*ALERT* - the dangers of brake cleaner. Pretty harsh.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:33 pm

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:40 pm

That's pretty scary. I use those kinds of chemicals all the time, every day in fact. I know about their potential dangers, but like he said in that article, we get lax at times.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:16 pm

Schitt! That is scary as all get out... I use brake cleaner all of the time!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:47 pm

Whoa! Thanks Tycer. Although I rarely use brake cleaner, I buy 2+2 by the case. Use it on my Jeeps and my guns like it was water. I "guess" its a little different. 20 cases later I'm still alive but have always wondered why I grew that extra finger.------------------Sixgun

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:00 pm

And here I was thinking the best way to make phosgene was to pump 2-cycle exhaust through an HTH chlorine slurry...

Learn somthing new every day..

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:07 pm

I remember reading about phosgene in a college chemistry class - scary stuff.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:08 pm

Thank you Very Very Much! I use what ever happens to be laying around, and would have never known. It's amazing what dangers there are out there that if you've never heard of it you wouldn't know. I used to use a Oxy/Acetylene torch with oil dripping off of me, and silver soldering over a literal bath of hardcut. Never knew any better until some guy walked in one day and FREAKED out. It's a wonder any of us live past 25 huh...

Ed

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:32 pm

AJMD429 wrote:I remember reading about phosgene in a college chemistry class - scary stuff.

What's great is that it's lethal to adults but not kids... (why am I even talking about trade secrets?...

)

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:26 pm

I told deaf ears at a shop I used to work at that ran a degreaser with stuff like that in it.. Told them the UV from welding reacts with the fumes ...makes something like Nerve Gas..So after giving them sufficient time to do something, I called OSHA.. The place moved it out side.. Got laid off not long after that.. LOL

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:36 pm

Now the fellow can tell his grandkids what gas warfare in WW-I was like.

Apparently, this is not a rare occurrence. The Wikipedia mentions creating phosgene in this manner.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:12 am

I used brake cleaner to degrease bullet molds until my 12 week old kitten (Beamer) walked on a counter top where it had been sprayed but was dry. I guess he licked his paws after walking through the residue. It caused his hind legs to be paralized and he almost died. The Vet didn't know if he could save him, but he pulled through and is OK two years later.

I won't have the stuff on my property now, and it is back to dish soap and hot water to clean the molds.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:51 pm

I was told that the non clorinated brake cleaner was ok and not dangerous....yes? no? I've put on rubber gloves and sprayed the heck out of stuff many times...Can't say I've every been normal, but I didn't notice any ill effect...

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:47 pm

Trichloroethane and tetrachloroethyline are the culprits. Neither mixes well with electrical (electronic ) welding, but are relatively harmless in the presence of oxy-acetyline, or so I've been told.

It's the electrolysis of the vapors that creates the difficulty.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:53 pm

I won't read that... what I don't know won't hurt me... right???

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:57 pm

That guys that put a new exhaust system today on my Maxima,the one kid was doing a brake job in next bay and I told both those guys about this happening and be careful.

They are nice kids that have a custom pipe bending machine and they bend their own pipes.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:32 am

Glad you posted this.

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:36 pm

Thanks for the info.

dbateman · Post by **dbateman** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:51 pm

wow we buy brake cleaner in 5 gallon drums and go threw it like you would not believe
thank you for posting that

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:18 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Trichloroethane and tetrachloroethyline are the culprits. Neither mixes well with electrical (electronic ) welding, but are relatively harmless in the presence of oxy-acetyline, or so I've been told.

It's the electrolysis of the vapors that creates the difficulty.

R-12 will do the same when heated with acetylene or oxy-acetylene. My Dad worked with a guy that had it happen while changing a bunch of refrigerator compressors.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:28 pm

HOLY stuff!!!!!

Stuff? I didn't even use the s-word.

Ok,

HOLY COW!

lever-4-life · Post by **lever-4-life** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:57 pm

No mas brake cleaner for me!!!

greasy dan · Post by **greasy dan** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:16 pm

I use that stuff all the time...

I use that stuff all the time...

I use that stuff all the

alamogunr · Post by **alamogunr** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:10 pm

awp101 wrote: R-12 will do the same when heated with acetylene or oxy-acetylene. My Dad worked with a guy that had it happen while changing a bunch of refrigerator compressors.

R-22 also. It was used in central A/C systems. We had to watch that none was released in the factory. All brazing was done with natural gas/oxygen. I think it is the burning, not the fuel.
John
W.TN

Post by **Paco** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:03 am

[b]YEARS AGO I HAD TWO BOTTLES OF COLD BLUE.. DIFFERENT BRANDS, BOTH ABOUT HALF FULL. NEVER EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT ....I POURED THE CONTENTS OF ONE BOTTLE INTO THE OTHER..... SCREWED ON THE CAP TIGHT AND WENT TO THE GARBAGE TO GET RID OF THE EMPTY BOTTLE... THAT WAS THE ONLY SMART THING I DID WALKING AWAY FROM THE WORK BENCH, BECAUSE TEN STEPS AWAY AND THE MIXTURE AND THE GLASS BOTTLE ON THE BENCH EXPLODED! AND IT WASN'T A WIMP BANG.... IT EXPLODED DRIVING ALL KINDS OF THINGS OFF THE BENCH. A LARGE BLOCK OF VERY DENSE HARDWOOD I HAD NEAR THE BOTTLE HAD GLASS EMBEDDED DEEPLY INTO IT.... TALK ABOUT LEARNING TO READ THE INFORMATION ON CHEMICALS WE USE, THAT WAS MY LESSON..... PACO[/b]

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:14 am

Nice to see you post.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:21 pm

Paco, Great to hear from you as well. Unreal with that Cold Blue?
I probably would have done the same thing. Thanks for the heads up!

dws · Post by **dws** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:46 pm

WOW! just finished a book on WW 1, I'd never given more than casual thought to the gas attacks there. the book brought the horror home to me, AND THEN to see this story and link--sometime you feel someone is telling you something. I use brake cleaner all the time---or at least I used to---whenever I wanted to clean something and not leave an oily residue.

I copied the link and forwarded it to several other sites I'm active on where guys do a lot of tinkering as well as a few friends and family members I'd really miss.

thanks so much for posting it.

CoopertownBob · Post by **CoopertownBob** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:51 pm

I have always used brake cleaner to clean my guns with when they are exceptionally dirty. Guess I'll start making sure they are COLD first from now on.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:13 am

If only that guy had his handy atropene injector from his Army gas mask kit with him - all might have been well!!

Just kidding of course. And by the way, isn't phosgene gas what the occasional meth lab hack manages to off himself with whilst pretending to understand chemistry?

To the OP: thanks for posting!

Best,
Oly

41bear · Post by **41bear** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:02 am

Thanks for the heads up, WOW!

rkcohen · Post by **rkcohen** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:59 am

danger is where you find it, right?

my wife rolls her eyes and the kids stomp away when they ask me about something and my reply is "read the label," "read the instructions" or "read the manual."

i've been using the same large can of brake cleaner now for well over two years - using it on stubborn guns, rotors and drums for a final clean and the lot.

always in open, ventilated areas and always very sparingly.

i suspect i will get at least, another year out of that can, with that in mind, i doubt my exposure/dose rate is very high at all.

we all go to the range don't we?

think of the things we smell/inhale there.

and i'm not even thinking about shooting......

popper · Post by **popper** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:26 pm

When you burn a lot of the chlorinated stuff, you get really nasty gasses.
Freon, Teflon - really nasty.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:21 pm

I use brake parts cleaner everyday. But, I don't use the chlorinated stuff. I buy the house brand from Auto-Zone. It is heptane and toluene based. It's still not available in some areas, though.

I have used this brand even before it was the Auto Zone house brand. Ten years ago it was Albany brand. I noticed it was canned by Albany Brake parts company of Lafayette LA. Before I found it I was using Birchwood Casey Gun scrub. But at $6 to $8 bucks a can it was too expensive. So I called Albany to see what was in it. I read off the contents of the BC gun scrub and the feller told me it was pretty much the same thing. Neither one has chlorines.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:48 pm

I won't work on it if I can't spray break cleaner on it.

Joe

pdentrem · Post by **pdentrem** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:30 pm

I hope the moderators will keep this topic closer to the top as death due to cleaning or stripping paint when refinishing gun wood is not funny.

This post sure made me sit up as we use this brake cleaner in areas where there can be a lot of heat, 100s of degrees to times. On further research I found that there are other sources as well.

I did not know about Paint Strippers! Just think how many times we have used this before and now there are heat guns to help the process!

I copied and pasted the info that caught my eye.

Here is the site.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/820649-overview

Causes
The major risks are occupational exposure and close proximity to an industrial incident.

•Present day exposures described in literature are caused by the combustion products from chlorinated chemicals (eg, methylene chloride, trichloroethylene).
•Welding metals recently treated with degreasers, such as trichloroethylene, may produce phosgene. Solvents used for degreasing purposes should be stored more than 200 feet from a welding arc, as the exposure to UV light can create phosgene by photodegradation.
•Use of methylene chloride, a commonly used chemical paint remover, near a heat source allows the release of phosgene.
•Carbon monoxide is released in vivo as a metabolic product of methylene chloride.
•Phosgene is a breakdown product of chloroform that is stored for more than 6 months, even if the chloroform is stabilized with amylene.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:47 pm

Makes me wonder what that Easy Off Oven Cleaner does???

Wasn't Hitler gassed in WWI? Maybe that is where his demeaner came from....

Beaker · Post by **Beaker** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:00 pm

More hysteria and chemopobia. Its about as silly as gunophobia. BTW don't forget about lead posioning when casting bullets.

pdentrem · Post by **pdentrem** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:24 pm

No response required

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed May 04, 2011 12:46 pm

BlaineG wrote:I was told that the non clorinated brake cleaner was ok and not dangerous....yes? no? I've put on rubber gloves and sprayed the heck out of stuff many times...Can't say I've every been normal, but I didn't notice any ill effect...

Blaine, I've always heard that breathing the fumes makes one cantankerous...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed May 04, 2011 4:31 pm

I can attest to the fact that aerosol break cleaner, regardless of the type will give you an instant sharp screaming headache if you inhale too much of it. There is little warning one moment you're fine and dandy and the next your head's in a vise.
The only difference is use the stuff in a well ventilated area. I still use it, I buy it buy the case. I know the risks and I work with them.

I've never cleaned gun bores with it, although I have cleaned out the innards of my IPSC match 1911a1 lots of time.

Joe

Chas. · Post by **Chas.** » Wed May 04, 2011 4:40 pm

I've cleaned the bores of handguns and wow, it works - right now. Whenever I clean the receiver with brake cleaner, I just shoot it down the bore as well. However, I never use it indoors, always outdoors - even when bitter cold out.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Thu May 05, 2011 12:00 am

Good advice for those (like me) who have purchased brake cleaner or carburetor cleaner, upon the advice of a mechanic or shooter, to clean the lube / Liquid Alox / gun out of reloading dies!

Wrangler John · Post by **Wrangler John** » Sun May 08, 2011 7:36 am

I use non-aerosol Berryman's B-12 Chemtool carburetor cleaner (California formulation), no problem on guns or welding. Wear Nytrile gloves when cleaning.

When I was a welder fabricating tons of steel daily, or repairing heavy construction equipment, there was one rule - shop ventilation fan on, magnetic evacuation fan hose in place near weld, NIOSH approved respirator mask under hood and ear plugs (surprisingly the MIG torch ran at 94 db as measured by our industrial hygienist). MIG welding of steel used CO2 flux gas, cheaper, quieter and less reactive than mixed gas. Used Blue Streak mix for stainless. Some alloy wire or electrodes can kill you quick without proper safety gear and precautions. Stellite hard facing hollow core wire for example contains cobalt which can poison your lungs rapidly. Smoke from coated electrodes also may contain alloying elements - the smoke is never good to breathe under any circumstances. Even my mother had a bad case of metal fume poisoning from welding in the shipyard during WW II, when safety practices weren't as strict as today.

Also, wear Nytrile gloves when handling any of the gun cleaning solvents, even the "safe" biodegradable stuff - it all is absorbed through the skin. Another thought is to wear gloves, or at least wash your hands twice when cleaning primer pockets - that black residue contains lead compounds.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:39 am

Wrangler John wrote:...[Lotsa good info and...]...
Also, wear Nytrile gloves when handling any of the gun cleaning solvents, even the "safe" biodegradable stuff - it all is absorbed through the skin. Another thought is to wear gloves, or at least wash your hands twice when cleaning primer pockets - that black residue contains lead compounds.

Thanks, Wrangler John. Taking notes.