Some thoughts on Lee Precision

[Andrew]

I like Lee.

[AmBraCol]

Thanks all for your input ref Lee dippers. I have an RCBS 10-10 Scale that was given to me so weighing charges isn't a problem. It looks like a good piece of equipment.

One last inquiry for you folks using the Lee Hand Press. I have read that it isn't great for loading 44 mag due to requiring significant force to crimp the round. I believe that is the step being referred to. Any truth to this or just someones bad experiences? Had also considered the Lee Loader but Lee indicates that it requires extra force to load 44 mag. Thanks.

You won't require more force to crimp the 44 mag than you would for any comparable cartridge. I don't do the 44 mag but I do load the 45 colt to heavy levels. The Lee hand press can do it - no problems. What you DO have to look for is sufficient bullet/case friction. If the bullet isn't seated tightly then it can pull loose and tie up the gun. With some powders you'll get erratic velocities as well I believe - do to changes in the pressure needed to push the bullet out of the case. Especially with cast bullets make sure you've got a tight bullet/case fit and crimp well. Here's where Lee's Factory Crimp Die shines. You get a solid crimp with a minimum of fuss.

As for the dippers - it depends on what you're doing. For 38 spl I use a 22 LR case soldered to a piece of heavy copper wire. This dips just enough of certain powders for plinking loads. Dip 10 loads into the pan of your scale and record the weight then divide by 10 for an average weight. Then set your scale for that weight and dip and weigh 10 individual charges. Are you able to do so accurately/consistently? For plinking use there's no problem using a dipper. For heavy loads you really should double check what you're doing with the scale. Blowing up a gun is NO fun. I've used Lee dippers over the years and they do fine for what they are designed for - to provide a quick and easy way to make ammo with a minimum of fuss. But they do tend to throw light so don't just go by the chart. Use the chart as a starting place and then weigh your actual charge to KNOW what you're getting.

I'll be traveling around the US this summer and my Lee hand press will be along for cranking out loads when time/space allow. And the Lee dippers will probably come into play as well.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have quite a bit of Lee stuff. Mostly push through sizer dies(10 or more) and a couple sets of dies, many molds,
shell holders, and a hand press. I have found it to be of fair to good quality. Most of my dies are RCBS though.

[JustaJeepGuy]

Interesting note about loading die prices: before Lee started making 7/8-14 dies, RCBS dies at the gun shows were all priced at $30 or so. When Lee dies started showing up at the gun shows, they were priced at $18. At the next gun show, RCBS dies suddenly were priced at $18. Now, did RCBS suddenly find a cheaper way to produce their dies, or were they simply previously charging what the market would bear (some would call it price-gouging)? Either way, Lee made loading dies less expensive, even if you didn't buy Lee. No RCBS for me!

[JohndeFresno]

I hesitated in purchasing Lee equipment because of the oft repeated statements that it is not sturdy, "junk," and so on. I'm not sure that this wasn't started by their competition, since their stuff is REALLY inexpensive as compared with other manufacturers.

Or perhaps there is a history there; but Lee has beefed up its reloading presses vis-a-vis their original equipment line. For most calibers, but maybe not the huge rounds, like the .50 MG, the Lee presses are sturdy enough to handle any job.

The only thing that Lee produces that I have an issue with is his reloading book! You don't know specifically what type of bullets are covered, much of the time (e.g. "50 grain jacketed bullet"). And you don't know what type of firearms were used to run the tests, or barrel length. On the other hand, there is great information on several topics that other resources do not cover nearly as adequately, such as % of case fill for maximum efficiency, and pressure info.

I hear complaints about their molds, and I have not gone into that arena, yet. But I will probably purchase their molds. The price is right, and the aluminum molds apparently heat up much quicker and (very important to me) don't rust. They just take more care with using lampblack prior to use, it seems; and they are more brittle. Well, they aren't intended to be used to frame a house. As for the preparation needed before you cast, I don't see the big complaint, since everything I have read and heard indicates that with an iron mold you have to run the bullets through more than once before they are any good, anyway.

My original setup was an RCBS Rockchucker starter kit, along with several dies and various accessories purchased my first year or two of reloading; Thereafter, I purchased twice as much more of my equipment, mainly Lee stuff, second-hand. I have had no qualms.

RCBS has the best guarantee in the busininess, perhaps outside of Dillon, from what I have heard and read. Dillon is beyond my budget, however. Lee guarantees its stuff for a year, I think; but if it wears out, its low price still makes the overall purchase an inexpensive proposition.

One of my items is an RCBS Piggyback progressive reloader - again, purchased second-hand and very old. No problems - RCBS has sent me replacement parts with e-mail advice - without hesitation. While I was a novice reloader, I left powder in my RCBS Uniflow powder measure for a couple of weeks. I told them it was all my fault, offered to pay for a replacement to the top part, since I could not remove the plastic bin from the assembly. The thing was now etched with powder flakes on the plastic walls, but still usable. They sent me a whole new top assembly, anyway - postage free and totally gratis.

As for Lee, I have also had advice directly from Mr. Lee, Jr. by phone on more than one occasion (can't remember his name right now). For most single-stage (rifle) loading, I use a second-hand Lee Turret Press (the early one). One can still buy those nifty little turrets for a few bucks each - far cheaper than turret setups of other brands. There is no quicker way to switch from one single-stage process to another, as the turrets turn and snap in within a second. The dies only have to be set once and then stored on the turret. The clever little round red plastic box that comes with Lee dies, very inexpensive to replace or purchase by itself, houses the turret. You can turn the box base upside down, drop the turret in (with dies attached) and the dome closes over it to protect the setup from dust and exposure. There is room to store a shellholder (pretty inexpensive) for a complete instant setup.

Now, that's slick!



As for innovation, since this post is rather long, if you visit the LeePrecision.com site, you will see that this company is among the most innovative of any reloading suppliers, and many of their inexpensive solutions to reloading have been copied by the more expensive lines.

The Lee dippers are the only thing that I use for Red Dot. Those nasty little flat flakes slip around - even in my well maintained RCBS Uniflow powder measure - and cause short loads and overloads in an unpredictable pattern. And the Lee hand press, for carrying out in the field, provides far more leverage than the Lyman 310 tool, since it is basically a larger nutcracker type device. Try full-sizing a few large rifle rounds with other hand tools!

OK, I'm not a one-mile shooter. I don't need a sizing die with a micrometer attached. For the thousands of rounds I have cranked out in 12 calibers - pistol and rifle - I am extremely happy with both RCBS and Lee.

[JohndeFresno]

[quote="jd45"]It's been my experience that the Lee dippers throw charges that're a little light, according to the chart that comes with the set.../quote]
Since powder varies from lot to lot, and other factors such as temperature and humidity come into play (at least a little bit), no measure by volume will be spot on. But if you have a starting place by choosing the right measure, and after weighing a load for that particular day, it is easy to move up or down one size for an approximate load.

It sure beats dumping by eyeball and then trickling forever, with those powders that are difficult to meter.

[Modoc ED]

"JohndeFresno" said:

The only thing that Lee produces that I have an issue with is his reloading book! You don't know specifically what type of bullets are covered, much of the time (e.g. "50 grain jacketed bullet"). And you don't know what type of firearms were used to run the tests, or barrel length. On the other hand, there is great information on several topics that other resources do not cover nearly as adequately, such as % of case fill for maximum efficiency, and pressure info.

Yes, you are correct in that in his book, Lee doesn't list specific bullets or firearms used to test various loads. That is because Lee used the load data from each powder manufacture's reloading manuals. Lee's latest book was published in 2003. If you look at say, Hodgdon's, Alliant's, and other reloading manuals of that time, you will see all of their loading data from their manuals included in Lee's book. That is why he list all the powder manufactures in the front of his book and thanks them for letting him use their loading data in his book.

Another complaint heard about Lee's book is that he doesn't list a primer by name at the heading of each reload (i.e., Winchester LRP). If you'll read his book carefully, you'll see on page 83 that he states, "The most important aspect about primes is not the brand, but the precision in which they are installed." and by golly I agree with him at least 90% on that.

The Lee Book I am referencing above is Lee's "Modern Reloading Second Edition".

I find myself going to Lee's book more and more for reloading data on some calibers because practically every powder made is listed in his reload section. He does specify some bullets -- lead from jacketed and some actual brand names.

[Ysabel Kid]

I started with Lee Precision stuff when I was a pup, and still use it almost 30 years later. Thousands upon thousands of rounds loaded. No, it's not the best you can buy, but I truly believe they make the best value for the money. If I was reloading for precision matches I may think differently, but for loading for simple shooting pleasure, they produce an accurate and consistent round without the need to spend a fortune to get there.

[JohndeFresno]

I started with Lee Precision stuff when I was a pup...for loading for simple shooting pleasure, they produce an accurate and consistent round without the need to spend a fortune to get there.

That pretty much says it all.

[765x53]

If you'll let a new guy join in, I started reloading with a Lee Loader and purchased a Challenger 2000 press when they first came out, I don't know when.
It's the only press I own. I've loaded every thing I shoot on it and reformed 30/06 to 7.65x53 which is a lot of reforming. I've never had a breakdown. My dies are a mixture of what was on sale or on the used bargain table but, if buying new I would always buy Lee and I have a FCD for every caliber. I find that the finer the powder the more consistent the Lee dippers are and for starting loads they are as accurate and safe as any mechanical measure.

[JohndeFresno]

If you'll let a new guy join in...I have a FCD for every caliber....the finer the powder the more consistent the Lee dippers are...

Welcome aboard! Good post. Love those Lee Factory Crimp Dies.

[Modoc ED]

Read this link. About ¾ of the way down it describes a way to use the LEE Dipper. This method provides very consistent and accurate throws.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_no ... tes.htm/51

It is an excellent article.

[Brian in FL]

I've used an RCBS press and now I'm using one of the Challengers. For me it works just fine day in and day out. And, the only dies I buy any more are Lees. Their trimmers are, in my opinion, the best alternative to using the standard trimmers. I own an RCBS trimmer, but the Lees are all I use now. The Lee manual is the first source I check when starting to work up a load. And, if I ever take up bullet casting, Lee molds and sizers are what I'll use, those and Ranch Dog's which are made by Lee.

As far as I'm concerned Lee products give the most value for your handloading dollar.

[Cosmoline]

I love Lee's hand press and hand primer. For precise table-top handloading they can't be beat. I can feel the seating of primer and bullet, and control the process at every step. I've always preferred the Lee hand press when doing complex handloading such as the 7.62 Nagant, or when working up small batches of test loads for the rifles.

I also prefer Lee dies. They're simple and foolproof.