Buffalo Hunt and bullet experimentation results

[86er]

My mouth was dry enough without the sand in it. I could feel the grit if I moved my teeth around. I could taste it too. I shouldn't have licked my upper lip - I now taste salt and sand plus the sand dust is sticking under my nose now. The 100 plus degree temperature is bearable since we have something more serious to worry about. We make an approach right towards the buffalo. I whisper some information but there is no reaction from Ricky or Charles because there ears are packed full of foam. I grab CRS and point to the buff. The beast spins 360's and stares down at us as we close the distance. We are in range but this is uncoordinated. The hunters cannot hear me and I cannot try to raise my volume for fear of inciting the buffalo. This buffalo has already charged and damaged a truck, some ranch equipment and without damage, chased two people. The buffalo stamps the ground raising a cloud of dust that alerts other animals nearby. Those animals begin to depart and the buff decides to follow their lead. We regroup, make a plan and try again. Two stalks result in glimpses of buffalo tail. The wind is swirling and it is very dry. We search again. Although we are making every effort to be quiet every footstep sounds like thunder to me through my applified Walkers Game Ears. The noise is so loud it could easily lead to pananoia if I obsess about it. Grrruhhh! Charles lets it be known that he just heard the buffalo grunt at us perfectly clear through his expanded foam earplugs. We settle into a nook where the buffalo will likely end up. Minutes go by slowly as the suns radiation penetrates our skin mercilessly. I hear noise not unlike a railroad train that is not stopping at this station. The Game Ear really needs to be turned down so I can get a better location of the sounds it is emphasizing, but the heat has me dragging just enough that I am too lazy to adjust it, conserving every drop of energy in case I need it quickly if something goes wrong. Whats that? The buffalo are close. I see little dust clouds rising less than 10 yards away. I see our opponent and would love for Charles to shoot, but he does not see it and we are strung out through the nook with Ricky in the back while I am in the front. The smaller of two buffalo joins us in the nook less than 15 feet away. It is getting dark and this is getting dangerous. We ease out of the nook when it seem the big buffalo is distracted. They become aware of our presence but refuse to leave and are determined to stand off against us. It is REALLY getting dark. Darn it - try again tomorrow and better safe than sorry. 6AM the alarms makes me realize it is time to get up, but it didn't wake me as I was already up for quite a while. 6:30AM I meet up with Ricky and Charles and we make another plan. The buffalo is where we had hoped. We ease towards the buff - there are two among some other animals. We need to step into the open to string out 3 across so we can all shoot. I pull CRS by the shoulder. Closer, closer. At 40 yards we have to step out in be in the open to make this happen. It will also make us vulnerable to the buffalo is it determines we are crossing the boundary between annoying and intollerable. The buff lowers its head and quarters towards us and to the right. We have no where to go should the buff come our way. A shot rings out from CRS's 405 Win and I hear the bullet hit at the same time the buffalo turns its head in line with the rest of its body. Ricky sends a 250 grain Kodiak from his 348 Win and the resounding whack is a good sound. We cannot afford to let this buff get out of sight wounded so we agreed that once gun barrels smoked I would put in a shot in hopes of anchoring the beast. I shoot a 380 grain Rhino from the 375 Win into the top of the fatal triangle that is predominant on Cape Buffalo. 25% of this buffalos genetics are Southern Buffalo aka Cape and the fatal triangle is pronounced on its side. Faster than its has taken to describe these three shots it is silent and the buffalo is down without even taking one step. We quickly move in. Any time a buffalo drops like it was struck by lightning I assume it is from a spinal hit and that it is still alive. Ricky shoot a few shots into the brachial plexis while Charles and I each fire one into the solar plexis. I pull some grass and give the glorious beast its last meal while whispering a little prayer. The guts are removed to lighted the load. In short order we are back at the lodge and I go to work to find the bullets. There are four bullets in the hide, 2 .348 Win bullets that are 250 grain Kodiaks. I measure the entrance hole to bullet and get 22" and 25 ". They are neat little mushrooms that look like they could be used for an advertisement. The other 2 are 405 Win bullets that are Northfork 300 gr cup point solids. The cupped cavity is flattened and deformed but they are otherwise uneffected by events. The too have travelled around 24". After a complete skinning, another Northfork 405 Win is found. It had gone thought the top of the lungs and into the backstrap just over two feet from the point of entry. One 375 caliber Rhino is located. It hit the top of the fatal triangle and continued across the animal, diagnolly while breaking a vertebrae and coming to rest under the spine of the off side. Total penetration was in the low 30 inch range. I know there is another 380 gr Rhino somewhere in this buff so Ricky and I go back to the gut pile with a hook, hoe, knife and metal detector. After a few false alarms and a couple of hits on small pieces of copper from CRS' Northforks, we locate the Rhino in the 3rd rumen. It is a perfect X with a long shaft still remaining. We measure the penetration at over 5 feet. A couple of observations. The 348 Win is no buffalo gun but with those 250 grain Kodiaks you could kill a buffalo with a well placed shot, follow up shots and a little bit of waiting. The penetration and integrity of the bullets was great and they would be the bomb on big bears, elk and similar sized animals up to 100 and change yards and such. Unfortunately, the 405 Win as it is in no buffalo gun either. I have seen 6 animal shot with such caliber and the results are consistent. The 300 grain bullets do not have the sectional density and momentum for good penetration due to the lack of initial weight. I really think it would be better to use a 400 grain bullet at 1700 something FPS than the 300 gr at 2100 fps+. I know Rooselvelt used on but he was firing rounds all over the veldt. Larry Potterfield used his 405 for buffalo and lion with little fanfare. If someone were to be serious about using it for big heavy game I highly recommend having the rifle modified to handle the longer 400 gr bullets, or converting it to 9.3X62. Frankly, I will not let a client use a 405 in Africa for dangerous game and I am reluctant on water buffalo too because odds are it will turn dangerous, I will have to add lead to your animal or we will be running and gunning for a while before getting the buff down. I'd prefer to see a client with a 45-70 is standard factory loadings were to be used in each gun. The 375 H&H get a heavy dose of adrenaline when stoked with 380 gr Rhinos. The visual effect including the visual shock wave is akin to a .40 caliber rifle. It pushed the old cartridge up to the stopping rifle line but not much over it. The Rhino bullets work as advertised consistently as weve seen in test and actual applications. The buff weighed in excess of 1500 pounds. Heres the "pin cushion":

This is the fatal triangle on our buff (taken from the opposite side the shots were fired from).


CRS and RKrodle with the trophy:


The group photo:


The Rhino Bullets:




348 Winchester 250 Grain Kodiaks:



405 Win 300 gr Cup Point Solid Northforks:

[rjohns94]

great report and results Joe. Well done to CRS and Ricky too. Looks like a great time was had by all. We will have to get together and see how the 475 Linebaugh does on one of those some day.

[Tycer]

Great report!

I'd like to see how the hardcast LBT 460-450-wfn 45-70s do at 1675 fps. Maybe someday.

[2ndovc]

Really awsome Guys! Darn that sounds ike fun!

Great story Joe!!

jb

[Hobie]

Hey, did I see a smile on 86er's face? Great post!!!!

[Ysabel Kid]

Wow! Excellent hunt report! Congratulations all!!!

[Old Savage]

Very interesting report, as this about the top it seems of what most will likely see action in if they have the desire.

So Joe, what are your top levergun picks for this sort of work - rifle and ammo?

[RKrodle]

What a whirl wind weekend, WOW. Needless to say we had a great time. First let me thank 86er and Richard for hosting us this weekend, and what great host they are, and Robbie for all his hard work. CRS and I road down together Friday and meet 86er and Richard at the ranch. It was a nice ride down other than the traffic trying to get through Austin. We had a great time catching up on our story telling. The temp was still well above 100 F when started making plans and decided to grab some supper and let the temps come down before heading out after the buff, so we headed to town for some BBQ. We where meet there by Richards lovely wife and daughter, they add grace and beauty to any setting. The Hondo area is suffering from a tough drought and we had a good dose of dust for desert. As we were trying to make our stalks some storms were trying to brew up and it started kicking up a swirling wind. One minute the wind was in our face and then the next it was at our back making it tough to sneak up on anything. With the wind and late start it was just not enough daylight left Friday to get it done. So we called it a day due to lack of light, couldn't see our sights well enough for the shots we needed to take. We went to Richard’s house and talked guns and hunting til it was past time to hit the rack. Up early at the bunk house CRS and I had our morning Diet Dr. Pepper and waited for 86er, Richard and Robbie to arrive.
A few things about the cartridges selected by us. We each selected a cartridge that we wanted to test on something heavy and tough, not necessarily what was the idea cartridge. The 375 H&H Joe used is a proven killer in Africa along with the Rhino bullets and from our own testing in wet news print we had a pretty good idea of what to expect from it and it delivered very nicely, nothing unexpected. I chose my 348 Winchester using Grizzly Cartridge ammo with a 250 Kodiak bonded bullet for a couple of reasons. First I wanted to see what it would do pushed to its limit and with two other armed and competent hunters as backup if needed I don’t believe it was a bad idea. Second I promised Mike Rintoul at Grizzly that I would recover a bullet for him and as of yet I was not able to find an animal to stop one of these fine bullets long enough for me to recover one. Well, that Buffalo was tough enough to stop them. As seen in the above pictures the bullets performed very well. I am impressed with the penetration of this bullet in such a tough animal. No, I don’t have any plans to take my 71 on a dangerous game hunt in Africa or anyplace else but, under a semi controlled condition… I figured I could out run CRS to the nearest tree since I was the closest to one... it was a hoot to whack a big old mean animal with my Winchester Model 71 and feel like I was standing on the hot windswept plains of Africa beside Theodore Roosevelt with his 1895 Winchester chambered in the Big Medicine of the 405 WCF being backed up by our PH.

[Grizz]

That's a great post. I love it that you guys used three different rifles and bullet combinations. That's really useful and relevant information.

Thanks again

Grizz

[KirkD]

Fascinating report. Thanks for posting it and the photos.

[madman4570]

Fantastic Posts! What a deal on that one!
I dont know why I hesitated on that when it first was posted?
Congrads to CRS,Joe,Ricky! Very well done!
It even looks like you guys are in Africa there.


CRS------Come on --we also need your story on this! You lucky devil you

[RKrodle]

Oh the real FUN was looking for that last Rhino bullet. The gut pile had been setting in the 100 degree heat for about two hours by the time we figured out the bullet had to be there. So off we go with the hoe, hook, knife and metal detector. We interrupted the buzzards from their snack to search though it. But we persevered and found it so we could post pretty pictures .

[madman4570]

NOW!!! Thats what I call doing anything and going above and beyond to please your customer and future customers!
Hats off to you guys!

[86er]

OS asked what rifle, caliber I recommend for really big stuff, and I think it is implied, potentially dangerous. The
following is a consideration for client rifles. As far as lever action rifles, an 1886 or 71 is my first choice for no other reason than you can get in the action easier with the bolt open. There are subtle advantages to an '86 over a side eject, such as not hitting the guy next to you with brass that might be distracting in tense moments, and being able to quickly hand feed one more round directly into the chamber when empty. A Marlin should be well used, have the bearclaw ejector and an aluminum or titanium mag follower. Every round must be checked by feeding it from the mag into the chamber and ejecting it live to make sure there are no issues. First choice in caliber that is readily available would be 45-90 with proven handloads of 450 grain expanding and solid bullets at 1900 + fps. A great, proven caliber is the 450 3 1/4 inch NE. It shoots a 480 grain .458 bullet at 2150. The 45-90 with 450 gr loads is as close as practical but still falls short. The problem with 450 gr expanding bullet from 45-90 is that most were meant to expand at more velocity. The Barnes X in 450 gr works pretty good at 1900+ fps. The 45-70 is great on buffalo with 405 grain Kodiak bullets and 405 grain Punch bullets up to 50 yards. The 430 grain Punch and 450 grain Northfork solid are good but there are no expanding bullets to match so I would stay away from them. It is important to use an expanding and solid that have the same point of impact. The Barnes "O" and Buster in 405 gr seem to be a good combination. The various 50's, 50AK and 50-110 with 525 gr loads at 1900 fps are good. You must use the heavy jacket Hawks or Kodiaks to get them to expand at that velocity. The penetration is not outstanding but the gaping hole is impressive. Either a 458 or 50 diameter caliber would be okay on buffalo with 420 grain + hardcast bullets too. They will penetrate adequately at close range and deform enough to cause some wound channel growth over caliber diameter. Do not expect pass-throughs. To make a dream come true I'd let someone use their 348 or 358, .33 Win or something similiar. There are few if any solids available for these so you would have to consent to back -up shots or switching to a different rifle if approaching a potentially wounded animal. Unlike most PH's and common practice among hunters I don't wait the 1/2 hour to pursue potentially wounded game. I think it is unfair and unsporting to let an animal suffer under these type conditions. Therefore, you have to be prepared, equipment wise, mentally and physically to "fix the problem". Shooting the snot out of something over and over is killing, not hunting in the true sense. I'd rather get close, and end what we started. There is some risk involved but confidence and skill prevail. Any lever rifle in 375 Scovill, 411 Hawk, 9.3X62 405 Win capable of shooting 400 gr bullets - would work fine. I really like Nosler Partitions, but NOT on buffalo. Losing the frontal portion causes good fatal wounds on light skinned animals, but it loses too much weight to continue penetrating on buffalo. Swift A Frames are good because the bonding retains the weight. I will pretty much permit shooting a buffalo in the states with any reasonable caliber, 30-06, 454 Casull, whatever but I will change the hunt to make the circumstances safe for the client and we will conduct the follow up in a completely different manner with me in the lead. Did I answer the question?

[20cows]

Wow!

[dr walker]

Great post, I enjoy hearing how the bullets hold up and the photos are a bonus. Thanks for keeping us all informed.

[1886]

Great stuff Joe. 1886.

[kimwcook]

Now that sounds like fun. Great story and pics. And, as Hobie eluded to, I do think Joe is cracking a smile. Imagine that.

[huntress]

Yes, I do believe that the always stoic Joe is smiling! Great story Joe. Sounds like you guys had a lot of fun trying to get your prize.
Sandy

[Old Savage]

Joe - classic info I am sure. Now to narrow the question. If you have a Marlin 45-70 what is the best choice? And, when you say buffalo, you mention a couple of types and crosses and there is the bison. What are we talking about and to be sure I think many hear appreciate you info?.


And again, if I had bought this and that is what I had, a friend and I were considering this, what would you want to see me use in the Marlin 45-70. My other choice of my options would be a 35 Whelen.

[86er]

Joe - classic info I am sure. Now to narrow the question. If you have a Marlin 45-70 what is the best choice? And, when you say buffalo, you mention a couple of types and crosses and there is the bison. What are we talking about and to be sure I think many hear appreciate you info?.
And again, if I had bought this and that is what I had, a friend and I were considering this, what would you want to see me use in the Marlin 45-70. My other choice of my options would be a 35 Whelen.

I'd be totally confident including following up the animal if it ran, if you had 405 gr Kodiak preceeding 405 Punch solid, both loaded right at 2000 fps. If you could get the 430 grain Punch or the NF 450 gr going 1725 fps or so that'd do. The 405 Woodleigh Weldcore can be loaded to 1980 fps safely in a 2.55" oal that should work in the Marlin. A 350 grain soft and solid combo at 2100 would work for a broadside close range shot but I wouldn't rely on it for bad angles and back up shots where the utmost penetration is required. Cast bullets like the 460 gr Cast Performance at 1800 fps are decent. If you could make a 360 grain Rhino magically appear I'd love to try it. Really heavy cast bullets like 500's and 540's will do.

As far as the animals, bison are rarely aggressive even when wounded, but of course they can be. It is much easier to identify and hit the high shoulder spinal shot on the bison due to the upward sweep of the neck and the hump. That will anchor the animal with any good bullet and a finisher could be swiftly applied. The bisons pelvic is umbrella shaped and the leg connects towards the middle. This makes a higher probability that a going away shot will hit meat and penetrate instead of hitting bone and going off course or slowing up. Not so with the Southern buffalo, water and hybrids. The Southern buffalo are poor water processors, as is evident from their very wet poop. The physiological result, as you can appreciate, is that the flesh is more dense and the fiberous composition in more tightly woven on a Southern Buff than a bison. Bison are at least average water processors among the ruminant species. Their flesh is thereby composed of a higher concentration of water than southern buff or water buff. A bisons flesh moves out of the way by expansion through elasticity when a bullet travels through it to a much greater extent that a true buffalos flesh "gives". The bottom line is that the bison, even at a greater overall body weight, is gentler on bullets than the buffalo are.

Oh and the 35 Whelen would be no more effective that any of the aforementioned cartridges and quite possibly less effective due to the insignificant gain in sectional density and momentum with that .35 bullet. Now if you could load a 275 or 290 grain premium bullet at around 2300 if would likely excel.

[Old Savage]

Thanks Joe, appreciate your info. BTW my 35 Whelen would likely easily do that 250s can get 2600 in this custom with average loads - 55.0 gr of 4064 - 1 In 16" twist in a 24 ' barrel.

[flb]

Great story, of the modern bolt actions which do you consider the most realiable? Ruger, Rem etc? In the lever I'm sure Marlin.Thanks for sharing all this info.

[86er]

Great story, of the modern bolt actions which do you consider the most realiable? Ruger, Rem etc? In the lever I'm sure Marlin.Thanks for sharing all this info.

Sadly, very few if any modern medium and large bore bolt guns are Africa ready out of the box. In 375 or above, if you are going to shoot more than a sight in box and a few rounds at game, you must glass bed the stock and add one through bolt or it WILL crack. Most need the bolt/action slicked up, the floorplate reinforced and some other fine tuning. The open sights are often pitiful. The CZ 550 and 620's are a good platform to work with. So is a Zastava 98. The Ruger's (current generation) are good too but several have been reported to have failure to feed problems without tuning. Kimber is probably the best bet in a production rifle. You can get by with a Rem, Sako or such if you are the client and are going to play it safe. If you are willing to go in after wounded animals you should start with a really big cartridge to begin with, but you must have a Mauser 98 style action with full controlled round feed and ejection. This would be a new Mauser, a Empire Rifles Co., a Montanam, that's about it.

[crs]

crs report:
Sorry to be late, but we were busy most of Sunday at the farm wrapping and freezing a lot of buffalo steaks and roast. We discovered something of interest which I will mention later.
It was a whirlwind hunt, filled with lots of activity and fun; Ricky and I left my house at about 10 AM Friday and returned about 10 PM Saturday. It was also another learning experience with respect to the behavior of game animals.
It is always interesting to hear how multiple people remember a shared activity and I will try to avoid repeating the obvious (it was hot and dusty or the wind on our ear plugs played havoc with our hearing).
I do have the middle-man-in-the-stalking-line image of the almost dark view of the buffalo stepping into sight at close range just above Joe's left shoulder. I had plenty of time to shoot it in the "deadly triangle" before it stepped back into the brush, but I did not even raise the rifle because such a shot would have certainly deafened Joe if it did not actually hit him(much worse ).

My thanks to Joe and Ricky for them letting me fire first (age before beauty?). We were all ready to fire and were just waiting for the intervening animals to clear away. Joe may remember that he was whispering instructions as each critter moved about into and out of the line of fire. As the last one made it to safety and the buffalo cow lined up to follow, I remembered a suggestion Joe had made on a previous hunt "To get on target quickly, line up with the front leg and raise the rifle, fire as the sights reach 1/3 of the way above the brisket line" (not an exact quote, but the essence of the the advice). I did exactly this and squeezed the trigger on my 1895 - I saw the .405 300 grain NF CPS hit right where I was looking and as the rifle recoiled, saw the buffalo begin to drop forward as if the right front leg had been swept away from it(it had been shattered). As I levered in another round, Ricky and Joe fired in rapid succession and the buffalo kept falling down to it's right front and it hit the ground like a sack of potatoes; it's head hit so hard that dust flew from the impact. DRT was obvious, but we fired another volley into the brisket to be sure.
Since most of the rest of the buffalo experience has already been documented, I will share my "meat processors secret" now. The two front shoulder joints are all that the butcher did not bone out, so we did this Sunday after all the steaks and roasts had been wrapped and put in the freezer. As the meat was cut away a few inches below the joint, my wife remarked that there was no bone, just bone meal or dust. Sure enough, the meat over the bone area revealed a bullet hole and a cavity where the bullet had powdered the right front upper leg bone. No wonder the cow began to fall at the shot, the leg support just went away!


Now, my impression of the effect of my first shot with the .405, and remember, all people use the information at hand and make decisions based upon that. As stated, the 300 grain NF CPS hit the upper right leg bone and powdered it. It then passed through the right side rib cage, the internals (lung, heart ?) and the left side rib cage, leaving a two inch hole in each rib cage and associated flesh. The bullet was found lying flat under the offside skin and may have made such large holes due to turning sideways when it decimated the leg bone. It was in a line to have hit the heart (there was one bullet hole in the heart), but whether it did or not, it did enough damage to put down and kill the buffalo.

There! I said it! It is what I observed and want believe. I also believe that the first shot from Joe or Ricky would have done in the buffalo had they gone first. It is nice to hunt with folks that you can trust. All things considered, I would gladly use the same rifle/ammo combination (.405 300 grain BF CPS at 2250 fps) again on such a critter. Naturally, I want to be hunting with friends that I trust to handle matters should they get out of hand. Also, there is no doubt that a 400 grain .405 bullet would have greater sectional density and penetrate very well and I plan to work up such loads with Hornady .410 DGS bullets, but DRT is still DRT and shot placement and premium bullets do make a difference.

BTW, did I tell you that the buffalo skull is now resting on a red ant bed by the road into the ranch where it will be apparent when the ants have it cleaned up and ready for display?

[madman4570]

Great post crs,
There is a lot of good useful info there.Sounds like a great hunt you had!

[Old Savage]

I have enjoyed reading this and it is all the more interesting from multiple perspectives. It seems and rightfully so that crs sees it as an incapacitating/killing shot. With the post action dissection that appears to be true. It also occurs to me that constantly at the top of Joe's mind is the safety of the hunters in the heat of what could possibly happen. Of course at that time you can't tell exactly what has happened and he wants the definite margin of safety in the hands of the PH if not the hunter with stopping power. I don't think those views are at odds and I know these fellows are good friends. Thanks again fellows.

[Birdman]

We should listen up here. We got years of experience chipping in on this. Thanks to you all.

[Nath]

What a fantastic read guy's. Well done.

Say now, have you ever seen what a 12g hard cast trunacated slug fixed to a wad would do to one of them Buffs?
I often wonder how 1 1/2 oz of hard lead around 1400fps from a reliable Rem 870 etc.
Years ago we made some up on a good dose of blue dot and shot them out of an 870 smooth bore with light choke and we concluded that recoil apart it would make a good buff combo this side of 50yds, any experiance 86er?

Nath.