You have to be willing to experiment a bit.

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:46 pm

I was having a little trouble and it looked like I was running out of lube in my black powder loads when the temps are near 100degrees......

So, I decided to not wipe the bottom of my bullets. This is generally not a great idea, but I dip lube these and set them on wax paper to set up. There is a small amount of lube that settles under the bullet and I generally wipe them off carefully.

Instead, to take advantage of the extra lube, like a super thin lube cookie, I dropped a wax paper disk over the veggie wad and seated the bullet without wiping.

Groups in VERY hot weather today showed groups in the 1 inch range consistantly, even when the rifle heated up. Saves some steps and adds to my utility too.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:49 pm

Those are shot in Bignose Kate, right?

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:25 pm

Here is the payoff. Three three round groups at 100yds off an aluminum bipod.

The barrel was thouroughly cleaned between groups.

The lower group was shot when the clouds covered the sun. Not much difference, but it can make a huge difference because as I have stated before, the target is not exactly where you see it, the air will trick you with the way it bends the light.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:57 am

Scott,
When I shot ML matches I used to put a shade over my front sight that I had made from a piece of 1" copper pipe.
I had a section of pipe that was about 1 1/2" long that I took and split length ways. Then I spread it apart at the split until the edges would fit in the small groove that was formed by the front sight base and the barrel flats. My sight base wasn't flush with the flat and cut off on an angle like some rifles are so this worked for me. I got the idea from a "chunk gun" that I saw at a museum in TN. a few years prior.
If you are shooting for a long time from the same place such as at a match, your groups will "chase" the sun as it moves across the sky.

Rusty <><

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:09 am

That's a great observation Rusty. Most folks don't shoot enough to observe such things. But if a man does shoot and pay attention, he will learn about this and be able to somewhat compensate for it.

If you would have told me three years ago that I could shoot groups like this with iron sights and a black powder cartride, I would have told you that you were crazy. No way I could do that! I also would not have believed that I could shoot groups like this from a field position.

Well, I shot these groups in three sittings... I sat on the ground and used a pair of alumninum shooting sticks that break down into smaller pieces.

I have a ways to go, but I think I can approach the market hunters' skill level if I stick with it. If I can do it, anybody can.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:07 am

That's excellent shooting.

I assume you used a blow tube between shots?

And I know this is subjective that's why I ask, what do you mean when you say the bbl. was cleaned between groups?

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:51 am

No blow tube.

I got up and cleaned the barrel after each group of three shots.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:14 pm

Scott,
Something else that might help you would be a wading staff like a fly fisherman uses. The one I got for my son for his birthday came from Cabelas. It is a Folstaf 3/4" size. They are on sale right now for $99.99. I realize you like to use a set of cross sticks or even a tripod, but if you were in really rough terrain this migh be the way to go. The attractive part of this is that it folds down to 9" when compacted and 51" when assembled. It is very rigid. When folded down it fits in it's own holster and will ride on your belt.
When I first saw it I thought... mono-pod for a camera, or shooting rest. Oh yes, and it will serve to beat a wayward copperhead into submission as well. I talked to several fly fishermen who own a Folstaf. One said he sent his back to the maker when it was 20 years old and had a new cork handle and a new bungee cord installed.

Rusty <><

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:23 pm

I don't think he needs anymore help with groups like that.

I take it you don't normally use wax paper between your bullets and the vegetable wad when you wipe them off.

What type of front sight do you use?

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:56 pm

Rusty,

I have tried a monopod, but I just cannot get steady with one. I have worked out my technique so that a field rest (such as off a tree branch or fence post) shoots to the same point of impact as the folding bipod unit.

When I tried a monopod, the rifle always seemed to have too much horizontal dispersion and it seemed to be unpredictable.

kimcook,

No, I did not previously put a wax paper wad over the base wad. I wiped the bases pretty thouroghly, and I was not getting fliers like when a wad might stick to the bullet. I added the wax paper to prevent the base lube from sticking to the card wad.

The front sight is a Shiloh with interchangeable inserts (I think it is the one on the Quigley rifle) very low mounted and no level. I use it with a thin post and small bead insert. It appears to the shooter like the old post and ball sights that were so popular in the old days.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:16 pm

Separate small groups often seem to indicate some sighting issue. Here is bright sun, gold bead and a couple slips in concentration testing ammo velocities.

azoil · Post by **azoil** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:25 pm

Fred,

What rifle is that?

Were you cheating with a bench rest to shoot those groups?

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:50 pm

Ah Dave, you got me again - off the bench. That is the 1894-1994 Centenniel Wichester 94 Grade I ( the cheaper one). Great rifle.

azoil · Post by **azoil** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:56 pm

OS, That Winny's not only purty but shoots good too.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:40 am

Scott
Ya need to get yerself a more modern rifle that will shoot good groups. Just send me that old Shiloh clunker and I'll dispose of it for you.

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:17 am

I don't think so.

But thanks for the offer.