OT Regulating a pistol

[Otto]

Does reducing the powder charge raise or lower the point of impact at 25 yards?

Does using a heavier bullet with the same powder charge raise or lower...?

Other than altering the gun itself, are there ways to regulate POI?

The gun in question is a Ruger old Vaquero, 45 Colt, which shoots about 4-5 inches low, and 4-5 inches to the left.

[J Miller]

Slower or heavier bullets = higher impact
Faster or lighter bullets = lower impact

If you are sure your Vaquero is shooting that far left due to it's sights the barrel can be tweaked to adjust them. The best way to do that is shoot a group at say 25 yards with a known factory ammo and ship it and the target to Ruger. They will regulate it for you.
The elevation will require either a change of load, or filing down of the front sight.

Joe

[O.S.O.K.]

If its shooting the load into little bitty groups and you don't want to change the load, you can file the front sight to bring the group up.

To change the windage, rotate the barrel slightly - if its shooting left, then turn the barrel left a scootch to bring the groups to the right. You'll need to take the cyliner out, remove the ejector shroud and ejector - clamp the barrel into a vice (wood blocks and rosin do the trick) and carefully use a piece of hickory or similar through the frame to tweek the barrel. Before you rotate the barrel, make a small witness mark down between the barrel and frame where the shroud will conceal it when replaced - will let you see how much you moved. It doesn't take but just a smidge to get the poi to move several inches...

I've done this with both of my old Vaqueros to regulate them for CAS. The barrel gap didn't change appreciably. They both shoot to poi with my load.

My load is 7 grains of W231 under a Laser Cast 250 grain rnfp bullet for 800 fps. I started CAS a long time ago and wanted to feel a little recoil when I shot. I figured it was more realistic and actually provided good training.

[meanc]

Welcome to the world of the Ruger Vaquero.

Every Vaquero I've ever owned or still have shot low and left with my hunting ammo. At 25yds they shoot almost 10 inches low and 5 inches left. Out of the Blackhawks, with the same loads, my POA=POI.

Without modification, the best you can hope for is loading a slow heavy bullet to bring up the impact. Then you just aim a little more to the right.

I'm actually on the verge of trading my only two remaining Vaqueros in for Blackhawks.

[Otto]

Right now I'm experimenting with 200gr RNFP and 8.5 grains of Unique. I am thinking about dropping down to 7.5 grains.

I don't have any problems with my other Vaquero, but I usually shoot 250-grain bullets through it. It actually shoots slightly right, but I just deal with it.

[J Miller]

From my experiences decades ago with the too short front sights on the Uberti made Iver Johnson's imported Cattleman I asked Steve Young to put a taller front sight on mine when he rebuilt it. The front sight he put on is almost an 1/8" taller than the original. The gun now shoots dead on for windage and very close for elevation.

For some reason Rugers tend to shoot left for many people. Much of that can be traced to the way the guns are gripped and the position of the trigger finger. This does make a difference. The rest is just because of the position of the front sight blade.

Vaqueros are or were intended for CAS games. As such there really isn't a standard load for them to regulate the gun to.

In my experience if you regulate a short barreled .45 Colt revolver to the standard R-P 250 and Win 255 gr factory ammo it will shoot very close with most of what you put in it out to around 50 yards or so. Maybe farther. Don't know cos it's been eons since I've played with one past 25 yds. IL you know.

For the elevation problem, it's non issue. Ruger deliberately put a taller sight blade on them so you can adjust the elevation. You just gotta decide on a load first. That's why I suggested the standard ammo.

Don't give up on those Vaqueros. Do the grouping and get them regulated and you'll be happier than a pig in mud puddle

Joe

[Guncase]

My Bisley Vaquero shot left so I tightened the barrel a little. I filed a 45 deg. angle on the back of the blade but still couldn't get a good sight picture. I finally cut it off and made my own. The pics show the sight when I made it. I had to file about half of it off to regulate the elevation.

[Jaguarundi]

Another method that I learned in S&W Armorers school was the "Lead babbit"for fixed sight models(If a LE student 20 some years ago brought there own blued personal revolver to class the instructor would ask to see it.After handling it the armorer would start wacking it.The look on the owners face was priceless ).Securing the Frame (I use rubber pads-made from trashed industrial floor mats)in a mounted vise.Then wack the barrel.The lead will transfer the energy of the blow without marring the blued barrel.(also excellent for removing the side plate of a S&W DA Revolver.By a wack on the opposite side to the plate-plate side down.)My Father (AOC who rewrote the Navy ordanance B school book around 1970)told me the Navy did the same for there M&P smiths to regulate the sights.I suspect Ruger does the same thing.The regulation of Barrels by Lead Babbit requires skill and Patience.Wack then shoot.Only works for 4" or longer barrels.I agree with J Miller "For some reason Rugers tend to shoot left for many people. Much of that can be traced to the way the guns are gripped and the position of the trigger finger. This does make a difference."is the majority of the problem for the left shift.

[J Miller]

Another method that I learned in S&W Armorers school was the "Lead babbit"for fixed sight models(If a LE student 20 some years ago brought there own blued personal revolver to class the instructor would ask to see it.After handling it the armorer would start wacking it.The look on the owners face was priceless ).Securing the Frame (I use rubber pads-made from trashed industrial floor mats)in a mounted vise.Then wack the barrel.The lead will transfer the energy of the blow without marring the blued barrel.(also excellent for removing the side plate of a S&W DA Revolver.By a wack on the opposite side to the plate-plate side down.)My Father (AOC who rewrote the Navy ordanance B school book around 1970)told me the Navy did the same for there M&P smiths to regulate the sights.I suspect Ruger does the same thing.The regulation of Barrels by Lead Babbit requires skill and Patience.Wack then shoot.Only works for 4" or longer barrels.I agree with J Miller "For some reason Rugers tend to shoot left for many people. Much of that can be traced to the way the guns are gripped and the position of the trigger finger. This does make a difference."is the majority of the problem for the left shift.

The lead babbit treatment wasn't only for adjusting POI. A friend of mine used to shoot a S&W Mdl 19 in early IPSC matches and his loads were full house max. After several months he found the cylinder wouldn't latch up all the way. He and I made a trip to a local gunsmith who was really good. He laughed and said: "You bent the frame with your hot loads". Then put it in the padded vise and got out the lead babbit. I thought my friend was gonna mess himself. But the frame got straightened. You can do all sorts of brutal things to fix a gun. But you really shouldn't let the guns owner see you do it.

Joe

[JustaJeepGuy]

I mentioned this a few months back and got skeptical replies, but there was an article in Gun Digest or Handguns (not the magazine, but the annual from Krause) around 2000 or 2001. The author got tired of filing or bending front sights, so he started using a 12-ton hydraulic press to bend the barrels of his Colt SAAs to make them hit where he wanted. I'd say find the article and read it for yourself.

[O.S.O.K.]

Guncase - that is outstanding - beautiful job! I really like that.

What I described (and what I did) was detailed by Mike Venturino in a Handloader or Shooting Times article that he did some time ago. He was adjusting Colt SAA's but the same applies to Vaqueros.

It works quite well and no special tools or whacking needed.