Primer price gouging

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:03 pm

Since I was down to about 300 small pistol primers I have been calling around for a couple of weeks trying to locate some. I finally found some up in Benton, TN where most of my family lives. The name of the store is Benton Shooter's Supply. They informed me that they did have Winchester small pistol standard and magnum primers in stock. I aksed how much for 1000. They said $60 + tax. Back in February they were $39. I told them they could keep their primers for that price. They just lost any future business from me as well. I will happily tell all my family members who are shooters about how this establishment does business as well.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:09 pm

The prices on GunBroker are through the roof, too

.
$20/1000 was reasonable, now it's up to $30+ in my local shops, when they're even in stock

!
They have us over a barrel

.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:11 pm

I really don't understand why you are complaining. Why on earth with the posts, articles, etc., about a primer shortage did you let yourself get down to 300 or so primers?

Many of us on this forum have been posting about the scarcity of primers over the last year -- especially the last 7-months. Of course with the primer shortage, prices are going to increase. $60.00 a thousand isn't a bad price today and will be cheap in another month or so.

I'm going to see if I can find a phone number for the store you listed and see if they still have them. If so, I'm going to order a couple thousand from them. Thanks for the lead on where they can be found.

EDIT: Here is a link for that stores info. I just got off the phone with them. Talked to Megan.They do not have small pistol primers at this time but are expecting some soon.

http://www.bentonshooters.com/contact.htm

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:22 pm

Some thieves on GB have them for A HUNDRED DOLLARS PER THOUSAND. Those fools should be shut down and publicly humiliated. Of course, they are probably Democrats and being encouraged in their "entrepeneurship" by their "handlers".

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:25 pm

Feel free to call them. They will limit you to 1000 and will not ship to you. $60/1000 is not reasonable and is gouging when their cost to buy them has not gone up anywhere near that much. I did not load for any cartridge that uses small pistol primers until recently so I did not have any of them hoarded. Granted, it would have been nice if they extra funds had been available for me to buy primers in anticipation of cartridges I might load for in the future. I did manage to find 500 a couple of months ago and have used about 200.

There is a place locally that will sell them to me for $40 when they get another shipment in, so I will not reward the aforementioned business for gouging. This chaps me just as badly as the gas stations charging $5/gallon during Hurrican Ike last Fall. Gouging is gouging.

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:26 pm

They did in fact have Winchester small pistol standard and magnum primers as of 1 hour ago. You have to ask for someone in reloading. The girls at the front desk do not know. I do not appreciate the implication.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:43 pm

There is local shops selling them for $30 a 1000. They are not gouging , but they are other shops selling them for much more. I know what shops that will continue to get my business in the future. It's the retailer marking them up sky high not the wholeseller.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:48 pm

The last primers I bought were $31.95 per K. That was just after the first of the year.

I'm glad I have both a primer and loaded ammo reserve. Otherwise I'd be in deep $h! ... oh wait I can say that word here. I'd be up a creek without a paddle.

But I totally agree with TNBigBore, $60.00 per K is gouging and I wouldn't pay it either.

Joe

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:31 pm

My local supply store (H and H gun range in OKC) charges about $35/1000. I was even able to get 2k of small rifle from them a couple of weeks ago ---- they are limiting purchases to 1k per person per day of any one size.

This store used to be the highest place in town, but, the reloading manager told me that the wholesale prices haven't really gone up, so they have not raised the prices above what they have always charged. He said he knew what was going on with primer prices everywhere else, but he would like to keep selling things to me 5 years from now when things have calmed down (hopefully) than to gouge to make a fast buck in the short run.

As a result, this store has my business indefinitely, and i even bought my latest AR there. I am not blind and will continue to scour the various internet resources too, but its nice to be able to go pick up something locally, then go straight home and get to rockin'

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:38 pm

TNBigBore wrote:They did in fact have Winchester small pistol standard and magnum primers as of 1 hour ago. You have to ask for someone in reloading. The girls at the front desk do not know. I do not appreciate the implication.

If yer talking to me, I wasn't implying anything. They simply told me they were out of stock.

Get a grip. They will ship them if I'm willing to pay the hazmat fee.

I'll call em again and ask for the reloading department. I'll take a thousand wherever I can find them.

Hope you find some before your 300 primers run out.

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:42 pm

Modoc Ed, Sorry, I did not mean to bite your head off. I had my back up over the gouging and was not in the mood to be trifled with. I thought you were trying to say I was full of beans. Please accept my apology if you intended otherwise.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:01 pm

Modoc ED wrote:
TNBigBore wrote:They did in fact have Winchester small pistol standard and magnum primers as of 1 hour ago. You have to ask for someone in reloading. The girls at the front desk do not know. I do not appreciate the implication.
If yer talking to me, I wasn't implying anything. They simply told me they were out of stock.

Get a grip. They will ship them if I'm willing to pay the hazmat fee.

I'll call em again and ask for the reloading department. I'll take a thousand wherever I can find them.

Hope you find some before your 300 primers run out.

Why would you pay $60 per 1000, did you get below 300 already?

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:04 pm

TNBigBore wrote:Modoc Ed, Sorry, I did not mean to bite your head off. I had my back up over the gouging and was not in the mood to be trifled with. I thought you were trying to say I was full of beans. Please accept my apology if you intended otherwise.

Hell, I'm good. I do understand your frustration and anger. It's just that primers are headed in one direction -- UP.

I agree that 1000 primers should be somewhere between $35.00 and $45.00 but as long as people will pay up to $100.00 per thousand then expect to pay anything.

If it were me and I only had 300 primers, I'd bite the bullet and pay $60.00 for a 1000 primers to get by and then sit back to see if some didn't come along at a cheaper price later down the line and then buy 1000 or 2000 more at the cheaper price.

Good luck on your primer search.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:13 pm

Wholesale has driven the boss man to raise prices, depending on mfg, to about $23-33 a thousand. That's a 15% markup. Frankly, anyone else who charges more is gouging but they can get away with it if somebody will buy.

2 years ago now I started saying that you should start laying back primers, powder and rimfire ammo and did so myself. This allowed me to budget for it and get enough ahead I will be able to shoot for a while. I'm not upset if you didn't listen to me, the wife doesn't either!

Seriously, based on the information I've gleaned from several sources and allowing for giveupitis (a person's abandonment of unfulfilled goals) I see shortages easing about January 2010 (barring new legal concerns). It appears that primer and powder makers currently have firm orders for about 9 months worth of production. Note my conditional statements. Lots of things can affect this, not the least of which would be actual impending taxes, transportation cost increases, etc.

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:18 pm

Thankfully, I did buy a nice supply of large rifle and pistol primers over a year ago. Guess I am trying to get in on reloading for the 357/38 at a bad time. I will find some primers eventually. I have a couple of local shops that will call me when they get a shipment in. It just might take a few weeks.

Curiousgb · Post by **Curiousgb** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:45 pm

This is all absurd and really upsets me. The NRA and my fellow gun owners have created this mess (when in worry, when in doubt, run in circles scream and shout). I am at the point were I am just going to have to stop shooting until sanity returns, if it ever does. Does anyone think this mess worries the OBAMA regime? They are tickled to death that we are eating our young.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:54 pm

I have a curmudgeon's outlook on this whole mess. When a seller asks an outlandish high price, that's optomism. When someone buys it, THAT'S gouging. Gouging can only occur with the acquiescense of the buyer, and that's who is at fault for the gouging occuring.

If all you fellers would quit paying the prices, the prices would come down.

Curiousgb · Post by **Curiousgb** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:59 pm

jnyork wrote:I have a curmudgeon's outlook on this whole mess. When a seller asks an outlandish high price, that's optomism. When someone buys it, THAT'S gouging. Gouging can only occur with the acquiescense of the buyer, and that's who is at fault for the gouging occuring.

If all you fellers would quit paying the prices, the prices would come down.

CAN I GET A WITNESS!!!!!

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:11 pm

I started stocking up during the Clinton administration. Figured bad things could happen if someone like him was ever elected. Didn't get complacent during the Bush administration. Figured someone bad could get elected. Now they have.

I'm glad I bought that 6k extra primers to help top supplies off about the time our Obamination was elected, for $15 per thousand. I imagine that when I need primers again, prices will have naturally risen over $200 per thousand.......

22

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:13 pm

jnyork wrote:I have a curmudgeon's outlook on this whole mess. When a seller asks an outlandish high price, that's optimism. When someone buys it, THAT'S gouging. Gouging can only occur with the acquiescence of the buyer, and that's who is at fault for the gouging occurring.

If all you fellers would quit paying the prices, the prices would come down.

That's true. I don't really foresee primer prices falling below $25 a thousand. There would have to be a real glut AND no threat of restrictive laws or taxes.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:20 pm

Even if the supply chain opens up and primers and powder are once again common -- GOOD. BUT my concern is that eventually, Obama's EPA and OSHA are going to declare that primers and powder are too dangerous to ship to individuals and then are going to make up outlandish regulations and restrictions for individuals to buy primers and powder.

Soooooooooo, I say and am of the mind to buy as many primers and as much powder as I can afford and safely store.

Just take a look at the declaration that the EPA just made last week that carbon emissions were the number one danger to the environment and that they are going to oversee/restrict everything that emits carbon gasses --- that includes cows, crops, and dang near everything.

That is not meant to be political. It is just something that I think is coming down the pike.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:47 am

There might be some real examples of gouging, but charging whatever the market will bear for primers isn't it, because primers aren't a necessity. Someone who scalps Barbra Striesand tickets for $1,000 is not a gouger.

It's supply and demand so whoever wants to pay $100 for primers will get them. When those people are at the range, the ones who will pay $90 will get some of what's left, and $80, and so forth.

It's a way of ensuring a supply, because if all primers had to be sold at $10.00 there would be none to be had at any price. If you really WANT primers, thank a gouger.

Just shoot a little less. I joined the nearby indoor range and stop in to shoot 10-15 rounds a couple times a week.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:27 pm

Modoc ED wrote:Even if the supply chain opens up and primers and powder are once again common -- GOOD. BUT my concern is that eventually, Obama's EPA and OSHA are going to declare that primers and powder are too dangerous to ship to individuals and then are going to make up outlandish regulations and restrictions for individuals to buy primers and powder.

Soooooooooo, I say and am of the mind to buy as many primers and as much powder as I can afford and safely store.

Just take a look at the declaration that the EPA just made last week that carbon emissions were the number one danger to the environment and that they are going to oversee/restrict everything that emits carbon gasses --- that includes cows, crops, and dang near everything.

That is not meant to be political. It is just something that I think is coming down the pike.

I agree that we need to be watchful of what the current political parties are doing regarding gun rights. Thats why we have the NRA. However, I do not beleive that the current shortage of primers, powder, ammo, and bullets have anything to do with current policies or laws being put into effect. It is simply related to individuals trying to purchase (in some cases HORD) a product that is short in demand and many RESELLING the product for profits. Personally, I am having to slow down on range time simply because I refuse to pay $80 and $100 for 1K of primers. I have a hard time believing that the manufacturing companys cannot increase production. Of course what would be the incentive? So they could lower prices!!!

Looks like we will just have to deal with the BS for a while longer.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:20 pm

I hate to go all "Libertarian" on you guys, but "gouging" is nothing more than the free market assuring supply. If I can wholesale purchase a generator for $900 and normally sell it for $950, but a hurricane happens, and folks a thousand miles away need them badly, I may sell my three in-stock ones for $950, but when I call wholesalers and they're out, and I have to pay $1200 for them to get them NOW, you bet your *** I'll sell them for $1300 - or the whiners who have $950 but didn't want one last week can go suck eggs. If some entrepreneur can buy 12 of them for $10,000 on a deal, take a week off work, and head south with them, good for him if he can get $1400 apiece.

Yep - I know it isn't fun when you're the one without the generator/primers/whatever, but it's called supply and demand. When they are in plentiful supply and demand is low, buy them if you want them cheap. Otherwise, pay for the privelege of having waited until the 'crisis'.

rhead · Post by **rhead** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:41 pm

Those primers being sold on gun broker are being sold at auction aren't they. Just how is a sale at an auction called gouging?

I own some land that my great grandfather bought for under $1.00 per acre. Is it gouging to sell it for more than $1.25? I have turned down $3000+. An open auction DEFINES a fair price at that time in history. What is was last year or what it may be next year is irrelevant today.

I stocked up several years ago and have enough for my own use. The are not for sale at $100 per thousand because I do not know that I can replace them for that. I have not seen any' of any size, for sale and in stock for several weeks.

At $100 per thousand is it cheaper to buy factory loads? Those are getting a little scarce around here also. I hope your local supply is better. My .22s are all that ever see factory fodder.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:18 pm

http://www.investordictionary.com/defin ... uging.aspx

Thats their definition of PRICE GOUGING! IMO, it would seem to apply. I guess IMO the cost of a product should have some association of what it cost the company to produce it. Not restrict production when the demand gets high enough to generate escalated values.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:35 pm

I don't believe anyone in the business is restricting supply. They simply can't keep up. It has been suggested that they expand production capacity. Aside from the time lag to do that most manufacturers remember the last shortages and the severe downturn in sales afterward as the glut of hoarded supplies (mostly primers) had to be consumed before it was replaced. They will not likely be so cavalier about rapid expansion again. They are well aware that a government imposed slow-down could happen. Some folks have more money than sense and will pay the inflated prices but many, if not most, stores are charging inflated prices.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:04 pm

horsesoldier03 wrote:http://www.investordictionary.com/defin ... uging.aspx

Thats their definition of PRICE GOUGING! IMO, it would seem to apply. I guess IMO the cost of a product should have some association of what it cost the company to produce it. Not restrict production when the demand gets high enough to generate escalated values.

The only time "production is restricted" is when interventionist, socialists, step in and 'bring balance to the free market' by regulating, taxing, price-capping, etc. You are delusional if you think that in a capitalist free market system that prices can be artificially high (or low) for more than an instant. If I decide to sell primers for $100 a thousand, the guy down the street merely has to set his price at $90 per thousand, and he'll get virtually ALL my customers. If he does that, and I don't want to be stuck with unpaid inventory, I'll drop my price to $80 a thosand, etc. Pretty soon, it comes to the point that we're selling them for just barely enough to get by, because there is COMPETITION. If the supply is truly scarce, prices will in fact rise, automatically rationing them (yes, to the ones with the biggest wallets, or the most desparate - how ELSE would you prefer they be rationed - by political affiliation?). The OTHER effect of that is for suppliers to see the higher prices and think about opening a new production line, or paying some overtime, and getting production increased. Pretty soon prices are back down to that free-market equilibrium.

Failure to understand how the free market works is one of the biggest causes for the decline of this nation, as each person or group somehow feels entitled to bring the wrath of government on anyone who doesn't give them enough money for their services or goods, or enough services or goods for their money.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:32 am

I can honestly see where your coming from but continue to disagree. Although I am curious if you held the same opinion a few months back when gas prices had reached over $4 per gal.

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:47 am

There's no such thing as price gouging. If you don't like the price shop elsewhere. If a monopoly doesn't provide you a choice you like, make your own. Only when gov't forces you to buy can gouging exist.

Yes, that goes for gas prices at $4 too. Where the heck do you think the next great energy source is going to be invented? Gov't subsidy is not the mother of invention. You invent the "water engine" because you MUST, not because gov't gives you billions.

Not the inventor type? Fine, ride a bicycle. Move close to work. Work close to home. The point is, you HAVE options, nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy gas. Or primers.

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:52 am

Call it whatever you like, but this type of behaviour is predatory and unscrupulous. Just because you can do something does not mean you should.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:01 pm

to my mind there is a difference between price gouging and the supply and demand of capitalism. I live on the Texas Gulf Coast and from time to time we get hurricanes. In the wake of these storms, there is often catastrophic damage. Folks are prostrate and vultures descend to pray on them. They sell stuff a huge prices, not because of the general increase in prices, but just because they can take advantage of folks who have no choice. Motels double their rates two hundred miles inland because of the numbers of people evacuating the costal areas. Price gouging is huge price increases, that do not reflect market price increase, but come from greed and a predatory spirit. Price gouging under these circumstances in Texas, is a criminal offense, but folks still do it anyway.

The primer situation is not response to a natural disaster or local in scope , but to the forces of the free market nation wide. When supply exceeds demand on a national or international level, that is capitalism. When it is local in nature because of some kind of disaster, and people are prostrate and must have the goods, that is price gouging. Price gouging is artifical and local. Capaitalism is broad and in response to the general economics of whatever industry or product that is the issue.

I suppose I could be splitting hairs, and I am certain many won't see it this way. That is OK, but this works for me.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:14 pm

I just ordered 10,000 for a very Non-Gouge price, but I was told it might be a couple (or more) monthes, with orders being shipped in the order they come in...... Now, I suppose the price could go up before they get shipped but I think Graff would prefer to go out of business rather than screw a customer. These guys have my business forever.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:03 pm

TNBigBore wrote:Call it whatever you like, but this type of behaviour is predatory and unscrupulous. Just because you can do something does not mean you should.

I know, Lets ask Obama to appoint a primer Czar.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:06 pm

Man I didnt see that coming! I NEVER suggested that the GOVT should take over regulating fair distribution of primers or any other facet of the gun or ammuntion industry. Thankfully I still have a dealer here locally that keeps the prices within the MSRP and I can get them for approx. $30 per 1K when he can get them in stock. He will keep my buisness. Observing how passionate you are on suggesting this is capitolism at its best, makes me wonder if your a store owner purchasing at wholesale and marking up the 200 -300% prices I have observed. I didnt mean to start a war here, just commenting on a thread that I agreed with. I will be sure to give you the last word, this is my final post regarding price gouging.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:07 pm

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:
TNBigBore wrote:Call it whatever you like, but this type of behaviour is predatory and unscrupulous. Just because you can do something does not mean you should.

I know, Lets ask Obama to appoint a primer Czar.

Thanks for bringing in the humor!

I hear HILLARY is voulenteering for the job!

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:33 pm

I bought a couple thousand primers at $15.95/K around the time of the last primer scare--when the "short-shelf-life" issue first came up. When was that, a dozen years ago? I thought I was being gouged at that time. Now $30/K ISN'T considered gouging?

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:47 pm

JustaJeepGuy wrote:I bought a couple thousand primers at $15.95/K around the time of the last primer scare--when the "short-shelf-life" issue first came up. When was that, a dozen years ago? I thought I was being gouged at that time. Now $30/K ISN'T considered gouging?

Prior to this "scare" the Benchrest primers were going about $33 a thousand in this area. The others were about $20-25 a thousand or about where they were DURING the last scare.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:58 pm

This has been an interesting thread to read. Shucks, at least you guys can GET primers. Here they are strictly black market - and I've never found anyone who'll tell me who's selling. Probably because I outshoot 'em regularly and they don't want me practicing up and REALLY handing their tails to them.

Be glad you can obtain ANY kind of ammo/components and be patient. This too shall pass. One way or another. I just paid $115 or so for 500 Sellier and Bellot 22 LR Standard Velocity. Now THAT'S gouging. I've no choice, the powers that be set the price and since they have a monopoly it's take it or leave it. And since it's a legit deal and I could get a receipt and what not I took it. It hurt - but at least I've got some ammo. Now if I could just obtain a launching platform. Got my nose to the ground, but haven't tracked down anything I can afford yet. They charge us close to a buck a pop for 38 spl RNL ammo - and ration us to 100 rounds every six months or so.

I wrote a whole paragraph about no more moaning and lets do something - but this is the wrong section for that.

But you KNOW that's the way we've gotta go...

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:10 pm

AmBraCol wrote:This has been an interesting thread to read. Shucks, at least you guys can GET primers. Here they are strictly black market - and I've never found anyone who'll tell me who's selling. Probably because I outshoot 'em regularly and they don't want me practicing up and REALLY handing their tails to them. Be glad you can obtain ANY kind of ammo/components and be patient. This too shall pass. One way or another. I just paid $115 or so for 500 Sellier and Bellot 22 LR Standard Velocity. Now THAT'S gouging. I've no choice, the powers that be set the price and since they have a monopoly it's take it or leave it. And since it's a legit deal and I could get a receipt and what not I took it. It hurt - but at least I've got some ammo. Now if I could just obtain a launching platform. Got my nose to the ground, but haven't tracked down anything I can afford yet. They charge us close to a buck a pop for 38 spl RNL ammo - and ration us to 100 rounds every six months or so.

I wrote a whole paragraph about no more moaning and lets do something - but this is the wrong section for that. But you KNOW that's the way we've gotta go...

Can you legally import .22LR into Columbia and if so how? Can it be mailed to you?

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:04 pm

AmBraCol wrote:This has been an interesting thread to read. Shucks, at least you guys can GET primers. Here they are strictly black market - and I've never found anyone who'll tell me who's selling. Probably because I outshoot 'em regularly and they don't want me practicing up and REALLY handing their tails to them. Be glad you can obtain ANY kind of ammo/components and be patient. This too shall pass. One way or another. I just paid $115 or so for 500 Sellier and Bellot 22 LR Standard Velocity. Now THAT'S gouging. I've no choice, the powers that be set the price and since they have a monopoly it's take it or leave it. And since it's a legit deal and I could get a receipt and what not I took it. It hurt - but at least I've got some ammo. Now if I could just obtain a launching platform. Got my nose to the ground, but haven't tracked down anything I can afford yet. They charge us close to a buck a pop for 38 spl RNL ammo - and ration us to 100 rounds every six months or so.

I wrote a whole paragraph about no more moaning and lets do something - but this is the wrong section for that. But you KNOW that's the way we've gotta go...

Now you have me counting my blessings! Thank GOD for the USA! +1 on what ED said. Let me know if you can received .22LR via mail or whatever else you may need. I reload for the .38 spc. I will try to get you an occasional care package.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:30 pm

No, we can't import anything firearm related. Airguns are an exception and I HOPE I can scrounge up enough to pick up an IZH 46M this summer to bring back. Last time north I stuck a Gamo CFX in and a CVA kit rifle I'd been given. The CVA Kentucky is still a work in progress - it was badly assembled by someone in a hurry. But it gives me something to fiddle with. So this time I'm hoping to bring back an accurate air powered handgun to go with the rifle. Short black powder guns are apparently verboten as well or I'd stick one of those into the luggage somewhere. Years ago I used to run ammo and components into the country (another country) for my own use. Those days are long past. I've come to realize that not all countries recognize the God given right to keep and bear arms. I'm thankful that they allow ME, a foreigner, to own and use firearms and air powered weapons as well. At least I can kind of keep my hand in. Right now I've got just the Llama 38 that the guys on the Sixshooter Community forum got for me years ago. But I'm saving up for a good 22 rifle and a 12 gauge - some day.

In the meantime I have fun with what I've got and if push comes to shove I've got the 38 for social work.

Yes, ammo's limited. I can get about all the 22 or 12 gauge I can afford - IF I can swing the initial cost of buying one or the other. I'm still not sure what's up with the 22 LR ammo they sold me but when they gave me the chance I jumped at it 'cause there's no telling when I'll get another. I pay $150 a year to be a member of the Shooting and Hunting Federation and nearly $25 a month for club membership. This gives me a bit of leeway for bringing airguns into the country and a place to go when I can't stand the city for another minute.

Y'all thank the Good Lord for the blessings you've still got in the US. And let's keep fighting against any further erosion of our rights. It irks me to see how much the country has slid between one visit and the next. Trying to find 22 LR will be a pain this summer and I'll probably be stopping at every chinamart west of the Mississippi as we travel to see what I might find on the shelves. I plan to shoot as much as possible as our schedule and ammo allows. But tales of empty shelves have me wondering what this summer will bring.

big bear · Post by **big bear** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:51 pm

Old guys thoughts....many years ago when I still shot IPSC there was a primer shortage for about 6 months , don't remember what the fear was then. Anyhoot, I still have 3 , 5000 primer cases of Large pistol primers I bought then that I've never used. Spoke with my local small town gunshop and he has a new shipment of primers, Winchester, Federal, CCI, all about $34 Cdn. I think what may be going on is stampede buying and greed compunding each other. Makes me worry about what would happen if a short term crisis were to interrupt food supplies . I don't think there would be much cooperation,just stampeding and greed. Probably should buy equal quatities$$ of beans when you go buy all those primers. The good news, it's spring bear season and the snow is slowly going up the mountains

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:34 am

I tend to agree with Charles that gouging occurs when there is a disaster and people have no choice. However, I didn't bring it up because primers aren't a necessity. Food, water, maybe lodging, if it's dangerously cold. Like I said, someone who scalps Barbra Striesand tickets isn't a gouger (although someone who scalps Barbra Striesand may be both a patriot and a music lover).

For me gas is also a luxury, I can walk or bike to work if I have to. I actually enjoyed the $4.80 gas because traffic went down to nothing. And it was the looney portion of the driving population that stayed home. Nothing like a price increase to keep out the riff-raff.

My understanding about the outrageous prices is that it's individuals on auction sites, not ongoing businesses like Midway and others. My local store is keeping the prices the same, but don't have any left. That's nice, but if I really need more, I'm glad I have the OPTION of buying all I want for $100 per k.

I was checking the Constitution and there's nothing in there saying we have the right to plentiful and cheap reloading supplies.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:30 am

Primers not a neccesity! THATS HEARASY, I guess they kind of arnt as long as you have a good flintlock.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:21 pm

Gouging it is not. Being in business I'm gonna charge as much as I can for my services regardless of my cost. If I can charge $100/hour instead of $60, why not?

In a time of emergency is a different matter. I remember a few years ago when California contractors were charging huge mark-ups and labor rates to customers after one of the earthquakes. Selling things like circuit breakers for $30/each when there normal price was $10. They got in a bunch of trouble. All but one that is. It seems his normal price was $30 and he could prove it so he was in good shape in the eyes of the law. Thats the American way!

LK

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:27 pm

Capitalism really sucks sometimes, but it's the difference between the US (well, maybe not for long) and Cuba or N. Korea.

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:18 am

Here's a couple of links that might interest some of you...

http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.co ... rtage.html

http://grantcunningham.com/blog_files/1 ... 0-512.html

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:56 am

Thanks Hobie. Very good links. They just go to show that you and I have been spot on in the bulk buying that we have been doing over the past two years, especially the .22LR ammunition.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:03 am

The only case lots I buy with regularity are shells for duck huntin'. I did buy 1000 Winchester white box .38 Super+Ps a couple of years ago. Couldn't pass it up at $160. They are prob'ly more by now, though.