M1 Carbine Nostalgia and info

[86er]

In the February 2009 American Rifleman there was an article, "Carbine Williams - Myth and Reality". I have some first hand information and experience regarding Mr. Williams and his family. In 1993 I showed up in North Carlolina to work in Fayetteville. Having never stepped foot in N.C. before, my only criteria for finding a place to live was that the place must have quail on or very near it. One of the guys at work told me his friend, Charles Bell, had a place for rent on many acres about 20 miles from Fayetteville. I looked at the place and after seeing a covey in the driveway I shook hands with Mr. Bell and moved in. The property I lived on was owned by the Bell/Williams Family, but at the time I had no idea of the significance. As time went on Mr. Bell offered to take me quail hunting on other property in and around Godwin, the place that was my hometown for 5 years. Mr. Bell told me his wife's uncle, David Williams, had worked for Winchester and perfected a short piston mechanism for semi-auto firearms. Based on this and Mr. Bell's extensive knowledge of such I ended up getting a Winchester Model 50 and 59 shotguns that used the short piston mechanism. I had the privilege of hunting on Gordon Williams farm many times for quail, woodcock, deer and fox. Gordon Williams became my friend even though 6 decades separated us in age. He told me how his brother, David Willaims, became known as "Carbine" Williams. As the story went - related to David Williams participation in commercial firearms production - Gordon told me David uses piston engines to come up with the idea of transferring energy to operate a piston that would in turn link to another mechanism that required movement. On Highway 301 on the side of the road there were two examples of such piston engines that formerly belonged to David Williams. Gordon told me his brother was present in a shootout with Cumberland County Deputy Sheriff's and that a Deputy was killed. The shootout was during a raid on a liquor still. He told me his brother always swore he was not the one who pulled the trigger. There was a hung jury the first time, and David took a plea rather than face another trial. However, he maintained he didn't do it but took responsibility because he admitted it was indeed his still. In 1994 I purchased the house across the road from Joe and Mary Torok. Mary was a Williams before marrying Joe. The chicken coop that I had on my property was the scene of the shootout many years past.
Gordon Williams told me how he helped petition for his brothers early release based on his contribution to the mechanical function of the M1. He explained to me that David got the design to work and applied for a patent while using the jail's machine shop. He said David was very proud to work for Winchester but also never felt he was given adequate credit for his design. As best as I recall, Winchester kept trying to modify it in spite of or in contradiction to what David felt needed to be done. He did not become known as "Carbine" until after the movie. The first people to actually address him as such were the curators for the North Carolina Museum in Raleigh, where they moved pieces of his workshop and home. In the movie, my house was pictured and some of the scenes were taken on the property. I noticed David has a shotgun and bird dog in one scene and Gordon then showed me a huge quail raising operation that he and David once had. They raised over 3000 quail per year and released them on properties in the area, as well as sold some. Gordon liked big dogs and was fond of the Setter/Pointer mix that he always called a "Drop". In 1996 my grandfather visited with Gordon Williams and they hit it off very well. In spite of being a New Yorker in North Carolina, Gordon Williams proudly discussed his brother, the short stroke piston and the M1 with my Grandfather. He also showed my grandfather a few guns he had and how David "improved" the designs. Some of my best memories are from the years I lived in David Williams house and hunted on the Williams property. I shot quite a few quail that may have been decendants of the Williams breeding efforts. There were quite a few days when I visited the little Cemetery in Godwin and stopped by the headstone that read David "Carbine" Williams. My Dad became very interested in this tidbit of history when he came to live with me in the former Williams house I owned back then. He has a collection of a bunch of Carbine Williams memorabilia. Anyway, the article in the American Rifleman seems to be some fact, some fiction and some speculation. Overall, it was accurate in the factual portions. Of course, the stories I heard that were so interesting to me were all second and third hand, but the family has impeccable credibility so there was no reasons not to believe every word of it. I left that house in 1998, selling it to Mr. Bell who refused to let it out of the family. I've drove by from time to time but the house seems vacant. My parent live there and stop by to look at the old homestead and remember the good times we had there. I miss that place, and I wonder what happened to Gordon Williams and his wife and Mr. and Mrs. Bell and their family. Anyway - I thought I'd share this little account of my interaction with the Williams and I hope you enjoyed it.

[FWiedner]

That is simply too cool.

Thanks for sharing that.

[Borregos]

Very interesting story, thanks for posting

[2ndovc]

Neat story Joe!



jb

[gamekeeper]

Thanks for sharing, interesting story indeed!

[O.S.O.K.]

Cool. You should send that into the American Rifleman. They'd probably print it.

My carbine: (Saginaw)

[BenT]

A neat part of history. When I visit retirement homes I love talking to old guys and there interactions with history.

[major]

nice to hear story about being in the right place at the right time to have the pleasure of finding out stories about something that shaped our history.

[Rusty]

I agree Joe, If the NRA didn't at least print it as a letter they'd be negligent. It could be made into an article if you had the time. Might be good advertising as well.

[JerryB]

Thank's for telling us a great story, you must be proud to have been a friend of such folks.

[Hobie]

Thanks for taking the time to share that. VERY interesting.

I like talking to the old folks, always have. However, I was a bit startled yesterday to have a fellow come in and introduce me to his boy as "his old sergeant"... My point is that you're now the custodian of the "lore" and you're doing well to pass it on.

[2ndovc]

Nice looking Saginaw.

Here's my Winnie w/ my Ithaca;



I had about half dozen at one time but sold all but this one when they
started getting pricey.


jb

[Ysabel Kid]

Joe -

That was a real treat to read! The Jimmie Stewart movie was one of my favorites - then again, anything with Jimmie Stewart in it was always a winner. What a neat piece of real history!!!

[O.S.O.K.]

Nice looking Saginaw.

Here's my Winnie w/ my Ithaca;



I had about half dozen at one time but sold all but this one when they
started getting pricey.


jb

Nice one! Winchesters are the classic carbines for sure! I know of another guy that had almost 100 carbines - did the same thing - sold almost all of em off when the values went up. They are very cool historical pieces for sure. I'm happy to own one nice example.