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Hey guys check this out. My buddy Tom just got this in from an old estate where he bought some guns. Its a real-deal old engraving/photo with original frame of Robert E. Lee. that was used as a fundraiser to erect a monument for the General. Its signed in ink by a "Pendleton" (I guess the camp that was named after him) and some other important guy of the era. It is dated but my excellent memory fails me on the date. (1880's?)
I don't know much about this stuff--maybe Hobie can elaborate with his vast knowledge of the South. Personally, I think Tom's giving it away. He just pulled the number $400 out of his head. --If anyone is interested, the link is below. (Targetmaster)---------Sixgun ,
Sorry Sixgun, Camp Pendelton was named after a living general during WW2 who advocated for a camp on the West Coast. I'm not sure, but I doubt if any U. S. military bases were ever named after Confederate officers.
There will probably be someone who will have the answer to that one here soon.
Relative of Sandy Pendleton, member of Stonewall Jacksons staff??? I think Sandy Pendleton was KIA but this might be a brother or relative? I know Sandy Pendleton was a favorite of Robert E. Lee.
The earliest official policy on the naming of posts and forts is found in War Department General Order Number 11, dated 8 February 1832. The order stated, “All new posts which may be hereafter established, will receive their names from the War Department, and be announced in General Orders from the Headquarters of the Army.”
At that time, both cantonment and camp designated a temporary location, while the term fort designated a permanent installation. The term post was used for any type of installation. The designation of an installation as a fort or camp was left to the discretion of division commanders (at that time the term division was used to denote a regional command such as the Division of the Pacific, the Division of the Missouri, or the Division of the Atlantic). War Department General Order Number 79, dated 8 November 1878, stated, “As the practice of designating military posts varies in the several Military Divisions, and in order to secure uniformity in this respect, Division commanders are authorized, at their discretion, to name and style all posts permanently occupied by troops, or the occupation of which is likely to be permanent, ‘Forts,’ and to style all points occupied temporarily ‘Camps’.” Additionally, the Secretary of War often delegated the authority for the actual naming of forts and camps to division and installation commanders.
The 1893 “Report of the Quartermaster-General” by Brigadier General Richard Napoleon Batchelder, Quartermaster General of the Army, suggested that the Secretary of War take responsibility for both the naming of posts and for the designation of posts as forts or camps. He deplored the use of terms such as barracks and felt that military installations should be named only after military heroes, not geographical features, Indian tribes, cities, or non-military individuals.
War Department documents indicate that the Secretary of War had assumed complete responsibility for the naming of posts by World War I. During the inter-war years, it was common for the Secretary of War to solicit recommendations for names for new posts from installation commanders; corps and branch commanders; as well as the Chief, Historical Section, Army War College. Unsolicited suggestions for names were also submitted from sources outside the military establishment, and political pressure and public opinion often influenced the naming decision. As a result, it was common for camps and forts to be named after local features or veterans with a regional connection. In the southern states they were frequently named after celebrated Confederate soldiers.
Although naming forts and camps after distinguished military veterans from both the U.S. and Confederate Armies had become a common practice, it was not the official policy until the publication of a War Department memorandum dated 20 November 1939. This memorandum stated that “The War Department has enunciated a policy of naming military reservations in honor of deceased distinguished officers regardless of the arm or service in which they have served.” In the years 1939-1946, almost all military installations designated as forts or camps were named after distinguished military individuals, including veterans of the Confederate Army. Brigadier General Batchelder’s 1893 vision of naming posts after military heroes had become a reality.
Following World War II, a study was conducted by order of General of the Army Dwight D. Eisenhower regarding the procedures governing the memorialization of individuals with distinguished military records. The result of this study was the establishment of the Department of the Army Memorialization Board in 1946. The board was governed by Army Regulation (AR) 15-190, Boards, Commissions, and Committees: Department of the Army Memorialization Board and was given responsibility of deciding on the names of military posts and other memorial programs. AR 15-190 specified memorialization criteria, including the criterion that only deceased persons will be memorialized. It also provided five categories of individuals to be memorialized: a national hero of absolute preeminence by virtue of high position, an individual who held a position of high and extensive responsibility (Army and above) and whose death was a result of battle wounds, an individual who held a position of high and extensive responsibility and whose death was not a result of battle wounds, an individual who performed an act of heroism or who held a position of high responsibility and whose death was a result of battle wounds, and an individual who performed an act of heroism or who held a position of high responsibility and whose death was not a result of battle wounds.
Additionally, the regulation assigned the responsibility of naming Army Reserve armories to major reserve commanders without reference to the Department of the Army; the naming of a facility, building, group of buildings, street, or driveway to the installation commander; and the naming of temporary installations to commanders of major commands.
AR 15-190 was superseded on 8 December 1958 by AR 1-30, Administration: Department of the Army Memorialization Program. The biggest change in this regulation is that it removes the responsibility for naming installations from the Memorialization Board and assigns it to Headquarters, Department of the Army.
AR 1-30 was superseded on 1 February 1972 by AR 1-33, Administration: Memorial Programs. This revision retained essentially the same memorialization criteria and the same categories for memorialization, but added a list of appropriate memorialization projects for each category. For example, it would be appropriate to name a large military installation after a person in category two, while it would be appropriate to name a building or a street after a person in category five. The final decision on naming a post was still made by the Headquarters, Department of the Army. In the 15 January 1981 revision of AR 1-33, the person responsible for the naming of installations was listed as the Army Chief of Staff.
The current version of AR 1-33 became effective on 30 June 2006. It redefines and expands the categories of individuals to be memorialized, and lists appropriate memorialization programs for each category. The criteria for memorialization are expanded and clearly defined, and the number of individuals with approval authority for memorializations is increased. The naming of installations is now the responsibility of the Assistant Secretary of Army (Manpower and Reserve Affairs). The Director of the Installation Management Agency is responsible for the naming of streets, buildings, and facilities on all military installations except medical installations, where the Commander of the U.S. Army Medical Command has the approval authority, and on the United States Military Academy, where the Superintendent of the United States Military Academy has the approval authority.
By James Tobias
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One of our largest: In 1918, Congress established Camp Bragg, an Army field artillery site named for the Confederate General Braxton Bragg. It is now Fort Bragg
Last edited by Rick-F on Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ysabel Kid wrote:Can you imagine how well off the country would be right now if men of the caliber of Robert E. Lee were common and in power?
IMO, they are currently serving......
Blaine, you are right as rain, as usual!
I just wished they'd serve afterwards in elected positions. Some do, but we could sure use a lot more...
I'm ashamed to say, I can't think of any honest politicians these days....Or, if they are honest, they wouldn't want to play the game the way it has to be played today BTW, I'm a broken clock, just right twice a day
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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BlaineG wrote:...I can't think of any honest politicians these days....Or, if they are honest, they wouldn't want to play the game the way it has to be played today...
I believe you've stumbled on a key there. Things can't get better when we believe things have to stay the way they are. Didn't Ayn Rand have an opinion on that subject?
Not to drag this off topic (you know I never do that! ), but I think that prevents a lot of people from entering politics that would be on "our side". The idea of having to "play the game" simply doesn't appeal to most men and women of honor. Nor should it, but most wouldn't make it through the meat-grinder while sticking to their guns. Still, I am hoping that a lot of vets returning now will become the leaders of tomorrow - and will indeed stick to our Founding Fathers' vision.
Gun Smith wrote:Sorry Sixgun, Camp Pendelton was named after a living general during WW2 who advocated for a camp on the West Coast. I'm not sure, but I doubt if any U. S. military bases were ever named after Confederate officers.
There will probably be someone who will have the answer to that one here soon.
Fort Pickett, Fort A. P. Hill to name two.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
General William N. Pendleton was, at the end, Chief of Artillery. He wrote a book on his experiences which all sons of the south should read. He is locally revered (in Lexington, VA) by those who "remember".
Here in VA we have Fort Lee, Fort A. P. Hill and Fort Pickett (HQ of the VaNG) and Camp Pendleton (at VA Beach, VA). The USS Robert E. Lee (SSBN-601) was a submarine named for Lee, built in 1958.
IIRC, the print/engraving was one of several efforts to raise money for the Richmond monument still on Monument Avenue along with other Confederate Generals and.... Arthur Ashe! Condition is all important as is the condition of the buyer's wallet. $400 isn't out of line depending on condition. I've only seen two others.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
I knew we would get a good answer here. Some of us here know a little about a lot, and some of us here know a lot about a little, but very few of us know a lot about a lot!
One day this week as I was driving to work I heard Chuck Swindell the radio preacher on the radio. In the message he was preaching he talked about the funeral of Robert E. Lee. Pendelton was either Bobby Lee's pastor or he gave the eulogy at the funeral, I'm not sure which since I tuned in somewhere in the middle of the message. If you go to http://www.insight.org you might be able to download the message. Swindell paints a wonderful picture of the funeral and how that because of heavy rains in the area there was flooding that kept most of his command officers away from the services as they were coming from great distances away. It was only the enlisted men who served under him who had come down from the mountains that were able to make it to the services. To conclude the services all the men gathered and as their final show of respect to their leader they joined to see his favorite hymn, "How Firm A Foundation."
I just went and checked the insight.org website and all messages can be downloaded for free on itunes.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
For what it is worth, Robert E. Lee freed all of his slaves before the war between the states started. He was by all accounts one of the best men ever to command soldiers. He went through West Point without a demerit.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Ft. Benning was named after a prominent Confederate IIRC, and (scenic!) Ft. Polk after Gen. Leonidas Polk, CSA...
"Pistols do not win wars, but they save the lives of the men who do. The noble 1911 is a mechanical marvel, whose ruggedness, dependability & ferocious power have comforted four issues of GIs and which, unlike any other instrument you can name, is as much superior to its rivals today as it was in 1917."
-Col. Jeff Cooper, 1968
I'm a Northern Yankee. But...............the older I get and the more I know, I am now confirmed in the fact that the Civil War was the War of Northern Aggression. Thanks for the many knowledgable responses ---------------Sixgun
piller wrote:For what it is worth, Robert E. Lee freed all of his slaves before the war between the states started. He was by all accounts one of the best men ever to command soldiers. He went through West Point without a demerit.
Piller,
In fact, Gen Lee had quite a bit of problems with slaves. He inherited many and was under obligation to manumit (free them) within five years. He wasn't able to complete that until 1862 as he had to work them, on the farm or by hiring them out, to pay the estate's many bills. He was, in fact, burdened by the slave ownership of his ancestors and the legal and economic necessities of his time.
Even here, Lee is almost as revered for what he did (and didn't do) AFTER the war as what he did during the war.
PS - Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson had slaves as well. However, he was a proponent of what were considered liberal views. I.e. education and religious support. He helped fund Negro churches and there is one named for him here in Staunton.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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BTW, I'm a broken clock, just right twice a day 
