OT Lipsey's 44 special Ruger

[BenT]

Someone in this crowd probably has ordered one of these. So I have a few questions . I've read articles on these with a lot of pretty pictures. I was planning on buying a Ruger blackhawk. So I have a few questions for those who are wise in the ways of Rugers.

I've never handled an old model 357 , so how much smaller is the frame size ?

The new model blackhawk is quite a hefty gun to be strapped to your hip for a day in the woods. So is their much of a weight difference ?

For those who have one of these Lipsey's Ruger's. I know they have a steel grip frame. How do they balance ? And is there much difference weight wise between it and a new model Blackhawk?

[J Miller]

Someone in this crowd probably has ordered one of these. So I have a few questions . I've read articles on these with a lot of pretty pictures. I was planning on buying a Ruger blackhawk. So I have a few questions for those who are wise in the ways of Rugers.

I've never handled an old model 357 , so how much smaller is the frame size ?

The new model blackhawk is quite a hefty gun to be strapped to your hip for a day in the woods. So is their much of a weight difference ?

For those who have one of these Lipsey's Ruger's. I know they have a steel grip frame. How do they balance ? And is there much difference weight wise between it and a new model Blackhawk?

Ben I don't have one, but I've read up on them quite a bit.

The frame of the new .44 Special BH is the same as the 50th Anniversary .357 FT.

The 4 5/8" barreled versions weights 42 ounces.

There is a lot of weight variation in NM BHs so it's hard to answer your question.
But for comparison my Uberti Cattleman, 45 Colt, all steel and wood, weighs 36 oz empty, 40 with 5 rounds in it.
As for the balance I've heard they are very good, but I haven't had the chance to handle one yet. I think Hobie has one.

Joe

[Hobie]

I have two of the Lipsey's .44 Flattops.

[Leverluver]

I have one on order but haven't received it yet. I guess I would have preferred it to be a little lighter but remember, a lot of the earlier Rugers had parts made from aluminum so they were lighter even though they were about the same size. I have seen Brian Pierce say that an original 357 Blackhawk converted to 44 Sp weighed 35-36 ozs. The new one is considerable heavier but I do recall that one of the complaints of the earlier Rugers was about the same aluminumn parts. I guess you can't please everyone and you can't make a light, all steel revolver. Tough to please, ain't we

[Cliff]

Have you checked out Jeff Quinn's write up on these Rugers on http://www.gunblast.com Look in the archives, he talks about the weight difference there. Was a good write up by the way. ATB

[Pete44ru]

[I've never handled an old model 357 , so how much smaller is the frame size ?] -
It is .20" shorter OAL ( 3.313"),
has a .050" smaller height (1.70") &
a .23" smaller length cylinder opening (1.760"),
with a cylinder .06" smaller in diameter (1.670"). Also, the front-to-back frame depth at the EJH is /073" shorter/thinner @ .087".

[The new model blackhawk is quite a hefty gun to be strapped to your hip for a day in the woods. So is their much of a weight difference ? ] -
The steel gripframed .44 weighs 42oz, and an alloy gripframed BH weighs 34oz - an 8oz difference.

[For those who have one of these Lipsey's Ruger's. I know they have a steel grip frame. How do they balance ?] - Great - exactly like a NV

[is there much difference weight wise between it and a new model Blackhawk?] - see above answer (2)
.

[thornblom]

I wonder how these .44 spcl Ruger Black Hawk revolvers would compare with my 3rd generation Colt New Frontier .44 spcl with 5 1/2" barrel.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

[Pete44ru]

[I wonder how these .44 spcl Ruger Black Hawk revolvers would compare with my 3rd generation Colt New Frontier .44 spcl with 5 1/2" barrel.]

The Ruger's are noticeably heavier, with equal barrel lengths. (The new .44 is available with either a 4 5/8" or 5 1/2" bbl)

[edited for clarity]

.

[thornblom]

The Rugers are heavier or the Colts? Back when these Colts were in production, they were available in 4 5/8", 5 1/2" and 7 1/2".

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

[Pete44ru]

[The Rugers are heavier or the Colts?]

Dave - No disrespect meant, but when you asked how the Rugers compared to your Colt, I replied that they (the Rugers, i.e.) were noticeably heavier.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

.

[thornblom]

Hey Pete44,

I was just making sure. My fault, my bad.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

[rjohns94]

Hobie, nice discussion on the Rugers. That would have to be close to an ultimate Ruger!!

[Hobie]

Mike,

Close to ideal. I wish they were .45 Colt...

[CEMENTHEAD]

........Mine is on order still with Lipsey's. Hasn't shown up yet, was supposed to ship by April 30th.

I have handled them both (4 5/8" and 5 1/2") and they seem perfect in every way to me. Thanks, Tom

[Pisgah]

Mike,

Close to ideal. I wish they were .45 Colt...

There is a rumor -- and take that for what it's worth -- that Lipsey has requested a .45 version, and further that a lightweight version (aluminum gripframe) is being discussed. Some folks don't like the aluminum frame, but the only gripe I've ever had with them is that the finish has never seemed very durable.

Whether these will ever see the light of day, and whether any of them will ever become regularly catalogued items, is anybody's guess.

[klhill]

I would love a 45 version especially with an aluminum grip frame.My 44 FT is nicely finished and a great shooter but noticably heavier than my OM conversions with aluminum grip frames.For me the feel & balance is better with the lighter frame.

[klhill]

Not sure if your question was answered or not; the new FT 44 frame is the same size as the OM 357.

[BenT]

Thanks for all the answers. Stopped by a couple of shops today. They all have had some come through their doors. The one shop had 2 more on order with both barrel lengths. They weren't spoken for. He put me down for the 5 1/2 in barrel one and will call when it comes in. If I don't like it he will put in the sale case as planned. His price was $450 , which I thought was very fair.

[1886]

I can not comment on these new Rugers but I had an older Flat Top .357 that was converted to .44 Spec. by Jack Huntington. Ballistically, the gun would easily propel a 265gr KT plain base bullet from Mt. Baldy 975fps from a 4 5/8" barrel. I believe the frame size of these two revolvers is very similar. I used that load to take two meat does. Both were shot inside 50yrds. The damage that load did had to be seen to be believed. Regards, 1886.

[jengel]

I have two of the Lipsey's .44 Flattops.

Thanks for the plug in your article. I also sold one to another good customer in Atwood. He wants a holster identical to yours. I called El Paso and they havn't returned my call yet. I think that this is an ideal revolver in an ideal holster. I don't like .44 mags but I would like to own a .44 Special. I happen to have another .44 Flatop left, want a third? See ya.

[Hobie]

Your welcome. I can't take a third now... unfortunately. You guys who might want one, you should check with Jim. He's good fella with whom to do business.

[O.S.O.K.]

These 44 Specials make a lot of sense for a good woods carry gun/hunting rig.

They can easily handle 25,000 psi 44 Special loads that give a 250 grain keith bullet 1150-1200 fps. More than plenty for anything you'd be hunting.

For deer, black bear, etc - the same bullet at 950-1000 fps will go through and through from just about any angle save for a Texas heart shot, so really it's all most of us want or need and is much more pleasant to shoot.

I've been looking at these too.... I need to get a move on if I'm going to get one...

ETA - nice write-up Hobie! As usual.

[BenT]

Alright I actually stopped by a shop today to pick up LP primers . It seems that the only one shipping is Remington. Anyways they also had 2 Lipsey rugers come in for someone today . So I got fondle but not cock or rotate anything.

I compared it to a regular 44mag 5 1/2 and I have to say that there really wasn't alot of size difference in the frame. It actually seemed heavier because of the steel grip frame verses the aluminum one on the 44 mag. So what am I missing ? I really don't see that much of a difference when it comes to carrying it on your hip? I have only used sixguns for about 8 years, so is it just the novelty of it.? I think it's cool but I guess I just wasn't WOWED by it.

[Hobie]

If you have to ask you won't "get it". The frame size is smaller as is the cylinder. This gives a different feel. Of course, the steel grip frame rather than aluminum does make it a few ounces heavier. I've compared mine with a 4-5/8 .44 Mag in the shop. I prefer the size, balance despite the weight difference. If you don't like these wait, there may be a "lightweight", i.e. aluminum grip frame version next year. Marketing don't you know. Hoping for a .45 Colt version as well.

If it doesn't wow you, ok. Everyone has different tastes. That's what makes the world go 'round. I like mine. I like my USFA .45 Colt. I like my .45 Colt New Vaquero. I like my OM .41 Mag but, BUT, everyone of these feels a bit different.

[DPris]

Hobie,
Discussed that 2400 load with Taffin briefly. Suggest running around 16.5 grains, the current 2400 is a little hotter than the older stuff.
Denis

[Old Savage]

Current 2400 is significantly hotter I believe but, it could be distorted by a "fast" Marlin 1895SS if that is possible.

[BenT]

Hobie, it is a nice piece . I think the gun writers amped it up on their writings and the differences were just more suble than I expected. But your right it was hard to compare it with a 44 mag blackhawk because of the added weight of the steel grip. The balance was totally difference. I know I'm just comparing 44 revolvers while other people have been waiting a long time for Ruger to make this. I did get out my Ruger catalog and started looking at wieght differences between the different models. I haven't decided yet and will wait for the gunshop ,who has put name on one, to call and compare again.

[Hobie]

Hobie,
Discussed that 2400 load with Taffin briefly. Suggest running around 16.5 grains, the current 2400 is a little hotter than the older stuff.
Denis

That makes sense. I backed off on the .44 Mag load for the same reason.

[Hobie]

Hobie, it is a nice piece . I think the gun writers amped it up on their writings and the differences were just more suble than I expected. But your right it was hard to compare it with a 44 mag blackhawk because of the added weight of the steel grip. The balance was totally difference. I know I'm just comparing 44 revolvers while other people have been waiting a long time for Ruger to make this. I did get out my Ruger catalog and started looking at wieght differences between the different models. I haven't decided yet and will wait for the gunshop ,who has put name on one, to call and compare again.

I think that the mystique will sell a few of the guns. Some get whatever is new. As I was telling Denis earlier, I don't load my .44 Mags to do more anymore. I have one .44 Mag I haven't even shot! While the .44 Special, .45 Colt (in the NV and Colt SA/USFA SA) and the .41 Mag (220 at 900 or so) do all that I want done the question is, do I need them all?

[DPris]

Hobie,
That's my dilemma- does nothing better than what I've already got, but it's such a nice little gun!

Ben,
Pay no attention to any gunwriter, we all know how they are......


Denis

[Timothy]

44 blachawks come with steel grip frames, so they are heavier than the new 44 flattops. The 45's may be a bit lighter though. I heard someone debunked the myth of 2400 being hotter today and it was unique that was reformulated when they made it cleaner burning. I shoot 22gr 2400 from my model 29 with no signs of pressure whatsoever.

[DPris]

As one who's dabbled just enough with 2400 in the past to decide I don't like the stuff, I have not used the new formulation. That's why I asked John about it, since his reloading bench gets around a lot more than mine does.
He's usually pretty reliable.

Denis

[Hobie]

I'm a fan of Unique. Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore Ammo and Brian Pearce have both mentioned Power Pistol. Universal would be applicable. Lots of choices.

The more I shoot them, the more I like them. Recoil is not objectionable (as one would expect) and they seem to shoot pretty well. I have not shot them on targets, I've just been busting up some cinder block. Lotsa fun that.

[Lefty Dude]

Yes; The new 2400 is hotter than the Hercules of the 1980's.

I developed a load in the middle 80's for my TC rifle, 22 hornet. The load uses 7.7 gr. of 2400, duplicates a 22RF mag load. A very nice shooting, accurate small game load. I am getting ready to meet a friend of mine who lives in Elko,Nv for a few days of ground squirrel shooting there. And have just completed loading 200 rounds with the old powder. I still have about 1/2 pound of 2400 Hercules and decided to compare my load to the Alliant suggested load.Alliant suggest 7.1 gr. is max, of new 2400 for the 45 gr. Speer spitzer bullet I use.

There is a difference in the 2400 now and then.

[SFRanger7GP]

Has anybody seen one of these in Florida? I've been looking because I really need one with a 5 1/2" barrel. I have a Ruger flat top that Jim Stroh converted from .357 to .44 special for me several years ago. It mostly gets a steady diet of 7.5gr Unique with a 250gr Keith bullet. That is my plinking load in all my 44 magnums as well. The .44 special bug is something that will bite you or it won't. It bit me years ago but I have found myself preferring it more in single action than double action. I had several M24's over the years and still have a M24 3" that I am considering selling/trading for something else. The 44 special in a single action seems to be the perfect combination of power, balance and comfort.

[Steve Redgwell]

I'm envious of you fellows in the US that can order one of those. I've wanted a 44 Special for years. In my mind, the 44 Special is just about perfect for anything - hunting, target shooting, CAS, defence, etc.

I am hopeful that Ruger will start making them available for more than special order. Then I can get one up here. Outside of that, we just have to shoot 44 Magnum Blackhawks with light loads.

[O.S.O.K.]

I've got one coming! I'm really excited about it. I ordered the 4 5/8" barreled one.

17 grains of 2400 under a 250 keith bullet is the current hot load - I think this is the reduced load. Brian Pearce just did a piece on these new Rugers and loads for them in the last Handloader. 7.5 Grains of Unique under the 250 Keith bullet is the classic Skeeter Skelton load (950 fps) and the 17 grains of 2400 is the adjusted classic hot Keith load.

My 5 1/2" stainless SBH 44 Mag is all steel and weighs a lot more than these new 44 Special flattops.

ETA - I just cast a few over 100 of the Keith bullets from the RCBS two-cav mold - weigh 260 actually and loaded them over 7.5 Grians of Uniqe - 50 to start to see how they do in the Ruger when it comes.

[salvo]

I have been hearing of a few 44 Specials showing up on dealers shelves. I did not order one and really wished that I did. I went by the gun shop after work just to look around and see what they said about ordering one, they are a Lipsey dealer.
To my surprise there on the shelf was a brand new 5.5" model, I looked a bit closer and the price tag was 439.00 It was less expensive than the New Vaqueros next to it.
I could not control myself and broke out the debit card! Now I need to find my stash of .44 Special brass, I don't have many but it should hold me over until I can afford to spend money again



Great wright up Hobie!

[Hobie]

You'll like it.