special order or fake?

[pokey]

what say ye?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =135569776

forearm wood doesn't fit as well as i'd like. but....

[Kansas Ed]

IF it was legit, he would have offered proof of such. There are more things wrong with that rifle than I can name. Caveat Emptor....IE: BS walks and talks....

Ed

[Gun Smith]

It appears to me to be a cut down (magazine) carbine. The front sight is set back for the front barrel band. The buttstock COULD be original, but I would like to see a Cody letter on that one. It looks as though the wood has been refinished, too.
Kind of reminds me of the "all original" gun on GB last week or so that was being sold by an ex-con female ?, and later a completely different listing the second time around.
What else is wrong in the picture for our education?

[20cows]

Detachable sling swivles?

[jdad]

The rifle will letter and that's the only way to prove the original configuration.

[Buck Elliott]

Detachable sling swivles?

Yup. That WAS a factory option. The sling was equipped with hooks that fit the bases on the rifle.

There is no cut on the barrel for a 'carbine' front band.

Remember -- almost anything could be had from Winchester, for a price.

[Pete44ru]

[what say ye?]

It COULD BE a gennie.

My 1907-made .32-20 Model 1892 looked almost exactly like that .38-55, with factory button mag, rifle butt and carbine front/rear sights.

.

[71fan]

That rifle is too late to letter.

It could be correct, but not likely. Closer inspection is required for the following:
The two pieces of wood don't match - the finish and color are different, and the forend is sanded below the metal, while the butt is proud.
The mag tube bluing is different color than the barrel - could be a replacement.
It would be very unusual for a rifle butt to be on a SRC

I do believe the front end configuration may be correct - half mag and barrel look OK. I am guessing replacement butt stock and mag tube, maybe even forend, band, and mag cap.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Though someone may have done it, I can't imagine special ordering a rifle buttstock on a carbine. I would bet against that one given some of the other issues already mentioned.

[Kansas Ed]

My initial response may have been hasty. I was looking for something which I thought was incorrect, and stumbled across this...
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.a ... =135759209

So, while I would still demand a letter for that kind of money, I may have been wrong on my first post.

Ed

[pokey]

My initial response may have been hasty. I was looking for something which I thought was incorrect, and stumbled across this...
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.a ... =135759209

So, while I would still demand a letter for that kind of money, I may have been wrong on my first post.

Ed

see now, that one looks more correct to me.
aside from the marbles folding rear, it looks right to me,
not the kind of condition i would pay that much for though.

[J Miller]

It's a fake. Look real close at picture #5. Right in front of the front sight is the tracks were the original front barrel band was. It's somebodies kitchen table classic.

win94b.jpg

I wouldn't buy it even if I did have the money.

Joe

[buckeyeshooter]

Thanks guys, its educational to see these posted.

[Mike D.]

It is not all that unusual to see SRCs with rifle butts, especially the 1894s. As suggested, that gun is a cobbled together piece that seller probably knew was too high a number to letter. Records for the '94 end at number 353999. Sadly, this type of BS is becoming commonplace in the collectable firearm market. Fakes have been around for decades, but the problem appears to be escalating. This market has always been a buyer beware and be aware situation.

[rangerider7]

Here is one that is similar that I own. It came from the original owner that ordered it this way. I don't know if it will help.

[Old Ironsights]

Not knowing any better, I expect the answer could be "Both".

Might be Special Order (Saddle Ring) and modified (mag & wood). Can't say, but it would still technically make it a "special order"...

[Gun Smith]

The guy shoots 2.5" groups offhand at 100 yards. Those are one shot groups by the way.

[bogus bill]

While some of us have opinions for and nay, I lean for! Joes eyes must be better than mine as I dont see what he does. I do belive the stock could be refinished. Had I lived in those days when you could special order, I would have special ordered that stock too as I am a big guy. I just am not that big of a pestimist on this rifle as most of you.

[marlinman93]

I have no opinion as to it's legitimacy, but I always cringe when a gun that can't be lettered is offered up with special features. Seems that sort of thing is quite common, and I wonder how many special order guns were made after records stopped?

[Mike D.]

The answer is many more than we realise. Special order guns didn't cease because records were lost. The situation is that some folks are able to do the equivalent of photoshop with guns. They can create an illusion of what could be factory work. We must enter the arena with eyes open and make the determination for ouselves whether or not a gun is "good".

[Kansas Ed]

Curious, but I thought 1908 production was still in the records? When did the individual records stop?

Ed

[71fan]

Curious, but I thought 1908 production was still in the records? When did the individual records stop?

Ed

Here you go: http://www.bbhc.org/firearms/CFMSerialN ... t_2008.pdf

The last recorded 1894 is around serial 354,000. This corresponds to 1906 by Madis' numbers, but we now know Madis' numbers were off by as much as 3 years. Anyway, the number is what matters, not the year - nothing past 354k.