OT-How many times have you started back at your beginnings?

[Old Time Hunter]

Curiosity, probably driven by the economic climate, how many times have you started back at your beginnings? You know, broke and starting over.

I wonder if it tempers the anticipation of the future, or drives one to save for a "rainy" day, or does it lead one to not worry and throw care to the wind?

Being one of the younger gents on this forum, as I am only fifty-five, I can only count maybe four or five times when I was down below my last penny without any expectation of any income or income that was too small. Twice I had to sell or mortgage my home to get by (never gave up my hunt'n land though) and a couple of times I had to borrow from family and friends. One time it forced me to have to start my own business after being out of work for over a year, thankfully the business eventually paid off (took three years to make a profit, tak'n from Paul to pay Peter and so on) and after fifteen years sold it. That was fifteen years ago and I have been gainfully employed most of the time since, but this economy is scare'n the bejabber's out of me. Wonder how long it'll be before I'll have to start all over again.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have never gotten past the beginning stage. I have been trying to make a living for 50 years and haven`t succeeded yet!

[AJMD429]

At thirty I was in debt enough to have just bought a 20-room mansion, yet lived in a ghetto apartment and drove a 20 year old car, but had in my hand a diploma and the promise of the nice income I would make as a doctor.

By fifty, I had spent three different times going 6 to 9 months without ANY paycheck, living during those times on savings and sometimes on borrowed money, but the times in between those three episodes were decent - wages in between a drywaller and a union tradesman.

At this point in my life, I've met enough poor-but-happy and poor-but-morally-and-spiritually-together people, and enough people who would feed and clothe the truly needy all the while they themselves wanted for luxury, to realize that the whole point isn't how many toys you can buy, nor to feel guilty during the times in your life when you may be able to kick back and enjoy a moment of luxury or toy-buying. It can all change so fast, as anyone in the health care field knows!

I've also realized that there are many Gen-X'ers who are trust-fund yuppies born of the boomer generation, and that many of them could buy and sell me several times over and haven't even finished college, or in some cases, high school. Although I envy their ability to go out and buy a nice acerage, or nice boat, or motorcycle, or whatever, or in one day they could buy more guns than I've bought and sold in my lifetime, yet I wonder if they haven't a corresponding handicap - they will not know the wonderful feeling of accomplishment some of us get when we accomplish paying off our first new car, or doing a project on the homestead ourself one step at a time as we budgeted the funds, all the while working to put food on the table and raise decent kids.

Starting over is so rough, and I've had many friends and patients who have had to do that; I've not even come close, although those stretches without paychecks helped me appreciate something I think our fearless leaders and the people who elected them really never will know.

[Hobie]

I was in the Army for 27½ years. For a while it seemed that every PCS was an enforced restructuring. Then I got divorced (well, she left) and I started building "wealth" with a vengeance preparing for the forced retirement that I knew was inevitable. Good thing. I've been able to care for my mother only working part-time. Still, it is possible that all that could be gone given some of the planned activities by the current government. Fingers crossed but not particularly worried. Either I do or I don't survive another day in this world and that has been true every day since June 25, 1973. I am prepared for the next.

[2ndovc]

Struggled for years trying to keep a 100 year plus family buisness going getting deeper and deeper in debt.
Throw in a divorce and....

A couple years ago I was offered to merge my little business into a much larger and more successful one
with a great salary and strong position in the company.
I feel like I've finally found the palce I belong.

It was close. A few more months and I would have had to start selling off properties and everything else just to survive.
I've learned more in the last two years than I have in a very long time.

jb

[Sixgun]

Got started when I was 18 and have been lucky since. (I am now 54) I have been fortunate enough that the company I work for has been doing well in business and has kept me employed since 1973. Being a Teamster has its advantages--you never get rich but you always eat. I have 7 years to go.

Never used a credit card in my life. If I don't have the cash, I don't buy it. I plan ahead on finances, do all my own car/Jeep/truck/home repairs. Never paid anybody to do what I can do myself.

Been married to the same woman for 36 years and whoa....she always told me if I left, I would be living in a tent---she's Italian so I know she means business.

I ain't rich but I do have some of the nicest Colts and Winchesters in Pa. Its because I have been in the game since I was 18, am well versed in the game, and am also fortunate to live in the best area of the country where these guns are. I know a bargain when I see one. Having a best friend who owns a large gunshop/shooting range helps.

Its not how much money you have/make---its how you manage what you have/make.

The Good Lord has blessed me to which I will always be eternally grateful---I don't need much money---just my families health, my health, a good running Jeep, a mess of leverguns, single actions and a place to shoot 'em. The Good Lord has my back----life is good-------------------Sixgun

[Ben_Rumson]

The mill I used to work for was downsizing and I was was at the cut off mark seniority wise...Didn't know if I'd be cut or not...We had a year warning on this and went into a mode of saving $$ like my depression era parents had been saying to all my life.. Man! if I'd/we only started sooner!!..We really crammed the bucks back BIGTIME, good thing too...Because as it turned out I was laid off...Later that month out of the blue my wife lost her job!...Talk about a learning experience!.. Learned to live below our accustomed means and still do(barely) Ran the account all the way down below $400... Things have never been as easy as they once were, but we own the deed to the house and have maybe a years worth of bucks in the bank...have no debt and credit that is as good as it gets..Keeping my fingers & toes crossed tho!

[Old Ironsights]

Never made more than $36K in my entire life... Most of the time at around 24K or less.

Regardless of the bloody University Education.

I've been "starting over" every year of my adult life.

[adirondakjack]

I've been up and down the bottom half of the ladder so many times the paint is wore off

I HATED not knowing how we were gonna pay bills, and dreaming of the day we'd finally "catch up". But in the end, I found that once I had enough income to cover the basics and a few toys or bits of entertainment, making MORE money didn't interest me all that much.

I learned fairly early on (through a nasty, cheating divorce) the down side of working too many hours, and vowed to NEVER work so much I wasn't around for dinner and family time (at least most of the time.)

Since then I started three business ventures, two of which I still "do". I risked every dime I had on an uncertain venture that is solvent and growing, if not taking the world by storm. I'm not making a killing, but we eat good, owe NOBODY a dime, and I have some nifty toys (motorcycle, guns, etc).

What's more, I found I get MORE satisfaction from a "scaled down" existance (out with the power boat, enter the $500 kayak, etc) existence without debt. I can work days, nights, a little of both, am generally home for dinner, my kid sees me daily, etc. I may not die rich, and may well have to start over again, (been there, done that, can do it in my sleep), but it's a GOOD life filled with personal fullfillment and yeah, just a few green stamps now and again to keep the oil man happy, etc.

[Modoc ED]

Well after high school I went to college for two years. Hated it. Sooooo:

I joined the U. S. Navy and spent 24-years in the U. S. Navy as a Cryptologic Technician. The Navy does a lot of cross-training and I got a heavy dose of electronics repair training. When at sea, I hung around with the Enginemen, Boiler Technicians, and Machinist Mates when not on duty and did on-the-job training for engine repair and some machinist work.

After retiring from the Navy, I got a job on the repair-side of a shipyard in San Diego/National City, CA installing electronics in ships in for repair or retrofit. I worked that job for a year and went to work for the power and gas company (SDG&E) in San Diego, CA as a mechanic in their Heavy Duty Diesel Repair Garage. I did some engine work but worked/built/repaired mostly the booms that you see on the boom trucks. Worked on them all -- 25 footers all the way to 175 footers plus.

Totally retired now. Doing ok. Own my house and land (20 acres) outright and the property taxes here are very cheap -- a few hundred dollars less than $1000.00 a year. We're on the grid for electricity but have our own well and septic so household expenses are light to moderate.

I'm 65 and figure I have plenty of factory loaded ammo plus reloading equipment, powder, primers and other components to last for quite some time -- enough to see me out stage left so-to-speak.

[dr walker]

A couple of times. I have never declared bancruptcy, but I have had to sell everything to pay for failed businesses and bad choices.
I feel liberated by starting over, but it is hard on the women in my family. They have a strong need for financial security and when there is uncertainty, it becomes a strain on there emotions and health.
I would guess I have at least one big start-over in the future.

[brucew44guns]

I drove gasoline transports for 42 years. Seemed like I always parked a truck tonight, got in someone elses tomorrow morning and kept going. Never could make a good living though working 40 hours a week, always 60 to 80 for me. I've had hard times, but never clear to the bottom of the barrel.

[Lastmohecken]

I guess I have been pretty lucky, most of my life. I have never lost a job, except for getting layed off in about 81 or 82 for around 3 months, and then I was called back on that job. I got married at twenty, and Now I am 51.

No divorces, although we have had plenty of fights over the years. I recond I have been lucky and or smart, because I have always been gunshy about borrowing much money. Since I have worked construction most of my life, I have always known that things could get slow, like they did in 81 so I never over etended myself for fancy cars, too much house, etc. I have wasted a small fortune on guns, but I never borrowed to do it.

I don't have a lot of money, and I don't really know if I will ever be able to retire, but if I lost my job, and I do have a pretty good job, I wouldn't loose anything, due to having much money borrowed against anything I own.

I do wish that I had the money in the bank that I have wasted on Harleys and guns, but you can't take with you, anyway, and I have had some fun.

[Bogie35]

I'm in the middle of a "start over" right now. My wife left and took with her almost half our income. We were already living week to week, paycheck to paycheck. We share custody of my son, and there's no child support requirement. It's been an adjustment that I have not made easily.

Every time my financial condition seems headed in the right direction something happens, and POOF! Gone. I've given up on the idea that one day I will be on top. I think it's God's will that I continue to struggle, but cheerfully. I have a lot of experience that I can use to help others who are struggling. If nothing else, they can look at me and see that they are not alone in their struggles.

BEING RICH IS NOT ABOUT HAVING EVERYTHING YOU WANT. IT'S ABOUT WANTING EVERYTHING YOU HAVE.

bogie

[El Chivo]

I started over once, at about 32, to go back to school to learn a different trade. I was in an art related profession and they make it impossible to have a life, so I got out.

I haven't been out of work since, my new field has lots of opportunities (optician) though it's generally low pay, I got ahead little by little. I'm doing better now than ever, and I have time to do the things I always wanted to do, including learning to shoot and hunt.

[RIHMFIRE]

After college ended...and dead broke...well almost, I had less than 10 bucks..
no car...small bag of cloths....and started the long walk to Daytona...
125 miles.....got some rides...and by the time I got to Daytona I had 1 nickle left....
got a job...then a second job and at one time I had one full time job
and two part time jobs.....and never looked back...never will get rich
but I'm comfortable....

[JimT]

I started over late one night in 1970 on the Maricopa Indian Reservation. I had pretty much reached bottom. Fresh out of the Army after nearly 3 years in the Far East, I had come to the end of hard drinking and other things that did not help. I got a new start that night and have not looked back since.

My economy is not tied to society's or the stock market or the GNP.

I have Someone that is watching over me and helping me ... and I lean on Him every day.

Up or down, thick or thin, I am taken care of. It has been proven for nearly 40 years now and He has never let me down.

[Old Time Hunter]

Maybe the old saying that the measure of a man is not his victories but his failures, holds some water. It appears that the majority so far have not had the total comfort of financial security thru thick or thin (me thinks that the day of finding a job out of high school and staying with it till retiring is now completely gone), yet even those here that have had the rug pulled out from under them, still maintain a sense of optimism going forward or find it within their sphere of influence. It appears that Rudyard Kipling's "IF" has a tone of reality to it.

Just hope I can maintain a roof over my head in these times. Since over 80% of my income is from commission, I've seen a drastic reduction of revenue since last summer. Guess I'll still have a job, just no pay, but once this dip in the economy is over and if my target industry stays domestic, I'll recover.

[oldmax]

There Is is No Reverse Gear in Life's Travels... Only Forks in the road... Choose wisely
Never dwell on the past, Just remember what you learned ( You did learn didn't you ).

The person in the mirror is the one who caused you problems or successes..

Save ,
95% of whats for sale is not required...
SO Pay your self ( savings ) First. There's always something you bought you didn't need..

I Never made a lot of money, Nor lived an exciting life,
But at 70 years old, I owe nothing .I own my own Home,
2 used vehicles, ( My truck will last me until EOL ) a few guns...and have several small pensions..

I am not rich, But I sleep comfortable every night....
Thanks to God, I am Blessed...

[Hobie]

Its not how much money you have/make---its how you manage what you have/make.

That is so true.

There's more to life than money and things. I have to say that I've never been so badly off that I couldn't eat, stay mostly warm and dry. I've had good health (at least so far). Really have been blessed. Even my divorce was a matter of "good timing" in that I would never have met Mrs. Hobie otherwise.

[Old Savage]

Oldmax - good advice - and all vehicles are used once you have them. Owning a new car is a fallacy. Now paid for that's the deal.

[adirondakjack]

To you fellers working on commission in these hard times, I used to sell cars.

The car biz is brutal in good times, and not any fun when the economy hiccups. But it teaches much. The first and most important thing I learned is MOST FOLKS spend more money on cars than ANYTHING ELSE they ever buy, including houses, and buying NEW cars is like warming yourself with a campfire of $100 bills. It's a neat idea for a few minutes, but ya end up not only cold but broke when the fire goes out. BUY USED CARS AT LEAST TWO YEARS OLD, and hang onto em until they are junk., Oh, buy em CASH!

Cars and houses are dual purpose. Sure, there is a real core need they fullfill, but beyond that, it's scratching a made-up (ego) itch. I got no mortgage or car payments. With the money I DON'T spend on those, I bought a motorcycle (cash), and a bunch of guns, etc. We have two vehicles, average age ten years, paid for, etc. My neighbor and his wife have ONE new car, a mortgage, a home improvement loan, sold their other car and motorcycle, etc. He's working today (saturday) and works a lot of evenings on a second job. They fight a lot and he always looks either harried or tired. Nope, I don't NEED a new car (or addition on the house I gotta borrow money for.....)


If ya work on commission, you can sell. If you can sell you can go to work for yourself. If you find yourself not getting paid often, create a little business that pays on a short cycle and do that in your spare time or after ya decide the other thing isn't gonna feed ya soon enough.

[cowboykell]

Usually the people who say money isn't everything, don't have any.

[JimT]

Usually the people who say money isn't everything, don't have any.

That is possibly quite true. But then again, I have been with a number of people at their death. So far not one of them died wishing they had more money.

[Hobie]

Usually the people who say money isn't everything, don't have any.

That is possibly quite true. But then again, I have been with a number of people at their death. So far not one of them died wishing they had more money.

I know that on a couple of occasions when I thought I would be lucky to see the next morning it wasn't money I wanted...

[Hillbilly]

I started my economic adventures during the Carter years. I have not had 2 nickles to rub together before.
You put your shoulder to the wheel...keep your ears open and have a little trust and faith.

I got really lucky... found a trades job with good Union training and a stable company....got downsized after 15 years but I caught on with another similar business as a management-staff-consultant kinda guy.

Things got a little rough the last couple of years...got stuck on the front end of a collapsing midwestern economy... and stuck with a farm-house that had all my pennies tied up.

I have 15 years to normal retirement... 2 company pensions (if they dont fold up or figure out how to steal em) and a pretty good Union Annuity for pension from them. My part of my sons college is gonna cost me driving a new pickup truck for 6 years or so... but that money was better spent on his education.

Im my line of work I am at the point people pay me for what I know more than what I 'do'... and if I needed to I can still do the work.

God takes care of fools drunks and idiots... and folks like me.

[marlinman93]

Lost everything about 30 years ago. Had one run down used car, and shared a house with a friend. It changed the way I looked at finances, life, and people forever. I have been extremely careful about not going in debt for anything but a home. Pay cash for everything since then, including vehicles. But, I don't hold money in high regard, or worry about it since then.
It's not that I'm rich, or even well off, but I just find that whatever I want or need the Lord seems to provide for me.-Vall

[AJMD429]

Usually the people who say money isn't everything, don't have any.

That is possibly quite true. But then again, I have been with a number of people at their death. So far not one of them died wishing they had more money.

Yep - when I talk to patients with terminal illness about their lives, regrest, and needs (I'm just the dumb FP; the specialists are the ones doing their chemo, surgery, or perhaps telling them it's no use - so I focus on helping them transition, helping their family deal with the pending loss, etc.), they NEVER say they wish they'd made more money, they nearly always say they wish they'd spent more time with their family. Same thing if I ask "What is the best thing you remember about your life?" It is rarely anything to do with money, awards, or material goods; usually it is something like playing Monopoly with their grandparents, going fishing with their dad, their first buck, or learning how to ride a bike. I had one patient without any family who was in a nursing home because he couldn't really live alone, but he wasn't ill enough for me to be doing anything - every couple weeks I stopped by just to hear him relate growing up 'down on the river' in the early 20th century, and hunting, fishing, and girling as a young boy/man. His family was dirt-poor, and he really had to get the rabbit or groundhog or fish or deer to feed them, as his father had passed away and mom busy raising six or seven kids.

For him, shooting, fishing, and hunting was NEVER just a 'hobby' as it sometimes is for us - he had beat-up and often borrowed guns with which to do his job, but even in his 90's, you could see a hint of the same smile he no doubt had when he came home as an eight year old kid and said "Mom, I got us some rabbit for supper..." Hearing things like that is on the one hand humbling, as I debate whether I want the varmint barreled stainless 6mm or the .270 with the burled walnut stock, but on the other hand is testimony to an enduring human spirit and work ethic and family values which transcends generations and money.

The other thing most terminal patients seem to say is that the high-tech health care they may have gotten or be getting is often devoid of human caring. I'm sure Obama's assembly-line 'herd' health care will remedy that - NOT. At least the quadrupled costs will be concealed from the public so they won't realize they're paying way more money for way less care. (As the insurers gain power with the socialized care system being ushered in, it won't be long before some form of disguised euthanasia becomes 'quality care' - we're closer to that now than most of the public realizes...)

[BenT]

I've been very lucky . I have the same job since 1985. But in that time I have worked other jobs on the side. When younger I couldn't stand still . So I got jobs to learn skills that interest me. So I've gained lots of skills along the way. Not having kids until in my 30's . I stopped working second jobs and spent time with my kids. I'm very lucky also that the wife got back in the workforce when the kids got to school age and makes more money than me now. (she reminds me who the bread winner is).

Our main vehicle is 8 years old and has 160k on it and the truck is 13. My wife doesn't want a car loan. So we are going to drive it till it dies and I'm sure they will still be selling cars at that time . Our running joke when traveling cross country is if the van dies, we will just go to a used car lot and get a different car and keep going.

[Old Ironsights]

Lost everything about 30 years ago. Had one run down used car, and shared a house with a friend. It changed the way I looked at finances, life, and people forever. I have been extremely careful about not going in debt for anything but a home. Pay cash for everything since then, including vehicles. But, I don't hold money in high regard, or worry about it since then.
It's not that I'm rich, or even well off, but I just find that whatever I want or need the Lord seems to provide for me.-Vall

I've never really had a burning desire to Net more than my Age... but I've never been able to accomplish 1/2 that.

I don't think I have a bad outlook on Money, but OTOH, being the sole breadwinner with a Medically disabled spouse makes "not living on credit" (when you make less than $30k net) almost impossible...

[cowboykell]

Usually the people who say money isn't everything, don't have any.

That is possibly quite true. But then again, I have been with a number of people at their death. So far not one of them died wishing they had more money.

Kind of a dumb statement! Did any of them die wishing they had less money?

[mescalero1]

I never bought more than I thought I could afford, and I don't really care to acquire flashy things.
Never worn jewelery, though through my gold mine I have raw, 99% pure gold, as it came out of the ground.
Guns are utilitarian, vehicles are funtional.
I recently bought a small sawmill, but that is for a future utilitarian project.
I never stop being amazed at the gadgetry modern people burden themselves with.
Why pay for a device that is invasive?
Like I told Joe M.
guess I'm just not " hip "

[Old Time Hunter]

To you fellers working on commission in these hard times, I used to sell cars.

The car biz is brutal in good times, and not any fun when the economy hiccups. But it teaches much. The first and most important thing I learned is MOST FOLKS spend more money on cars than ANYTHING ELSE they ever buy, including houses, and buying NEW cars is like warming yourself with a campfire of $100 bills. It's a neat idea for a few minutes, but ya end up not only cold but broke when the fire goes out. BUY USED CARS AT LEAST TWO YEARS OLD, and hang onto em until they are junk., Oh, buy em CASH!

If ya work on commission, you can sell. If you can sell you can go to work for yourself. If you find yourself not getting paid often, create a little business that pays on a short cycle and do that in your spare time or after ya decide the other thing isn't gonna feed ya soon enough.

Now that would be a scary profession right now...selling cars. Then again I just bought one, forced to by the company I represent. Contract says nothing older than 5 years and mine was pushing 7 with only 230k on the clock, still runs great too. Since I have to buy my own, guess I'll keep the old girl around as another spare so to speak. Dealer didn't want it too many miles and I bought my new car outright thru the stockholders group purchase, dealer gets $150 to prep and deliver. They do not like to see me since they don't get much of a front end and nothing on the back end. In my profession, I am a independent manufacture's rep (I have seven fortune 500 companies on my line card) specializing in high tech electronic components focusing on the Military/Aerospace and Automotive electronic manufacturers. Unfortunately, we have seen over 75% of the assembly business go overseas in the last 3 to 5 years and now in the last year 33% of the design has been taken off shore (this hurts even more as I am in demand creation not supply fulfilment which goes through global distributors). Hard to believe that most of the guidance system for a TOW missile is now designed in Pakistan/India and manufactured on main line china. That is probably the least scary item for our national defense that I can tell you though. By the way, the logic or semi's for our systems are now programmed in China, you think they could plant a bug in 'em? The next time you touch a steering wheel on your '06 and newer GM truck, think of me, cause that steering sensor has two parts in it that I designed in, guess that'll be offshore pretty quick too.

[Andrew]

I haven't had to start back at my beginnings yet, course, that was about 5 years ago. I know how to manage my money better than I actually have. I am getting "staightened out" again here recently though 'cause the car put some more strain on the money flow along with rebuilding the bathroom. Not to mention that kid #2 will be here next week.

I would be at work right now if they'd let me.

[stretch]

I've only had to start over a coupla times - but I was never down to my last nickel. I went into
the USAF in '78 straight out of high school, did 4years of that as a communications guy. I decided I
didnt' like that, and put myself through college with a degree in music. Went to work making
musical instruments. I started at $5 an hour in '87, and worked my way up to supervisor at over $40K -
good money at the time. Then I ruined my hands with repetitive motion, and spent 10 months out of
work. Worked my way back into the work force as I healed up, started as a security guard, sold tools,
then worked up to assistant manager in a tool store. They closed that store with 5 MINUTES notice,
and the truck ate an EGR valve on the way home. Did I mention the wife was 8 months pregnant?
She almost died giving birth to our 1st sone, and I got into a job selling building materials. I left
that for an opportunity to get trianed in computer programming by the local electric company for
the Y2K project. That was the best 5 years of my life, I think. Then they sold the company, and my job
went to Rochester, NY. I didn't want to go to Rochester, so I got laid off for 10 weeks. What a great time!
My son cried when I got my current computer job with the State of Maine. I don't care for it, but it
feeds the kids and pays well for Maine. My wife is a teacher (music and computers too!), and we
don't lack for anything materail. There are rumblings that my current job won't last, but we have
NO debt and some $ in the bank. Not much, but we'll get by. I've also got the two finest sons on
the planet.

Many folks on the forum have had it ( and still have it) tougher than I do. I've always been grateful
to have had a steady job - but I've always worked hard to get and keep one. My folks were never well
off until I was long out of the house, so I learned to do for myself if I wanted anything. I see lots
of young people depending on others these days. Never was a good idea, and it's still not today.

I like the advice of OldMax - and his observation about a lack of reverse hereabouts! I've learned
to stay away from debt myself - much less worry about money that way.

-Stretch

[centershot]

The Good Lord has blessed me to which I will always be eternally grateful---I don't need much money---just my families health, my health, a good running Jeep, a mess of leverguns, single actions and a place to shoot 'em. The Good Lord has my back----life is good-------------------Sixgun

I'm with you, brother! Amen!


centershot