatively affect accuracy, but I always use air cooled and get excellent accuracy/no leading. Also yes, do use the Lee Liquid Alox. Slugging the bore will tell you the correct sizing. If you find you need a larger diameter, it's an easy chore to chuck a bronze brush into a drill, wrap a cleaning patch around it and apply some lapping compound - 600 grit works quite well (auto parts store) - run this through your sizing die to open it up to desired diameter if you need a little larger - which it sounds like you do.... but slug the bore with a pure lead 32 caliber bullet - like a swaged hb wadcutter such as Hornady and Speer sell.

I have yet to fail with that "recipe" - with calibers like the 32 Spcl that are known good cast boolit shooters.

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks for the reply Ranchdog, I'm looking into my records and it shows that I tried 29gr of H322 with 3 in groups at 50 yards averaging 1970fps out of a 16 in barrel. I'm doing the same with my bullets except that they are just WW. If you get good results with H322 maybe I need to revisit H322 and play with AOL.

I use the tin for definition of the microbands and the shot for hardening the bullet. Without the tin, eventhough water quenching, the best I can get is 15 -17 BHN and that is not enough when you putting the pressure to it.