Max powder load .44 ball and cap

[Tennessee Hayre]

I have been loading all of my .44 cal's ball and cap with 30 grains of FFFG, Pyrodex P, powder and I wanted to ask if anyone has used more in their loads for the same cal. I thought about making a stand and mount one of my old .44 navys and doing some test. Loading each chamber with 40,50, and 60 just to see what the effect would be. I would be pulling the trigger with a string of course (LOL).

RE-EDIT Has anyone ever Loaded buckshot in theirs. That was another question I have.

[Kansas Ed]

Can you even get 50-60 grains in with a ball on top?

Ed

[Tennessee Hayre]

one would have to cut the lead bullet in half to make room but since I have not tried it I would have to give it a try.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Something tells me were not talking REVOLVER here !

You cant overload a BP revolver, there just aint enough room for powder and ball to get an overload in there.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

If we are talking Colt style 1851's or 1860's you can expect to load about 35 to 37 grs before the ball protrudes too much to allow the cylinder to turn. If those are brass frame Rebel Griswald pattern guns (the confederate copy of the 36cal colt 51) but in 44cal you can expect the frames to stretch if you steadily shoot them with any charge more than 20 grs or so.
If this is a Dragoon you can load up to 50 grs or Walker you can usually load up to 60 gr. But a steady diet of those loads will loosen it even though it's a steel frame. Don't ask me how i know this.

for a stead diet of max loads the closed or "O" frame remington 1858's are a better choice.

I have colt pattern CB's but i compete with Remmies.

MY TU-TONE 58'S

[Tennessee Hayre]

If the frame happens to stretch does that make the gun a danger to shoot.

[Hobie]

If the frame happens to stretch does that make the gun a danger to shoot.

Yes... Imagine it this way, the frame stretches (each in a slightly different way) and the mechanism parts are no longer aligned correctly.

30-35 gr. is plenty. Trim the wild hair...

[JimT]

I had one of those brass-framed copies of the .36 Navy Colt... loaded it to the max. One day when I fired it the barrel, cylinder and cylinder pin went downrange. The cylinder pin had pulled the threads in the frame.

It wasn't dangerous to shoot after that.

Couldn't get it back together .. but the parts looked nice.

[kimwcook]

My suggestion would be use a Ruger Old Army. Almost impossible to stretch it.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I had one of those brass-framed copies of the .36 Navy Colt... loaded it to the max. One day when I fired it the barrel, cylinder and cylinder pin went downrange. The cylinder pin had pulled the threads in the frame.

It wasn't dangerous to shoot after that.

Couldn't get it back together .. but the parts looked nice.

LOL
About 30 years ago one of the first single actions I owned was a 51 pattern colt but it was in 44. I didn't have a powder measure so I just filled it up and blew off enough powder so the ball would seat flush. It didn't take long for the arbor to start pulling out of the brass frame. Now that in it's self should havew been a big clue because as the headspace grows the hammer no longer reaches the caps so it would fail to fire. In my youthful stupidity my fix was to just hold the cylinder back with my off hand so the hammer would set em off. That worked for the first two shots but on the third the other two chambers chain fired. If you have ever had a firecracker go off in your hand times that by two and you will understand how that felt. I immediately dropped the gun and started counting fingers. Once I determined they were all there, needless to say, I never shot that one again.

[Ysabel Kid]

This begs the question of "why"? If you "feel the need for speed", buy a modern magnum revolver. C&B revolvers are great, but they have their place, and shooting max loads all day long through them ain't it...

[Doc Hudson]

If that contraption is a .44 caliber on a Navy frame, don't try to hot rod the thing. it won't stand up to much hot rodding, especially if it has a brass frame.

The Model 1851 Colt Navy Revolver was never chambered in any caliber other than .36 by Colt. The frame is not designed to tolerate the added pressures generated by even normal .44 caliber service loads.

If you want to keep that old hogleg shooting for many years, keep your powder charges in the 20-25 grain range. if you want to test the thing to destruction, have at it. But I doubt you will be able to get as much as 40 grains of powder in that rebated cylinder.

[Tennessee Hayre]

The revolver 1851 navy with brass cylinder is the old one, but I have a very nice Nickle 1860 that I treasure. Both are .44 Cal. I stay around 27 grains when just shooting , But during deer season (Muzzle Loading), I take the 1860 .44 loaded with 30 grains. I just needed to know how much the gun can take when only fired 6 times a year with the max load (deer season). You all got me thinking now about this streaching thingee. -------What about the buckshot load for a ball and cap, is that possible instead of a lead ball.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

If that contraption is a .44 caliber on a Navy frame, don't try to hot rod the thing. it won't stand up to much hot rodding, especially if it has a brass frame.

The Model 1851 Colt Navy Revolver was never chambered in any caliber other than .36 by Colt. The frame is not designed to tolerate the added pressures generated by even normal .44 caliber service loads.

If you want to keep that old hogleg shooting for many years, keep your powder charges in the 20-25 grain range. if you want to test the thing to destruction, have at it. But I doubt you will be able to get as much as 40 grains of powder in that rebated cylinder.

Doc,
With the reproductions in 44 cal there is no difference in the 51 frame and the 60. The frame of the 44 cal 51's are designed for 44 loads because they use the same rebated 44 cylinder and frame as the 60. The barrel assems and the grip frames are the only difference. This is true of the 44cal for both the 51 and 60 brass frames as well. I feel the brass frame 51 in 36 cal will hold up better than the 44cal version whether it's a 51 or a 60 because it's hard to over load the 36. But none of the brass frames will hold up as well as the steel frames in 36 or 44. Whether it's a 51 steel frame in 44cal or 44cal 60.
Yes, they make a steel frame 51 in 44 cal.
This gun is polished in-the-with steel not nickeled.
1851 Navy U.S. Marshal .44 Caliber Revolver

The revolver 1851 navy with brass cylinder is the old one, but I have a very nice Nickle 1860 that I treasure. Both are .44 Cal. I stay around 27 grains when just shooting , But during deer season (Muzzle Loading), I take the 1860 .44 loaded with 30 grains. I just needed to know how much the gun can take when only fired 6 times a year with the max load (deer season). You all got me thinking now about this streaching thingee. -------What about the buckshot load for a ball and cap, is that possible instead of a lead ball.

TH,
You may want to check that nickel 1860 with a magnet. Everyone of these factory nickeled 51's and 60's I seen have been nickel on brass frame guns.
Like this one.

[Hobie]

Proper size buckshot is no different from the swaged balls you get in the boxes. We used to shoot nothing but buckshot and then the companies discovered they made more money packaging the buckshot in 100 ct boxes instead of 5lb bags. Whichever you use you need a .453-.454" ball.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Proper size buckshot is no different from the swaged balls you get in the boxes. We used to shoot nothing but buckshot and then the companies discovered they made more money packaging the buckshot in 100 ct boxes instead of 5lb bags. Whichever you use you need a .453-.454" ball.

I think TH is talking bout a shot load. I've used 4/ought buck shot in my 36 cal 51'a. It's about .380". There's a .60 buck shot called Triball but I've never seen any and it would be a hard swage to seat it in a 44 cal cylinder.
I've never done it but if I were to make a shot load for a C&B I think I would load about 25 grs of 3f under a .060 vegetable card then whatever amount of #4 bird-shot (that's the largest I have on hand). You will need to leave room for an over shot card and because it's a revolver you will probably need to glue this card in so the recoil doesn't shake it loose.

BTW, I prefer .458 ball in my 44 cal C&B's. You shave them to size when you seat them and the .458 leaves more flat on the sides to grip the rifling better. But, a word of caution, the .458's are harder to seat and the 1860 may not do it without wrecking the rack and pinion loading lever/rammer setup. Usually not a problem with the hinged type rammers. At one time there was a BP shop here that carried .470 soft lead ball. Those shot really accurate in my remmies.

[Old Time Hunter]

Nate, run your .458" thru a .452" sizer, makes load'n 'em a heack of alot easier. Shot a couple of 55 grain FFFg loads thru am original 1st edition Walker, it didn't seem to hurt the pistol, just the psyche of those around me at the time. Guess some people think you shouldn't shoot an original Walker made in 1849 (according to Colt).

[Tennessee Hayre]

Thanks guys for the info, My questions have been anwsered and as far as the 1860 showned it is the same one I have. When I purchased it they told me that all was nickle except the frame. It was brass, coated with nickle. It is a real sweet heart and I love it . At 30 steps it is dead on grouping about 2" high with 30 grain of fffg using a .457 ball.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Nate, run your .458" thru a .452" sizer, makes load'n 'em a heack of alot easier. Shot a couple of 55 grain FFFg loads thru am original 1st edition Walker, it didn't seem to hurt the pistol, just the psyche of those around me at the time. Guess some people think you shouldn't shoot an original Walker made in 1849 (according to Colt).

If I was going to use them in a 60 I might do that to save the rack and pinion rammer. But my 58's have throats at .453 and the bores are .452. The .453 throats size them just right. Plus, I don't load them in the gun. I use a loading stand simular to this one.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Thanks guys for the info, My questions have been anwsered and as far as the 1860 showned it is the same one I have. When I purchased it they told me that all was nickle except the frame. It was brass, coated with nickle. It is a real sweet heart and I love it . At 30 steps it is dead on grouping about 2" high with 30 grain of fffg using a .457 ball.

Then keep it at about 20gr or you can expect it to stretch.

[Old Savage]

30-35 gr. is plenty. Trim the wild hair...

---- Hobie

Now I liked that!!!

[KCSO]

Why do you need 3 or 5 or 10 grains of power more for deer hunting? The c and B revolver is at best a finisher and not a primary hunting arm and at 20 feet or so to finish a deer the extra power??? of 3 grains of powder is not going to be noticed. Even in the old days the originals shot loose pretty easy and so this is not the gun to expiriment with. Stick with your standard load of 27 grains and just put the ball where it needs to be.

[1886]

Time to be a smart a==, Ruger makes a strong single action .44 called the BlackHawk. Sorry, I could not help myself. God Bless, 1886.

[Tennessee Hayre]

I will take your all's advise. I sure don't want to mess up my little baby. The only time I will load it to 30 will be during muzzleloader hunting season. I load it up and keep it loaded for that season and then empty it. Im looking at powder now. I have been using PYRODEX (P) and have never had a chamber fail to fire. Sometimes a cap don't fire because it did not get seated all the way on(afraid to push to hard) but on the second time around it always fired. I have heard real black powder is better but what would you all experts say. I am happy so far with Pyrodex (p) because I have never failed to have a cylinder fail but would like to get the most out of my 20 load.