OT - Calling fans of the 10mm

[awp101]

OK, I joined the 10mm club a couple of weeks ago with a compact EAA Witness.

Reading up on the round I got to wondering if it might benefit from a longer barrel or the carbine treatment for hunting BUT I don't see any carbine other than AR conversions.

Then I got to thinking...

I bet I could find or have a Contender barrel chambered for it. The question is, does anyone have any info on how much improvement/benefit it may gain from a 12"-16" barrel?

[salvo]

I'm pretty sure it would make gains similar to the .357 in a carbine. Just a few inches kick it up pretty good. I don't have a chrony, so I cant give you actual numbers but I did get a 6" barrel for my Glock 20, more for lead bullet shooting but the speed increase is a bonus.

[jhrosier]

.... The question is, does anyone have any info on how much improvement/benefit it may gain from a 12"-16" barrel?

It would probably be close in performance to the .41 Mag. or 38-40 Winchester.
The problem would be that the bullets would still be too light to carry much energy at longer ranges and the long range ballistics of typical pistol bullets is pretty dismal.

It would probably be a fun plinker out to 50 or 75 yards.

Jack

[kaschi]

Everyone needs to experience a 10mm. Great cartridge. I've got one in a S&W 1006.

[GEOFF]

I'm a fan of the 10mm auto cartridge. I've got 9mm's that shoot fairly flat w/o recoil but you can tell powerwise they are at the low end of the spectrum. Then my .45ACP's have acceptable recoil and power but don't shoot very flat at all.

I've had .44 magnums and I'm not afraid to admit, I'd just get to flinching and didn't shoot them well at all. I still like the .45L Colt really well though.

Enter the 10mm! I read Brian Pearce's article on the Kimber a year or so back. I remembered when I was still in high school Jeff Cooper and the Dornaus Dixon Bren 10 and how Jeff Cooper thought so highly of the cartridge. Decided to get the Kimber and WHAT A GREAT COMBINATION!! Shoot long distance, geez for a handgun they are flat, and enough bullet weight to see where you hit. Not too loud, if you get caught away from ear protection. Recoil not too bad. Just a perfect balance in my opinion!! I don't reload for the 10 yet and factory ammo is expensive. But I have to say it is my GO TO pistol for now. The 9's and .45's don't get out much anymore.

I don't know if there are any carbines out there for the 10 but I'd bet something along the lines of the Marlin camp carbine in 10mm would be excellent.

Just my thoughts.

Geoff

[thornblom]

thanks

[Hobie]

I have a 14" Contender barrel to which I've added the Choate extension in order to use it as a carbine.

Hornady Factory load of 155 gr. XTP gets 1454 fps avg for 727 fpe
PMC factory load of 170 gr. gets 1292 fps for 630 fpe
Hornady Factory load of 180 gr. gets 1411 fps for 796 fpe
Federal 180 gr. Hydroshocks are pitiful at 1093 fps for 477 fpe
Rem factory 180 gr. gets 1180 for 556 fpe

My best reload is 10.4 gr. BlueDot under the Hornady 180 gr. XTP for 1271/646

Yes, I have fired .40 S&W but I never chronographed it. Yes, I've fired cast in the 10mm. A 180 gr. cast over I-don't-know-what-or-how-much-powder did 1510/911.

[Rexster]

IIRC, when the FBI was on its 10mm kick a number of years ago, they obtained 10mm HK MP5 buzz guns. There may be some longer-barrel velocity data if you search in that area. I seem to remember a couple of alerts that were broadcast when these were stolen from FBI vehicles parked at area motels.

I also seem to recall LT Col. Jeff Cooper advocating the 10mm for some type of subcompact carbine, indicating it was the one pistol cartridge worth chambering in such a weapon. This was probably before the HK MP5 was made. Of course, he famously disdained most pistol-cartridge carbines. I don't, however, recall seeing any long-barrel velocity data in Col. Cooper's articles or books.

I like the idea of a 10mm in both subcompact carbines and pistols, and when Colt announced the reintroduction of the Delta Elite at last years's SHOT Show, it got my attention. I have not seen them hit the market yet, however.

I still have a bit of 10mm ammo from when I carried a G29 on my own time during the short period I carried a G22 duty pistol. I liked the 10mm cartridge enough to figure I would return to it soon enough, in some way.

[Lefty Dude]

I own a 10mm, My Browning 40 HP.

[Sixgun]

I have very limited experience with the 10 mm. The only way I can shoot the 10mm is with the extra cylinder that came with my 6 and 1/2" Ruger 38-40 "Buckeye".
I only chronographed 3 loads
Like Hobie said-- 180gr. Federal Hyda-Shoks--1015
180 gr.CCI Blazer--1045
my own 180 cast with 10 gr. WAP-
1065
You might be able to compare my velocities with published velocities for the above two loads. I really don't think you can make a "screamer" out of it due to the limited case capacity that is only good with medium powders. These powders usually burn up in the first 6 inches or so, but........I'm no ballistician.------------Sixgun
,

[rjohns94]

I have owned several of the Glock variety. Uncle Ted prefers it as his sidearm.

[Hobie]

I have very limited experience with the 10 mm. The only way I can shoot the 10mm is with the extra cylinder that came with my 6 and 1/2" Ruger 38-40 "Buckeye".
I only chronographed 3 loads
Like Hobie said-- 180gr. Federal Hyda-Shoks--1015
180 gr.CCI Blazer--1045
my own 180 cast with 10 gr. WAP-
1065
You might be able to compare my velocities with published velocities for the above two loads. I really don't think you can make a "screamer" out of it due to the limited case capacity that is only good with medium powders. These powders usually burn up in the first 6 inches or so, but........I'm no ballistician.------------Sixgun
,

Sixgun,
My data comes from an UNVENTED 14-INCH barrel, i.e. a Contender 14". The Federal sure doesn't gain much, does it?

The hottest, and I can't get there, are the Hornady loads:
Hornady Factory load of 155 gr. XTP gets 1454 fps avg for 727 fpe
Hornady Factory load of 180 gr. XTP gets 1411 fps for 796 fpe

[Sixgun]

Sixgun,
My data comes from an UNVENTED 14-INCH barrel, i.e. a Contender 14". The Federal sure doesn't gain much, does it? :lol

Hobie, Thank you for giving me a bit of direction. I have been bored a bit lately so............I'm gonna do some experimenting with the 10mm cylinder using different powders and see what I can come up with. The Ruger is a strong gun so I "hope" everything goes right Boooooooooooommmmm!

A week or two I'll have some results for you boys--------------------Sixgun

[awp101]

Thanks guys!

I'll probably pick up a full size Witness in the near future since a Glock really doesn't fit my hand well but hey, I may end up with a Glock down the line anyway...

I think a 12-14" Contender barrel would be a neat little hunting pistol so I'll keep an eye out for a barrel. I can order one from Bullberry but WOW!

[MikeS.]

My 1st Colt is a 10mm Double Eagle that I bought in 1992. I really enjoy shooting it. I too think a carbine would be great I know I'd snatch 1 up real quick.

[awp101]

I wouldn't be oppsoed to an AR conversion (IF someone other than Olympic made them) but that's not really what I have in mind.

Too bad Kel-Tec doesn't make the Sub-2000 in 10mm!

[Camp Cook]

I have been into the 10mm ever since it came out in the Colt Delta Elite I bought one in late 87 ot early 88 can't remember any more then I bought an 18" T/C Contender carbine barrel then a Gen 3 Glock 20 and my last 10mm is a Gen 3 Glock 29.

Of the handguns the G29 is by far my favorite it takes both the standard G29 mags and the longer full capacity G20 mags and with a mag spacer on the longer mags it feels like one of the new SF (short frame) Glocks.

I have also been reloading 10mm for years and find that IMR 800X gives the very top velocities possible but it is hard to work with and does not meter thru my powder measure accurately enough to safely use it so I load these top loads individually.

Blue Dot is by far the best velocity performer when using a progressive press.

AA #9 is also a good performer and you can't stuff enough AA #7 into the case to reach unsafe pressures so is very easy and safe to use for new 10mm reloaders.

I have velocity data tucked away somewhere and will post when I dig it out.

CC

[Gobblerforge]

Early Americans have had the 10mm since 1880. We just call it the 38WCF. Oh, and it works good in a rifle or revolver.
Gobbler

[Hobie]

CampCook,

I'd like to know what your IMR 800X load for the 10mm is. While the 10mm is useful in a 14" barrel it is hardly what it was touted to be. I have found it to be a great training round for recoil shy shooters. It LOOKS impressive but isn't intimidating when you shoot it (low recoil and muzzle blast) so it gives the shooter a lot of confidence. It is also fairly effective.

[Streetstar]

I like the 10 and wish Colt would hurry up on getting to the market with the reintroduced Delta (introduced last year but still no word on actually ordering one)

[Old Ironsights]

I like the 1cm cartridge - like it better than the .40 Short & Wimpy anyway.

Not quite as versatile as the .357, but still more potent than a .45... and that's saying a bunch.

Be really cool to have a Sub2000 and Glock combo.

[Ravenman]

I was always a great fan of the 10 Auto.
My first one was a Bren Ten Standard and my second a Colt Delta Elite. The Bren Ten is still stock but the Colt got some tuning after a few 1'000 rounds through the original barrel.



This is my first group with the Bren Ten right out of the box at 25 yards.

[2ndovc]

I always thought the Bren was a cool pistol. I was going to buy one when they came out but listened to the Old Man and bought a 1911 instead. That Bren gotta be worth a whole lot more than my .45!

I have a Delta that belonged to a good friend of mine that passed away a couple years ago.
He had done up in the IPSC style of the time and did a little shooting with it.

I don't shoot it as much as I should. It handles like a Lazer. Point it at something and a 10mm hole appears right where you think it should go.

Lousy picture but a great pistol.

jb

[Rusty]

FWIW someone is bringing back the Bren Ten. There are pictures of it on the Glunblast.com visit to the SHOT show.

[Hobie]

And the Delta Elite!