What a bargain!- 1886

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:05 am

So, Think it'll sell?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =128292366

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:36 am

surprised it's still there, with that reasonable buy it now. and all

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:56 am

Luvverly.
A little putty around the joints, a coat of underseal , and roto-rooter the chamber. Good to go.
Someone has to be extracting the urine. Surely?

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:04 am

Well the guy has 175 feedback so he isn't green to selling. I hope there is a reserve set much lower than the BIN price. Still, it screams, "puh-leese.".

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:31 am

Hey, it's not me. He's wearing something other than a slipper!

See, if he had slippers on when he took that photo, he'd have more blood flow to the brain. It would have lead to a much more realistic BIN price. Has to be the shoes...

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:44 am

Is that a PLASTIC grip cap on a rifle manufactured in 1896?

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:37 am

That gun qualifies as a first class BEATER. It should have a Buy It Now of $1000.

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:17 am

That price point is a bit of a stretch.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:21 am

Mike, you're uncharacteristically generous on this one

What a piece of...what's the word...history. Yah, that's it.

Oh well, it doesn't hurt to try, and I wish the seller all the best luck.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:51 am

Ysabel Kid wrote:Hey, it's not me. He's wearing something other than a slipper!

See, if he had slippers on when he took that photo, he'd have more blood flow to the brain. It would have lead to a much more realistic BIN price. Has to be the shoes...

That shoe looks like it has spent some time tromping around by the Lagoon (open septic system used a lot in the south)

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:55 am

I wonder how I could do that "Dappled" metal effect.....

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:19 pm

Appears to have been shot blasted with every kind of shot they could find. ....as well as tiny rocks, shrapnel,.....

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:20 pm

I'd go $400 tops.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:35 pm

I really liked the front sight screwed in tight with a sheet metal screw

It's a real thing

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:56 pm

You guys just dont know what your looking at. $10,000 is a bargain for a gun stocked by Ray Charles himself!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:59 pm

Leverdude wrote:You guys just dont know what your looking at. $10,000 is a bargain for a gun stocked by Ray Charles himself!

Ray Charles had fingers.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:03 pm

Well,those two boxes of .22 sold for two hundred............................you never know

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:31 pm

mescalero1 wrote:Well,those two boxes of .22 sold for two hundred............................you never know

Good point. Anything's possible these days.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:15 pm

Ha! You boys better read up on your Winchesters. Thats a VERY RARE gun. (I'm going off the top of my head here) Less than a thousand 40-70's were made in all configurations and thats a deluxe pistol grip. I bet no more than the same amount of fingers on my one hand were made. Sure, the stocks been replaced and the metal is heavily pitted.

Lets pretend you can buy that gun for 3 g's (not likely) Give Doug Turnbull 4 G's to totally restore it. Guarantee you can get 15 for it. It would be worth 25-30 big ones if original.----------Sixgun

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:17 pm

What was it PT Barnum said??? If this sells then I guess old PT was right!

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Wed May 06, 2009 12:38 am

Sixgun wrote:Ha! You boys better read up on your Winchesters. Thats a VERY RARE gun. (I'm going off the top of my head here) Less than a thousand 40-70's were made in all configurations and thats a deluxe pistol grip. I bet no more than the same amount of fingers on my one hand were made. Sure, the stocks been replaced and the metal is heavily pitted.

Lets pretend you can buy that gun for 3 g's (not likely) Give Doug Turnbull 4 G's to totally restore it. Guarantee you can get 15 for it. It would be worth 25-30 big ones if original.----------Sixgun

I don't care what caliber it is, it's still a beater. It has very few original screws, has been terribly abused, with abysmally cleaned metal and Miroku stocks. You would have to be a serious gambler to spend 10Gs just to turn around and cough up another 5 to "restore" it. I don't think so. Will the gun letter, as is? I doubt it, but will call Cody out in the morning.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Wed May 06, 2009 1:18 am

[quote=]I really liked the front sight screwed in tight with a sheet metal screw... quote]

That's a set screw. Winchester made 'em like that.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed May 06, 2009 2:10 am

claybob86 wrote:
wrote:I really liked the front sight screwed in tight with a sheet metal screw... quote]

That's a set screw. Winchester made 'em like that.
There's a '73 in .38 with the set screw at Bullseye here in Wichita. Only two grand, I think!

sureshot · Post by **sureshot** » Wed May 06, 2009 9:21 am

And don't forget the very reasonable shipping cost.........only $100.00

Steve

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Wed May 06, 2009 11:02 am

I'm waiting for Connie at Cody to send me the factory information on this rifle. As soon a I get it it will be reported to y'all. Just curious is all.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Wed May 06, 2009 11:39 am

I think the caliber would warrent about a 100% premium. The PG gets about 25%. The short barrel, if it letters, gets about 25%.

So let's see, zero condition = $0, times 2 = $0, add 25% twice = $0.

There you have it

In all honesty, if it letters correctly it could be made into a Turnbull gun worth some serious money, and a guy might break even if he could get into it for $1,000. I'm curious to see what Connie comes up with.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Thu May 07, 2009 12:59 pm

Here is the ACTUAL information on this gun from the records at Cody.

Winchester 1886
Date in: 10-7-1895
Type: Rifle
Caliber: *45-70*

Barrel: 1/2 0ctagon
Trigger: Plain
Checkered stock, pistol grip
Sights: Winchester Express
1/2 Magazine
Shotgun butt
Date shipped: 10-16-1895
Order: 23425

No other information is available for this serial number

I had to make sure that the caliber was not a typo, but this is the actual ledger information. It is possible that the .40-70 WCF was accidently recorded as .45-70, but it is doubtful.
This throws this "excellent bargain" into further doubt, as it will not letter as-is. If you look carefully, the caliber marking is not parallel with the WCF stamp, but is slightly askew.
Also, there is no mention of a shorter than the standard 26" barrel. IMO, we have a carefully constructed fake, designed to fool the unitiated. I call it "phishing" at it's best.

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:24 pm

Thanks for tracking down that info Mike!

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:38 pm

You would think this kind of thing would be illegal.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Thu May 07, 2009 3:57 pm

Mike D. wrote:...we have a carefully constructed fake...

I might not have used those exact words

Thanks for the info Mike.

Of note, that is still a relatively rare piece as it letters. If a guy had a notion, it could be rebuilt properly and made into a fairly valuable restoration piece. I'd be inclined to give a thousand for it for such a prospect.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Thu May 07, 2009 4:15 pm

I MIGHT consider that, but a lot of metal would have to be removed to clean the serious pitting. I would much rather invest 3 times that in a nice, unmolested .45-70 LTWT. I'm in the middle of a "discussion" on a ELTWT,PG, SGB '86 right now.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu May 07, 2009 4:27 pm

I actually think the pitting gives it a bit of panache.

I think it would be cooler than heck to find a gun that looked like that - with a decent bore & functional innards - for a good price.

I mean, half of the effect I was going for with a BB Stainles gun is to make it look like an "in the white" beater...

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:01 pm

I have an 1873 Winchester rimfire that DOES look like that

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu May 07, 2009 8:18 pm

Good move Mike, Of course, any experienced buyer would request a factory letter and, like I said and will continue to say, it would be a good buy at 3 g's assuming it was "right". Its just junk now as some enterprising dude obviously screwed on a 40-70 barrel that and old time gunsmith had laying around. We all know many strange calibered '86's were converted to 45-70 and easily at that.

Yea, junk is junk and always will be junk--Elmer Keith-----------------Sixgun

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu May 07, 2009 8:30 pm

I still think it's fraud!

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:58 pm

Well, boys, 'ya got a second chance to score this "very special" 1886. It's been relisted and probably will be there until it sickens us all. You know, just like that fool with the "WINCHESTER 1886 TD EXTRA LIGHT 1/2MAG" that's been listed for a coupl'a years now. Not such good shape, but he's bound and determined to get $6500 for what basically amounts to a 3 Grand gun.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:47 pm

After an educational series of emails back and forth with this seller, he has come to terms with exactly what he has. He aked me what I would expect to pay for such a gun and I answered honestly. He has relisted the rifle, again with no information on the history of the gun, and with the same BIN price. I give up, and hopefully it'll sit there without a bid for years to come.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:53 pm

Mike, As an advanced Winchester man, you know that when something does not letter, its junk. If that gun lettered, I'd give him 3 g's for it, then I take the 5K profit and go hang out at the "gentleman's club"----err, buy another levergun

------------Sixgun

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon May 18, 2009 8:08 pm

Mike,
Went around with a guy on gunbroker who had a Noble .410 pump,
he thought it was worth 10% less than a winchester .410 pump, he never did sell it on GB

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Tue May 19, 2009 1:41 pm

Personally, I think he should have done a little work on his shoes before he took the top photo.