Williams peep on a Winchester 94 issue

[otteray]

Please help resolve this.

I suggested to a friend that he put a receiver peep sight like the Williams 5D or Firesight set on his top ejecting 30-30, since he can't
see as good as he did when he was a young man. Works for me with my Marlins.
Another fella says, with that Winchester 1894 (top eject, not angle eject) he can't get sighted in at less than 200 meters with a receiver peep sight, but can with a tang mounted sight.
Either style works with my Marlins although I may sometimes have to change the front sight height.
So I'm confused as to this fella's problem, what's up?

[Tycer]

My guess is he need a taller front sight. He can get the aperture of the tang sight lower than the receiver sight. Have him use tape folded over the front sight to determine how tall and then measure from the bottom of the dovetail to the top of the front sight to determine the height. If it's not ramped and a shorter barrel .445" might be the ticket.

[Hobie]

Please help resolve this.

I suggested to a friend that he put a receiver peep sight like the Williams 5D or Firesight set on his top ejecting 30-30, since he can't
see as good as he did when he was a young man. Works for me with my Marlins.
Another fella says, with that Winchester 1894 (top eject, not angle eject) he can't get sighted in at less than 200 meters with a receiver peep sight, but can with a tang mounted sight.
Either style works with my Marlins although I may sometimes have to change the front sight height.
So I'm confused as to this fella's problem, what's up?

So, he SAYS that is true. IME, it isn't. However, if perhaps the front sight is damaged/broken off (and I have seen that) then it is possible. Different guns though are DIFFERENT guns. A peculiarity of one can't be assigned to them all. I've helped install Williams FP and 5D sights on some 60 guns, Winchesterster and Marlins and in no case where the front sight was original was another, higher, front sight required IF the gun was properly zeroed.

[Paul E.]

Thanks for starting this thread for me Ray,

Hey all, New guy here, here is my situation,

I went to the range to shoot my 1970 Winchester model 94 last week for the first time in 30 years, and the factory dovetail sights just don't cut it anymore,
In a perfect world for me I would put a scout mount with a dot scope on it, but on this model from what I have read will require drilling and tapping, Or a Side Mount will work, but these two options are something I don't want to do. (side mount is out of the question for me)
Have done some research and a popular alternative without drilling and tapping is a reciever peep or ghost sight, (I have never used a peep sight, but shoot a fixed sight handgun well)
Does this William's set seem like a good alternative for me? My eyes are OK, just need reading glasses for reading finer print .
Thanks, Paul

[Modoc ED]

It's been my experience that if the receiver sight is mounted to the side of the receiver a taller front sight isn't needed but if the receiver sight is mounted on top of the receiver using the pre-drilled scope holes (say on a 94 Angel Eject) that in all likelyhood a taller front sight will be needed.

One way to avoid having to use a new front sight for a top mounted receiver sight is to machine/file/sand some of the material off of the bottom of the receiver sight so that the sight will sit down lower on the receiver. If you do this you will need to use a shim washer between the head of the mounting screws and the body of the receiver sight to make up for the amount of material you removed from the bottom of the receiver sight so as not to bottom the mounting screws out before the receiver sight is snugged/tightened in place

[Modoc ED]

Paul E. -

Yes, that combination will work or you. That is the top mount receiver sight I was talking about above. If you use it like pictured, you will probably need the new firesight sight pictured.

After you get your set of sights, contact Williams and order a couple/three extra light tubes for the front firesight sight and carry at least one with you when you go shooting. Never hurts to carry a little insurance with you. You could take the butt plate off and put a dimple in the butt of the stock for the spare light tube. DON'T forget to put the butt plate back on.

[Hobie]

That top mount sight, the FP 94AE is not correct for your 1970 gun. You want the FP94/36. I would not get the Firesight front. For MY eyes it destroys the precision of the peep sight system.

[Paul E.]

Thanks Guys for the input, and good eye hobie, (williams didn't have a pic of the FP94/36.-70859).
Any other tips are appreciated before i order next week.
Paul

[jh45gun]

That top mount sight, the FP 94AE is not correct for your 1970 gun. You want the FP94/36. I would not get the Firesight front. For MY eyes it destroys the precision of the peep sight system.

Hobie I use the firesight front sight with a Williams side mounted peep on my Model 94 and I think its great in bright light it looks like a normal sight in darker situations where you need to see the sight better it glows and shows up when you need extra help seeing that front sight. For hunting situations its perfect. At least it is for me.

[Modoc ED]

Thanks Guys for the input, and good eye hobie, (williams didn't have a pic of the FP94/36.-70859).
Any other tips are appreciated before i order next week.
Paul

OOPS!!!!! Sory about that. For some reason, I overlooked the year/era of the rifle. Yes, as Hobie said, you need the Williams FP 94/36 side mounted receiver sight. If your rifle is already drilled and tapped for a side-mounted receiver sight you've got it made. If not, it is a pieced of cake for a good gunsmith to do.

Good catch Hobie. Thanks

[J Miller]

Please help resolve this.

I suggested to a friend that he put a receiver peep sight like the Williams 5D or Firesight set on his top ejecting 30-30, since he can't
see as good as he did when he was a young man. Works for me with my Marlins.
Another fella says, with that Winchester 1894 (top eject, not angle eject) he can't get sighted in at less than 200 meters with a receiver peep sight, but can with a tang mounted sight.
Either style works with my Marlins although I may sometimes have to change the front sight height.
So I'm confused as to this fella's problem, what's up?

Otteray,
I've used the Williams side mount FP 94/36 sight on many top eject Winchester 94s and on one Marlin 1894 CS. I have never needed a taller front sight.
I have replaced the bead sights with a post, or patridge type sight, but only to get a better sight picture.

The person that said you can't use the factory front sight was mistaken. Either that or he tried to install a Williams sight on a rifle that already had a too short front sight.

Thanks for starting this thread for me Ray,

Hey all, New guy here, here is my situation,

I went to the range to shoot my 1970 Winchester model 94 last week for the first time in 30 years, and the factory dovetail sights just don't cut it anymore,
In a perfect world for me I would put a scout mount with a dot scope on it, but on this model from what I have read will require drilling and tapping, Or a Side Mount will work, but these two options are something I don't want to do. (side mount is out of the question for me)
Have done some research and a popular alternative without drilling and tapping is a reciever peep or ghost sight, (I have never used a peep sight, but shoot a fixed sight handgun well)
Does this William's set seem like a good alternative for me? My eyes are OK, just need reading glasses for reading finer print .
Thanks, Paul


Attachments:
File comment: William firesight, reciever mount
63331fp94seset.jpg
63331fp94seset.jpg [ 19.74 KiB | Viewed 2 times ]

Paul, since your 1970 is already drilled and tapped for a side mount receiver sight, you'd need the FP 94/36 version, or Lyman 66A. The one in the picture is for the later AE models and wont work on yours. If you wanted the Firesight set, you'd have to order it that way, but I agree with Hobie about the front sight and precision aiming. I'd suggest a post or sourdough type.
I use this set up on two of my Win 94s and will eventually have it on all my lever guns when I can get the rest drilled and tapped for the sight.

Joe

[Chuck 100 yd]

Kinda confuuzin aint it??? The FP 94/36 is the one you want and replace the front only if you like the glow sight. I dont like the red or green dot sights so like Joe I put Sourdough fronts or just use the factory bead.

[bogus bill]

I bought this 94 new in about 1956 when I was 15 years old. I promptly had a williams foolproof and pad put on. I once shot a nice buck at about 220 yards with it. I have many other rifles and it hasnt seen much use in the last 30 years. I took it to check accuracy at the range last year and it still is spot on, and I havent touched the sight in 50 years!!

[otteray]

Hey, Paul
Welcome to Paco Kelly's leverguns.com!
I told you this site has all the knowledge!
I may have a Lyman 66A on a Marlin that you could borrow and try out; if it fits your Winchester like J Miller mentioned?

[retmech]

I have a 94 AE and thanks to this thread I finally found a picture of the Williams sight mounted on one. I must have missed it going thru the catalog. You gentlemen say a higher front sight is needed with this. Does anyone have an idea what height for the .357 Mod 94?? I'm going to be ordering from Brownells and would like to get both at the same time. The pictured sight appears to be the 5D is that correct?? I want to get the Foolproof with the target knobs. Thanks in advance.

[C. Cash]

Withdrawn for being OT.

[otteray]

retmech,
I think Hobie and others said that if it is the original front sight, you may be good to go; unless it had been filed down or swapped for another in the past.

Paul, I found the Lyman 66A sight, but can't find the receiver base for it
All my other Lyman receiver sights are 66LA ; don't know if that would work.

[Chuck 100 yd]

retmech , I have a Win. AE 24" PG rifle in .45 Colt. I have the Williams FP (AE/top mount sight) mounted on it and the factory front works just great with every load I have fired in it. Try it you will like it!!

[Pisgah]

Some folks have said they've never needed a higher front sight with a reciver sight, and I do not question their veracity; however, I will say that I have installed peeps on eight different leverguns through the years and in EVERY case a higher front sight was required. Thus my only advice would be that if you're adding a receiver sight you may need a higher front sight -- or maybe not.

[Pete44ru]

To any folks adding a Williams receiver peep for the first time - if you order a SET, whether the FireSight set with a fiber-optic front, or a standard set with a bead front - Williams will provide the proper height front sight for the application, with the set.

BTW - Don't neglect to also order a rear sight slot filler blank ($7), to replace the rear barrel sight - as it should be removed from the peep's field of view, for effective peep shooting (or replaced with a folding rear sight).

The only levergun that I've side peeped, which didn't need higher front sights, were Trappers, or other models with front sights mounted directly in a barrel dovetail ILO a ramp mouted front sight.
Top-mount peeps require an even higher front sight.

A lot of sighting variation DOES depend upon a shooter's neck length, head postioning, head size, and fullness of face (chubby cheeked ) - which are all different for each of us.
A shooter with a longer neck or fuller face will carry their eye higher over the comb than a smaller person, to be comfortable.


.

[Paul E.]

Talking lever guns with you guys is like discussing the bible with Jesus Christ,
Thanks for all the great info,
So I am ordering the William's receiver mount and leaning toward the front firesight, (since I really like a dot scope) also will order the filler gizmo for the existing ramp sight and extra firesight insert,
The only thing that I am unsure about is all the cons as far as the firesight goes. Is it all that distracting and inaccurate? or does it cover up the target too much? I plan to have it sighted in at 100 yards.
Paul

[otteray]

Castbullet.com discusses this, Paul.
Sounds like it covers 12" at 100 yards and was shooting good groups, in this article anyway:

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/1871.htm

[Pete44ru]

If you find the Williams FireSight bead too large for your tastes, different, smaller sizes are made - just like Ivory and Gold bead front sights, they come is 1/16" or 3/32".
IIRC, the Williams FO beads are all 3/32", but TRU-GLO and Hi-Vis both make the smaller diameter F-O front sights, some that come in a blister pack with six extra light pipes in two different sizes and colors (red/green).

Many times, certain heights and/or just one part of a "set" is available for the asking ( + a $$ or few) - if you telephone the companies directly ILO some vendor like Midway.

.

[retmech]

I bought the Fool proof firesight set and just installed just the rear on my 94AE. The original front works just fine. It is slightly higher than what Williams includes with the peep so I just had to elevate the rear slightly. Actually I like it that way as I can put the rear buckhorn sight elevator all the way down and it is out of the way and I don't have to remove it.

[Paul E.]

Installed the williams firesight sights last week, and i must say what a differance, the windage is perfect from the factory setting, the elevation needed 1 adjustment to score 2'' groups at 75 yards. I really like the firesight front sight, it acts like a dot scope, and easy to locate the target,
instalation was a snap, i made a front sight pusher by notching the jaws on an old set of vice grips, and a brass punch took care of the rest. I tried to order a set of firesights for my BL 22, but williams doesn't make one, (any suggestions?)
installing the uncle mike's hammer extensions on the leverguns wasn't the easiest task, on both the 94, and BL22, it required alot of filing and fitting for clearances, thanks again for all your input.
Paul

[OJ]

I guess zeroing the sights is an indivual thing and a rifle sighted in for me may well not be zeroed for others. I've put Williams receiver aperture sights on my '94, '95, and other rifles and always needed a higher front sight - not much - just aa 0.6" one to replace the stock one - which I think is 0.5" tall. I like the XS white stripe sights and replacing the stock one was only a little more challenge with the '95.







As always, YMMV

[Pete44ru]

[I tried to order a set of firesights for my BL 22, but williams doesn't make one, (any suggestions?)]

There are no FO sight sets made specifically for a 9422, either, so I mounted an open sight set meant for a M94.
If you want a peep, you're going to have to "wing it", by mounting a clip-on Williams WGRS peep and replacing the front with a proper-height, taller, FO front blade.



.

[OJ]

[I tried to order a set of firesights for my BL 22, but williams doesn't make one, (any suggestions?)]

The Williams FPGR that attaches to the "tip-off" grooves for scopes on rimfires works very well. It's not a firesight but is a good one.





With an XS white line front sight 0.6" high



I kmow it's a little cock-eyed but that's been corrected - it worked OK that way but, I like it better flat.

[otteray]

Paul E, I can bring over my box 'o sights and have a look see for the .22