Home made jacketed bullets?

[cjm135]

Anyone here make there own jacketed bullet? From what I've read the equipment is a bit pricey but seems simple enough to do. What is your experience?

[adirondakjack]

My first exposure to handloading was at my dad's elbow in the 1960s. He CAST his own jacketed revolver bullets in .357 and .44. His process was unique enough that he got it patented (but sadly never brought it to market). He used copper half jackets and zinc base washers to cast pure lead bullets that really worked well in terms of expansion and retained weight.

As he would say decades later, commercially available jacketed bullets have come eons since those days, both in terms pf price and performance (if ya think they are high now, they were REALLY high then, when he was working for $2/hr.) Most of what ya see are swaged, and yes, gearing up costs a bit, as does lead wire (unless ya cast cores to use to make em). I'd entertain the idea for some really oddball creature,but for run of the mill stuff, I like XTPs.

[mescalero1]

Yes, is it expensive to get started, but it is worth it if you are going to do it the rest of your life.

[O.S.O.K.]

You are referring to Cor-bon equipment I believe.

This actually got started during WWII. A way to use fired .22 cases as jackets for .22 caliber bullets was devised by the varmint hunters IIRC.

You can still do that and they make good bullets. I recently read an article about the process - Handloader magazine I think.

[Old Ironsights]

There is a thread going on over on the Swaging Sub at Castboolits discussing making .380 cases into .357 swaged jacketed bullets...

[TedH]

I've thought about setting up to plate cast bullets with copper. Not a great deal of money to get started, though it looks like it would be a fairly slow process if a guy was interested in high volume. I've got too many other irons in the fire to pursue it right now.

[Grizz]

why?

[win92]

I shoot benchrest rifle 6mm ppc and 22 ppc . About 10 years back I made my own dies to produce bullets in both calibers.
Back then I could purchase J4 jackets with no problems but now it is a bit of a pain to get a hold of them.
Gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling to have the makins for 20 or 30 thousand bullets in the basement. I also cast my own for 30 ,44, and 45 cals so I keep about a ton of lead on hand as well. Got to get some more before the horders latch on.
No problem to make 1000 bullets in about 8 hrs. Not a road to riches but they are always on hand.
Win92

[Cliff]

why go with jacketed bullets. Back before WWII there was some experimenting with wire wrapped bullets. If you can get a 1953 edition of Phil Sharps book "The complete guide to handloading" he has quite a write up on how it was done. There was talk of making the bullets commercially, but after WWII ended no one continued on it. Basically they used copper bell wire which was wrapped onto a cast bullet or a mandrel. If on the mandrel it would be removed, dropped into the mould and then lead poured in. The wire acted as a jacket and from his writings it seemed to provide the desired results on targets and game. ATB

[cjm135]

Grizz,

I did a little research and I'm looking at options for making my own bullets. I'm aware of casting but before going further I checked into what is needed and the process of making jacketed bullets. I appreciate the information that has been offered and will must likely start casting in the near future. I’m just exploring the options.

[Hobie]

Dave Deering aka Stone Fence. Darn good bullets...

[Thunder50]

44 bullets are easily made from 40 S&W cases. I have been making 375 bullets from 9mm cases the last week or so.

[Rusty]

I guess I'm just biased but IMHO a better idea would be to get a copy of Veral Smith's book "Jacket Bullet Performance From Cast Bullets."

As expensive as those Cor-Bon presses are I thing you'd get off for less by casting.

[Stone Fence]

As to the question of why-- I prefer a jacketed bullet for 2 reasons. 1) many vintage rifles have oversize, slightly pitted bores, and sometimes (not all the time) a custom, jacketed bullet is the only thing that shoots well.

Second, using a jacketed bullet in a caliber like .38-55 you can have a dead soft lead core, for good expansion. I know some claim to have got good results with cast wheel weight bullets, but I have also heard horror stories of deer shot with bullets hard enough not to lead, and the bullet penciled thru with little expansion and a poor blood trail.

It is pricey to tool up to swage good bullets (over $1000 for current press and a 3-die set), and jackets are outta sight right now. It's not right for everyone, but for certain applications it is hard to beat. Plus- if you take your time you can acheive much tighter tolerances and uniformity than with cast-- even if you weigh your cast bullets to make them all the same weight, you still have voids with cast that throws center of gravity off, and you don't experience this with swaging!

-Stone

[SteveR]

Paco has an article about it in one of his books on making jacketed bullets using copper tubing, I don't remember which one it was in.


Steve

[rhead]

Paper patches are also an option depending on volume. More than a couple hundre a night and I start missing some of th plot5 in the show on TV.

[afish4570]

My first exposure to handloading was at my dad's elbow in the 1960s. He CAST his own jacketed revolver bullets in .357 and .44. His process was unique enough that he got it patented (but sadly never brought it to market). He used copper half jackets and zinc base washers to cast pure lead bullets that really worked well in terms of expansion and retained weight.

As he would say decades later, commercially available jacketed bullets have come eons since those days, both in terms pf price and performance (if ya think they are high now, they were REALLY high then, when he was working for $2/hr.) Most of what ya see are swaged, and yes, gearing up costs a bit, as does lead wire (unless ya cast cores to use to make em). I'd entertain the idea for some really oddball creature,but for run of the mill stuff, I like XTPs.

40 yrs. ago I remember going into John Deweys Gun Shop in Clinton Corners, NY had a bunch of bags of zinc washers used in a Bullet Design by Harvey xxxx I think from somewhere in Connecticut....Design and swagging the washer on a special cast bullet proved to be too much fussing for all but the most dedicated.afish4570

[Old Ironsights]

why go with jacketed bullets. Back before WWII there was some experimenting with wire wrapped bullets. If you can get a 1953 edition of Phil Sharps book "The complete guide to handloading" he has quite a write up on how it was done. There was talk of making the bullets commercially, but after WWII ended no one continued on it. Basically they used copper bell wire which was wrapped onto a cast bullet or a mandrel. If on the mandrel it would be removed, dropped into the mould and then lead poured in. The wire acted as a jacket and from his writings it seemed to provide the desired results on targets and game. ATB

Now THAT is an interesting idea... It would also essentially give you tumble-lube grooves too...

[Steve Redgwell]

I make a number of different diameters - .224, 6mm, .308, .311 to .314 The ones that are the most interesting to do are the ones made from spent rimfire cases. I do it for me. It's relaxing and gives me a real sense of accomplishment. I shoot groups or take game made from bullets I made.

Wire can be had from http://www.corbins.com . He sells it in 10 lb spools. 7000 x 10=70,000. The number of cores you'll get depends on which bullet weight you make. For example, 50 grain bullets need 40 grain cores. You'd get approx. 1750 cores from 10 lb of lead.


Die set to make bullets from 22RF cases

Special equipment is required but if you start with a simple bullet like the ones made from RF cases, the costs are pretty reasonable. You need a jacket forming die to unfold the rims from the cases. You can also buy premade jackets, but 22RF cases can be had for free. It's just more labour intensive. bullets made from RF jackets are restricted to about 3200 fps. They are fine for the 221 Fireball, the Hornets, 222 or 223 Rems.

In a nutshell -
1. You wash the cases and lube them.
2. Unfold the rims
3. Wash the lube off again because you have to remove anything from the inside where the lead goes.
4. Re-lube when the time comes to make bullets.

I will add bullet pix tonight.

...

Please note that I DO NOT sell these at the present time. This is not an ad, so don't ask. Better, more precise pix to follow.

To add the lead -
1. You insert cut lead cores into the jacket, like the two jackets with cores at the bottom of the pic.
2. You squeeze the lead into the jacket and it expands out to almost the correct diameter.
3. You make a point on the end which brings it to the proper diameter.

For making 22 bullets, this can be done with an RCBS press or a heftier press expressly made for bullet making. RCBS stands for Rock Chucker Bullet Swager.

A 3 or 4 die set is required. They are more expensive than reloading dies. The set consists of a core forming die (to shape the lead into a cylinder), a core seating die (to seat the lead inside the jacket), a PF or point forming die (to make the point) and an optional TF or tip forming die to shape any lead that comes out the end into a nice pointed tip.

For more info, go here - http://www.corbins.com - Dave Corbin

The other place that you can visit is http://www.rceco.com . This is owned by Dave's brother Richard Corbin. Richard is the tool and die, machinist.

[Hobie]

Thanks for posting Steve. I'd forgotten that you were also a swager...

[Steve Redgwell]

You're welcome. Unfortunately, I'm not at home right now and cannot get at my picture files. I won't be back for a few hours, so they wil have to wait until later.

I'll post pix of bullets made from commercial jackets as well as 22RF jacketed bullets.

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks for posting Steve. I'd forgotten that you were also a swager...

Hobbie, no need to go calling the guy names!!



Yes, thanks for that information there- very interesting - good to hear it from a fellow member here. I know I read about this in one of the mags too = I think Handloader. IIRC there were preferences for brand of spent rf cases and other information.

What kind of tips did you put on those rimfire bullets? Kinda hard to tell in the photo - are they hollow points?

[JohndeFresno]

Great info. If nothing else (I'm not THAT ambitious; I'll probably be happy to add good quality casting to my handloading hobby) - it is very interesting.

Thanks, all.

[Steve Redgwell]

I've formed two kinds of tips - OT (open tip) and PSPs. The OTs are not HPs. There is no cavity in the lead, just an open area at the tip of the jacket. The PSPs require an extra die - a tip former - to make the point. If you do not form a proper tip, the lead that oozes out of the end is misshapen.

OTs open up more than the PSPs but not as much as a true hollow point.

If I was going to start making RF jacketed bullets today, I would only buy the RF jacketmaker at first. I would gather up a pile of spent rimfire cases and make several thousand jackets. When the rim is unfolded, the length of the jacket is approx. 0.700 inches.

The best weights for this jacket seem to be 55 to 65 grains. Light bullets require a jacket trimmer. The 0.700 inch jacket has to be trimmed back to approx. .5 inches before putting the lead cores in.

Anything over 65 grains won't form properly. The bullets are too long and it's difficult to seat the lead cores.

[adirondakjack]

My first exposure to handloading was at my dad's elbow in the 1960s. He CAST his own jacketed revolver bullets in .357 and .44. His process was unique enough that he got it patented (but sadly never brought it to market). He used copper half jackets and zinc base washers to cast pure lead bullets that really worked well in terms of expansion and retained weight.

As he would say decades later, commercially available jacketed bullets have come eons since those days, both in terms pf price and performance (if ya think they are high now, they were REALLY high then, when he was working for $2/hr.) Most of what ya see are swaged, and yes, gearing up costs a bit, as does lead wire (unless ya cast cores to use to make em). I'd entertain the idea for some really oddball creature,but for run of the mill stuff, I like XTPs.

40 yrs. ago I remember going into John Deweys Gun Shop in Clinton Corners, NY had a bunch of bags of zinc washers used in a Bullet Design by Harvey xxxx I think from somewhere in Connecticut....Design and swagging the washer on a special cast bullet proved to be too much fussing for all but the most dedicated.afish4570

In the 60s you could buy the washers and you could then (and still can) buy half jackets. what my dad did was modified Keith style Lyman molds to accept a jacket AND a base washer. he used a single stage press and a homemade die to punch holes in the bottoms of the jackets. A base washer and a half jacket were inserted into a JHP or JSP Keith mold bored out to accept them, then the pure lead was poured into the mold. What ya ended up with was a jacket and washer with a sprue through the middle that held em in place so that even when fired at OH MY GOD velocities (he blew up a .357 python shooting light jacketed bullets on top compressed loads of UNIQUE), the bullets stayed together well, and of course openned violently. When ya consider what was available back then, it was awesome. Compared to XTPs or Gold Dots we havetoday, about the same performance and a whole lot of fiddling. He patented his process in the late 70s after reading a Lyman manual with an article about epoxying soft lead noses on WW or harder shanks and thinking "that's nonsense". Lyman offered to "buy and bury" his patent, but he held it. Then one thing led to another and he never brought to market his "jacketed bullet kit" which was to consist of a mold and a supply of jackets and washers.

[Steve Redgwell]

Here are some pictures. This is a .75 inch group, shot from a Tikka T3, using 60 gr. bullets made from rimfire cases. This was not some worked up, special load. I just took 4198 and loaded a bunch. I get .5 inch groups with 748 and 4198.



This is how I get my brass. It's collected from an indoor range. The brass is sorted according to manufacturer and made into jackets. The nice thing about getting it from there is that none of the cases are dirty and only certain ammunition is used - primarily Lapua and Eley. Other stuff appears, but not in any great number. It's culled.



Here's part of my bench. There are two bullet presses - a Walnut Hill (RCECo) and Series II (Corbin) and an RCBS. The RCBS is what I use to unfold the rims and form jackets from 22LR cases.



These are the finished RF jackets sitting in trays ready for lead cores.



This is what they look like after they're made and polished. I call them Custom Gold because they polish up just like gold.



This last pic shows some of the bullets. From left to right - 52 gr. FB bullet made from J4 jacket, 66 gr. bullet made from J4 jacket, 60 gr. bullet made from rimfire case, 76 gr. 6mm bullet made from J4 jacket.

[MtnGun]

Nice looking bullets, Steve. I have been swaging for awhile. from .22 to .338 and all the pistol calibers. It is a very rewarding hobby.

[Steve Redgwell]

Yes, it is rewarding. It also makes you less dependent on traditional suppliers.

[cjm135]

Thanks Steve, it looks like you have a fine set up and a good system for msking accurate bullets.

[jhrosier]

Steve,
Thanks for the info. It's got me thinking.

What is the approximate total cost for the dies to make jackets from .22 cases and form the finished bullets?

Do you think that it would be practical to cast cores for the .22 bullets rather than rely on the availability of lead wire?

Jack

[Steve Redgwell]

http://rceco.com/img/rfjackets.PDF

This first link explains about making jackets from 22 cases.

You can buy complete kits that provide all the tools for doing this, but they are pricy. About $700. The kits consists of a jacket making die and punches, core seating die and point forming die. It's easier on the wallet to buy a jacket making die for about $159 and add the two other dies later. Unless things have changed, RCECo is cheaper to order from.


Jacket Making Die

If you have an RCBS or other cast press, you can make jackets using it. There is no more press pressure required when making jackets or seating cores than there is for resizing cases.

As to cost, the cases are free. Cores cost .02 to .03 cents each. It's easier and faster to get lead wire and cut it. Finished bullets cost $3 per 100 if you don't count the dies. Or, if you want to count the equipment, at $20/100 for bullets you buy at the gun shop, it would take you 3500 bullets to break even. After that, $3/100.

The bottom line is, if you do not wish to buy a complete kit, do it in three or four bites.

[cas]

Oh, they give me the squirts!!

I know a man who used to make benchrest bullets for himself and a few customers. He would give me buckets of the little extruded pieces of lead that came out the nose of the bullet (he called them squirts). I would melt them down and make muzzle loader bullets.