OT-Shot a Mountain Lion with a 22.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:47 pm

Even if I had a 22 for the frogs, there's ALWAYS a 38-55 trapper and 45 handgun with me in the truck!

a357lever · Post by **a357lever** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:07 pm

I was told years ago that 22lr was used often for moutain lion when hunting with dogs to tree it. I was also told by a western hunter that mountain lions are not hard to kill. They are not as tough as other big cats.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:36 pm

Yep. the .22 works just fine........ when you have a pack of dogs! Elmer Keith didn't recommend it.

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:15 pm

Travis Morgan wrote:Yep. the .22 works just fine........ when you have a pack of dogs! Elmer Keith didn't recommend it.

Of course after Elmer had some .38-40 bullets bounce off the skull of an elk, he never recommended any caliber that didn't start with a "4".

Elmer didn't believe in using a small bore when a big bore would do the job.

Can't say I disagree with the old gentleman. he certainly knew his stuff/

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:33 am

Doc,

I LOVE that story; I have it bookmarked in my copy of "Sixguns". Being as it's early in the morning, and I haven't slept all night, I might just go reread it!

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:40 am

Travis Morgan wrote:Yep. the .22 works just fine........ when you have a pack of dogs! Elmer Keith didn't recommend it.

Being an old fan of dear departed Mr. Keith, I have to agree. When it comes to killing anything, bigger is better,... there is no such thing as "overkill" in my book. Dead is just dead, no matter how you get there.

Arminius · Post by **Arminius** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:22 pm

I still don´t think it´s correct.

a .22 LR and a .22 WMR are different, but the Magnum will xplode the frogs. I don´t care for Frogs.

If I am out in the Wild, I want something substantial on my side / at my Hips / slung.

If I use a .22 rifle, it will mostly be a 4" .357 Ruger GP 100. After THAT amount of shooting I put in and Wolff Springs its trigger is pure joy.

IF there are Bears there ( not where I live ), I´d most probably have my M 29-6, 6", or a 12 Ga by me.

A Colt SAA 4 3/4" in .45 is next on my List.

If I have a rifle with me, a .22 makes a fine second gun ( a Ruger .22 SA comes to mind, I´d take my M 18 or my TPH ). I need a Ruger .22!

Hermann

P.S.: don´t laugh at me, but I DO trust the 1911 with a 200 grs HC Bullet over a stout Unique or N 340 load! Except for Bears!

Post by **AmBraCol** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:43 pm

Arminius wrote:I still don´t think it´s correct.

Different strokes for different folks.

My cousins roam all over the old farmstead with MAYBE a rifle in the pickup. I've never seen any of them pack a handgun and they certainly don't handle machinery or livestock with a rifle at hand. It's always in the truck which can be a ways off. Me? When I visit I've got a pistol of some kind on my practically all the time. There's plenty of wildlife around which potentially could carry rabies (coons, coyotes, foxes, etc) PLUS the now present cougars that the cityidjits have caused to proliferate around the state. They think I'm nuts. But should I run into something while out walking the old paths, I'll be ready.

A man does what a man has to do with what a man has. If that's a 22 - you'd be amazed at what a guy can do with one. Folks sniff at them as a "kid's toy" - but they've killed more game than all other calibers combined I'm pretty sure. Folks sniff at the 243 or the 25-35 as "under powered" or barely "marginal" for deer and forget about using them on elk or moose! But both have taken everything there is on the North American continent. I'd rather see someone use a small caliber and place their shots carefully and effectively than see them close their eyes and jerk the trigger while pointing the weapon somewhere in the general direction of the target. Bigger isn't necessarily better. If you can't shoot it, don't hunt with it.

A properly placed 22 LR will take anything up to and including grizzly. NO, it's not the hunter's first choice. BUT it CAN do when push comes to shove. It all comes back to bullet placement. And the 22 is light and cheap enough to shoot that you can learn to properly place shots way out past where most folks think it will even reach. The lowly 22 is kind of like a handgun. Folks look down on it and don't realize how deadly it can be WAY out past arm's length.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:51 pm

"Dead is just dead, no matter how you get there."

But DRT beats dead in a while, especially when the subject at hand has fangs & claws...

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:59 pm

I can feed my tribe much longer for a lot less money with my .22 than I can with my 45/70. A brick of .22 ammo will kill game for years and it weighs less than a years supply of 45/70 ammo. So if I'm in a survival type situation where I don't expect fedex to be bringing me groceries or ammo, I'm going to use my .22 to feed folks.

It's just a matter of knowing what you're doing, how to do it, and then doing it.

Anyone who doesn't think he can do it, shouldn't do it. But he should be grateful to those who can when the meat goes into the pot. And he shouldn't be in the free advice business to those who can do it.

That's how I look at it anyhow...

Grizz

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:17 pm

Well, I thought this was about protecting stock from dangerous critters. To go along with the flow, if "mine" needed wild game for food, I would use as big a caliber as I had. There is nothing a 22 can do, that a large caliber can't do and probably do a better job. Sadly, the opposite isn't always true.

I have read a story of a Alaskan Inuit women protecting herself from a polar bear with a 22 lr. Seems that she had her act together enough to shoot and kill it with one shot in the eye/tear duct. I'm sure there are dozens of such stories,... but, that is the problem. These "stories" are reported and passed on because they are NOT THE NORM! How many stores would be impressionable enough , to have such popularity, if the weapon used was a 50BMG?

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:17 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:"Dead is just dead, no matter how you get there."

But DRT beats dead in a while, especially when the subject at hand has fangs & claws...

EXACTLY !!! I don't want something to bleed to death while it's chewing on me. I want it DRT!

Alan Wood · Post by **Alan Wood** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:05 am

I am going to post a reply to this message despite having chosen not to for several days. While I understand those of you who would not have taken the shot or as it turned out shots I would. We are talking 4 legged predators not people here. While I would prefer to kill them dead right there if they threaten me or my livelyhood I will kill them period. If that means death by a million 22 shorts so be it. If I have the option it will be at least a 30/30 or 44 magnum but if not whatever firearm is at hand will be used.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:05 am

Travis Morgan wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:"Dead is just dead, no matter how you get there."

But DRT beats dead in a while, especially when the subject at hand has fangs & claws...
EXACTLY !!! I don't want something to bleed to death while it's chewing on me. I want it DRT!

Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen,.... as you have so skillfully quoted, the statement is "Dead is just dead, no matter how you get there."

That was not to mean, half dead with a follow up shot, nor, dead but chewing on my leg.

Maybe I needed to include " Dead ...with one shot...is just dead, no matter how you get there". Maybe that would be more clear?

I never knew that "DEAD" could mean anything other than "DEAD"?

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:26 am

First deer I shot was a spike on the Mogollon Rim. Had my Dad's Savage 99 .243. First I shot the wolf that was stalking me, badly. Not much blood, but it gave up on me and ran off.

I sat on a hillside and a couple of panicked deer ran by and stopped in front of me. I took the "boiler room" shot on the spike. The deer ran off and collided with a tree. The bullet had blown both lungs out the exit hole. Well, part of them.... so, that's the ethical shot the lecturers are prognosticating about. Somehow they imagine that the deer doesn't feel any pain from that. Somehow they can't imagine the pain of having your guts eaten while the creature is still alive. And they think that killing a cat with more than one shot is "unethical".

Other than wanton intentional cruelty there is no such thing as an "ethical" gun shot. Any more than there is an "ethical" arrow shot, or spear, or trap.

I don't know how many times I've been told that head shots are "unethical", but I've heard that a lot.

Personally I killed more than a third of all the deer I ate with head shots and I'm here to tell you that's the only way a game animal is DRT. If that's the goal, a painless, no-suffering kill, the CNS shot is the closest it's possible to get.

ALL THE REST IS HYPERVENTILATION ABOUT NOTHING, because you cannot PAINLESSLY blow the heart or lungs out of an animal.

I don't mind being lectured by knowledgable folks, but some of the propositions in this thread aren't very well associated with reality.

The squeamish are better off getting their meat at the market, IMO.

Grizz

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:24 am

76/444 wrote:
Travis Morgan wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:"Dead is just dead, no matter how you get there."

But DRT beats dead in a while, especially when the subject at hand has fangs & claws...
EXACTLY !!! I don't want something to bleed to death while it's chewing on me. I want it DRT!

Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen,.... as you have so skillfully quoted, the statement is "Dead is just dead, no matter how you get there."

That was not to mean, half dead with a follow up shot, nor, dead but chewing on my leg.

Maybe I needed to include " Dead ...with one shot...is just dead, no matter how you get there". Maybe that would be more clear?

I never knew that "DEAD" could mean anything other than "DEAD"?

Dying is a journey -- longer for some than for others. "Dead" is the destination.

If it takes a quick 30 rounds to induce the state of DRT, then so be it.

But, I get your point...

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:25 am

Grizz wrote:First deer I shot was a spike on the Mogollon Rim. Had my Dad's Savage 99 .243. First I shot the wolf that was stalking me, badly. Not much blood, but it gave up on me and ran off.

I sat on a hillside and a couple of panicked deer ran by and stopped in front of me. I took the "boiler room" shot on the spike. The deer ran off and collided with a tree. The bullet had blown both lungs out the exit hole. Well, part of them.... so, that's the ethical shot the lecturers are prognosticating about. Somehow they imagine that the deer doesn't feel any pain from that. Somehow they can't imagine the pain of having your guts eaten while the creature is still alive. And they think that killing a cat with more than one shot is "unethical".

Other than wanton intentional cruelty there is no such thing as an "ethical" gun shot. Any more than there is an "ethical" arrow shot, or spear, or trap.

I don't know how many times I've been told that head shots are "unethical", but I've heard that a lot.

Personally I killed more than a third of all the deer I ate with head shots and I'm here to tell you that's the only way a game animal is DRT. If that's the goal, a painless, no-suffering kill, the CNS shot is the closest it's possible to get.

ALL THE REST IS HYPERVENTILATION ABOUT NOTHING, because you cannot PAINLESSLY blow the heart or lungs out of an animal.

I don't mind being lectured by knowledgable folks, but some of the propositions in this thread aren't very well associated with reality.

The squeamish are better off getting their meat at the market, IMO.

Grizz

A VERY HUGE +1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:54 am

We have kinda gotten away from what I asked. Would you have taken the shot at the Mountain Lion with a 22 LR if you were on foot?

Post by **AmBraCol** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:57 am

rangerider7 wrote:We have kinda gotten away from what I asked. Would you have taken the shot at the Mountain Lion with a 22 LR if you were on foot?

If I had a good, clear shot - yes.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:30 pm

rangerider7 wrote:We have kinda gotten away from what I asked. Would you have taken the shot at the Mountain Lion with a 22 LR if you were on foot?

absolutely. however many it took. gladly. yes.

Grizz

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:37 pm

rangerider7 wrote:We have kinda gotten away from what I asked. Would you have taken the shot at the Mountain Lion with a 22 LR if you were on foot?

Yup.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:22 pm

Yup, have done it. danny

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:00 pm

76/444 wrote:Wow, this is a tough call. I am a horse rancher, but can understand a cattle ranchers point of view. I guess I would have to try and eliminate the threat to my stock and try and kill the cat with whatever I had in hand. Being a stock raiser,... doing such is just part of the job, imo.

Asked ,... and , answered.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:04 pm

Yes, I'd shoot. And I'd keep shooting as long and as often as I could...

That said, mountain lions are considered "trophy game" in Wyoming, and a tag is required, unless of course...

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:00 pm

Grizz,

The reason most folks will call headshots unethical is that your average hunter does little shooting, and is probably more likely to wet his pants than place a headshot properly. (because he's wetting his pants) I know a lot of guys that spend a lot of money on guns, optics, ammo, camo, etc.. but very little TIME. When they say they gutshot a deer under 100 yards, they act like it just "happened". These are the guys that typically talk about headshots. If you've ever seen an animal that starved to death or died of infection because some idiot blew his jaw off, shot his eye out, or hit him through a non vital area, you'll agree that most guys should go for the biggest target possible.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:09 pm

Call me whatever you want, but I'm of the notion a stock killin wannabee lion or anything else gets his jaw blown off and starves to death, it won't bother me in the least.

cnjarvis · Post by **cnjarvis** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:39 pm

In a word: Yes.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:04 pm

I know Travis. I just want to dispell the myth that blowing the heart/liver/lungs/or guts out of an animal is kind to them. I've killed a lot of deer with heart/lung shots, but I never kidded myself that it's either fast or painless. I think the tyros wouldn't recognize a herd animal in pain anyway...

rambling on,

Grizz

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:25 pm

Grizz wrote:I know Travis. I just want to dispell the myth that blowing the heart/liver/lungs/or guts out of an animal is kind to them. I've killed a lot of deer with heart/lung shots, but I never kidded myself that it's either fast or painless. I think the tyros wouldn't recognize a herd animal in pain anyway...

rambling on,

Grizz

Agreed. Further more, I have always believed head shots as the most humane manner of putting an animal down ,...for food or illness. Bottom line, I have a ranch full of animals, and I have had to put down (for food or illness) horses, goats, dogs, cats, and chickens,... and I have never shot one in the heart thinking it a better or more humane way to do it.

JB · Post by JB » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:18 pm

Last year I shot a black bear with a .177 pellet gun. It was about the third time he'd came into the yard after my garbage cans. It would have been illegal to kill him out of season, so I shot him in the rump. When that pellet smacked him, he hit the woods wide open. Never did see him back. Still makes for a great story at work

But back to the original post, if my livestock were in danger, I'd have shot the cat with whatever I had handy, 22LR or otherwise.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:56 pm

JB,

If that was me I would be only halfway out the house door ready to close it quick and looking at my 12ga in the kitchen corner??????????? Now in the woods away from the house

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