Over vacation saw a Discovery Channel show about how Alaska was a tropical forest some 50,000 years ago, then (cue the ominous, 'cold' music) some 10,000 years of extreme cold buried it all under thousands of feet of ice.
OK so far.
Then (shift to even more ominous music) it says "Now, this natural beauty is threatened with destruction by GLOBAL WARMING..."
1. I don't get it - if 'global warming' is 'destroying' the Glaciered Alaska, didn't 'global cooling' destroy the Tropical Alaska...? Which is the 'real' Alaska...? Wouldn't the Environmentalists of 50,000 years ago argue that we're merely 'restoring' the natural habitat...? Could it be that as humans, we may 'dominate' the Earth, but don't get the right to say what is 'normal' climate...? We don't get the privilege of dictating to God and Mother Nature that the Earth has to be locked into whatever state it is in now that our great scientific Environmentalists know ALL...?
2. The way I figure it, Earth got some message in a bottle (probably Ted Kennedy's empty booze bottle) that Bush was going to be elected, and got the 'warming' started 50,000 years ago, creating the awful rainforest in Alaska, but when Earth realized the election wasn't for 50,000 years, cooled back down, only to re-warm now that Bush is president. After all, Democrats have NO interest in industry or oil, and they consume no resources at all, compared to those nasty, heat-generating Republicans.
POLITICS - Gullible Warming
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AJMD429
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POLITICS - Gullible Warming
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
I saw that "Fearless Planet" thing too. They repeated episode to episode. Poor logic used, heh? Dittos on their other comments vis-a-vis glowbull warming. While they negated their own view they had to express it.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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Comal Forge
- Levergunner 2.0
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I'm getting weary of the debate but for different reasons. IMHO, here are some reasonably unarguable conclusions:
Unless you care to say the planet is only 10,000 years old (which I can't argue with), it seems pretty clear the earth has gone through a multitude of climate changes ranging from tropical to ice ages. For better or worse, no matter the root cause, these changes affected both flora and fauna.
Therefore, whether or not we can control the environment, if it changes much, there will be consequences to the food supply. For the first time in human history and only since about WW2 or so, a lot of people (mostly in Western society) have enough to eat. The obesity statistics bear that out. Prior to that, a lot of folks starved to death and still do in some parts of the planet. Several members of my family lived through the Depression and they said hunger was always knocking at the door - even though most of them were farmers. Based on pictures of the soup lines, city folks probably had a rougher time.
So, the global population increases daily and we live in a largely urban world where a relatively few individuals are assigned to feed us every single day. If those people can't raise wheat and corn, the whole food supply will break down. For example, corn has a fairly narrow temperature range where it is highly productive. If the earth warms (or cools) more than a few degrees, the effective growth zone would shift latitudes and the nation's bread basket might no longer support the demand. Maybe we'll grow melons in Alaska in December or maybe we'll pick cauliflower in Mexico during July - I really can't say.
I'm certain all the self sufficient country folk who can "skin a buck and run a trotline" subscribe to this forum but in any case, I think everyone is in for a CHANGE. It will be good for some and bad for others. Perhaps all the polar bears and walruses will die off - but who will really care if our bellies are howling?
The Bible has many stories where prophets were stoned for preaching what the people didn't want to hear. It's obvous society hasn't changed much since then but it's possible some of us might live long enough to wake up one day and wonder what happened. The big problem is that no matter how fast the climate changes, our short attention spans can't see it but for my part, I will make an earnest effort not to contribute to the pollution of this earth. Your mileage may vary...
Unless you care to say the planet is only 10,000 years old (which I can't argue with), it seems pretty clear the earth has gone through a multitude of climate changes ranging from tropical to ice ages. For better or worse, no matter the root cause, these changes affected both flora and fauna.
Therefore, whether or not we can control the environment, if it changes much, there will be consequences to the food supply. For the first time in human history and only since about WW2 or so, a lot of people (mostly in Western society) have enough to eat. The obesity statistics bear that out. Prior to that, a lot of folks starved to death and still do in some parts of the planet. Several members of my family lived through the Depression and they said hunger was always knocking at the door - even though most of them were farmers. Based on pictures of the soup lines, city folks probably had a rougher time.
So, the global population increases daily and we live in a largely urban world where a relatively few individuals are assigned to feed us every single day. If those people can't raise wheat and corn, the whole food supply will break down. For example, corn has a fairly narrow temperature range where it is highly productive. If the earth warms (or cools) more than a few degrees, the effective growth zone would shift latitudes and the nation's bread basket might no longer support the demand. Maybe we'll grow melons in Alaska in December or maybe we'll pick cauliflower in Mexico during July - I really can't say.
I'm certain all the self sufficient country folk who can "skin a buck and run a trotline" subscribe to this forum but in any case, I think everyone is in for a CHANGE. It will be good for some and bad for others. Perhaps all the polar bears and walruses will die off - but who will really care if our bellies are howling?
The Bible has many stories where prophets were stoned for preaching what the people didn't want to hear. It's obvous society hasn't changed much since then but it's possible some of us might live long enough to wake up one day and wonder what happened. The big problem is that no matter how fast the climate changes, our short attention spans can't see it but for my part, I will make an earnest effort not to contribute to the pollution of this earth. Your mileage may vary...
CF raises some very good points.
I for one try to not be "dirty" and use a gas-guzzler, but not because of this supposed "man-made" climate shift. I simply do not like extra fumes in the air. I think they cause higher cancer rates.
Big oil will do what they can to keep us munching along like good sheep eating up their product, and nobody who becomes "President" can do much to change that.
I still think Al Gore is a jackass, and the Dems are capitolizing on a natural occurance to oust the Republicans at any cost.
Sick, when you consider all of the cancer around due to exhaust fumes of all kinds, and they're all yelling about the ice caps.
Ironic, but sick.
I for one try to not be "dirty" and use a gas-guzzler, but not because of this supposed "man-made" climate shift. I simply do not like extra fumes in the air. I think they cause higher cancer rates.
Big oil will do what they can to keep us munching along like good sheep eating up their product, and nobody who becomes "President" can do much to change that.
I still think Al Gore is a jackass, and the Dems are capitolizing on a natural occurance to oust the Republicans at any cost.
Sick, when you consider all of the cancer around due to exhaust fumes of all kinds, and they're all yelling about the ice caps.
Ironic, but sick.
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Ysabel Kid
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Antartica was once a forest as well. Guess that is somehow Bush's/America's/Capitalism's fault too!
AJMD429 & Hobie - Thanks for the "head's up" on the Discovery Channel's "Fearless Planet". I taped the 6 hours of back-to-back shows a couple weeks ago to watch later. You just saved me the time! Too bad, because I love nature shows. I don't need to be lectured though on this psuedo-science/hoky-religion garbage.
Most folks with common sense look up into the sky and realize that there is a big ol' ball of burning gas that has more impact on our climate than anything else. Last time I check, nothing we do or don't do have any impact at all on the Sun. Then again, I'm sure the leftist/anti-capitalists/anti-American Democrats blame Bush for that too!
AJMD429 & Hobie - Thanks for the "head's up" on the Discovery Channel's "Fearless Planet". I taped the 6 hours of back-to-back shows a couple weeks ago to watch later. You just saved me the time! Too bad, because I love nature shows. I don't need to be lectured though on this psuedo-science/hoky-religion garbage.
Most folks with common sense look up into the sky and realize that there is a big ol' ball of burning gas that has more impact on our climate than anything else. Last time I check, nothing we do or don't do have any impact at all on the Sun. Then again, I'm sure the leftist/anti-capitalists/anti-American Democrats blame Bush for that too!
Yep love how it is all our fault.
Here are some numbers 10K years ago the last ice age ended. 20K years ago we weren't the only species of human on the planet. 65M years ago average planet temps on the planet were high enough for dinosuars to live on Antarctica. Over 250M years ago at the rise of the age of dinos oxigen levels on this planet were the lowest on record and most of the land mass was desert. I have yet to hear a scientist that debates this info.
Here are some numbers 10K years ago the last ice age ended. 20K years ago we weren't the only species of human on the planet. 65M years ago average planet temps on the planet were high enough for dinosuars to live on Antarctica. Over 250M years ago at the rise of the age of dinos oxigen levels on this planet were the lowest on record and most of the land mass was desert. I have yet to hear a scientist that debates this info.
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
"I for one try to not be "dirty" and use a gas-guzzler"
Me too, I can't afford it. We just traded our 2005 Mustang for a Toyota Yaris. The "green" I'm most concerned about was in my (now empty) wallet.
Me too, I can't afford it. We just traded our 2005 Mustang for a Toyota Yaris. The "green" I'm most concerned about was in my (now empty) wallet.
"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."~Calvin Rutstrum~
"You come to the swamp, you better leave your skirt at the house"~Dave Canterbury~
"You come to the swamp, you better leave your skirt at the house"~Dave Canterbury~
YK,Ysabel Kid wrote:Antartica was once a forest as well. Guess that is somehow Bush's/America's/Capitalism's fault too!
AJMD429 & Hobie - Thanks for the "head's up" on the Discovery Channel's "Fearless Planet". I taped the 6 hours of back-to-back shows a couple weeks ago to watch later. You just saved me the time! Too bad, because I love nature shows. I don't need to be lectured though on this psuedo-science/hoky-religion garbage.
Most folks with common sense look up into the sky and realize that there is a big ol' ball of burning gas that has more impact on our climate than anything else. Last time I check, nothing we do or don't do have any impact at all on the Sun. Then again, I'm sure the leftist/anti-capitalists/anti-American Democrats blame Bush for that too!
It is worth watching, you just need to have your "filters" on. As I said, they tell the truth and then have to try and make it PC. Conflicted script writers I think. BEAUTIFUL IMAGES. I love to watch things that make me go ooooooh and aaaahhhhh...
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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Ysabel Kid
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bunklocoempire
- Senior Levergunner
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A simple Christians perspective (I like things simple!)
God creates world with a firmament (lotsa water in the atmosphere, no direct sunlight, no rainbows, lotsa green stuff/future oil, dinosaurs etc.)
Man's every desire is evil, God allows flood, firmament collapses, earth is covered in water.
God sends wind to dry things out, plenty evaporation, plenty cold = "ice age".
God gives a sign not to destroy earth again by water, (direct sunlight, rainbows)
Everything gets warmer from that point on. Now where is my grant?
Bunkloco
God creates world with a firmament (lotsa water in the atmosphere, no direct sunlight, no rainbows, lotsa green stuff/future oil, dinosaurs etc.)
Man's every desire is evil, God allows flood, firmament collapses, earth is covered in water.
God sends wind to dry things out, plenty evaporation, plenty cold = "ice age".
God gives a sign not to destroy earth again by water, (direct sunlight, rainbows)
Everything gets warmer from that point on. Now where is my grant?
Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul