Joined the reloading fray

[Streetstar]

Not an earth shattering declaration i know, but i just bit the bullet and ordered an RCBS Master Rockchucker kit. After telling myself for years i wanted to expand my hobby, i finally did. Next up is a brass tumbler and a Dillon digital scale.

Regretfully, with the current political/economic environment, my first few sessions will be directed towards bolstering my "social stockpile" (code for reloading as much once fired .223 brass as i can for my black rifle) but i am really looking forward to working up some custom loads for my 30-30 and .45 LC

[Ysabel Kid]

Congrats on joining the reloading fraternity!

"Social stockpile"... I love it! Going to have to use that one myself!!!

[stretch]

Glad to see that your addiciton is advancing, Streetstar!

If you have questions, just ask here. Plenty of folks have lots of experience.

-Stretch

[Travis Morgan]

Be sure to order one of those crimp removers that Dillon sells. It makes it a lot easier to get usable .223 brass.

[Griff]

Personally, I'd forego the electronic scale. But, their mdl 2100 tumbler is the cat's meow, only took 13 years of regular, but intemittant use a, followed by 7 weeks of constant (24/7) running to fry the motor!

[Travis Morgan]

If you get the digital scale, it'll make it WAY easier and about 100 times faster to check for double and no charges by weight. It's not even worth it with a beam scale.

[kimwcook]

Congratulations on your leap. I've got to get a digital scale. I still use the ole beam.

[Modoc ED]

I've got both the beam and digital scales. Both have their place but I find myself using the digital scale 95% of the time.

[Travis Morgan]

DO NOT learn from this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98I1i8Toj8E

[Chuck 100 yd]

Enjoy!

[JustaJeepGuy]

The only problem with a digital scale is that you need power. Whether it's an outlet or a battery, you can't use it if you don't have power. Now I've talked myself into getting an old-fashioned scale again....

[Travis Morgan]

Just get both!

[sparky141]

Congrats on joining the reloading realm . Before long you'll have piles of components and loaded rounds .

[JustaJeepGuy]

Just get both!

I had both, but I gave the old-fashioned one to a buddy in an effort to bring him into the reloading world.

[JohndeFresno]

DO NOT learn from this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98I1i8Toj8E

Outstanding! The John Candy of the Reloading World - very funny!

[TomF]

Be careful!! Next thing you know you'll be wanting to cast your own bullets!!

TomF

[Griff]

Be careful!! Next thing you know you'll be wanting to cast your own bullets!!
TomF

And this is a bad thing..... how?

I didn't start casting 'til about 1986 when I found that havin' the wife & son also competing in CAS with me was getting expensive. Then a Sharp's joined the battery, for which there were no jacketed or even lead bullets commercially available. The situation is much different nowadays. And even tho' the little lady quit competing and the son only rarely shoots with me, I still enjoy casting. (Hate lubing & sizing tho!)

And yes, that video is funny; but you really should learn at least one thing from it! Lesson 1: Do NOTHING like this guy!

[Streetstar]

Thanks for the input guys, I am patiently awaiting the arrival of the big brown truck. I had to mail order, as all the shops and outdoor emporiums in my area look like ghost towns in the ammunition and reloading sections currently. Gives me plenty of time to mull over workbench design and placement.

There are some good plans online for an NRA style bench, however, i believe i will get 2 rollaway style toolchests from Sears to form the 2 workbench ends (after removing the wheels of course) with a heavy laminated plywood top (3 layers of birch 3/4" plywood sandwiched together) --- hoping this will give me enough bench surface with plenty of lockable storage in the drawer area

If it turns out alright, i'll post the pics and specs

[Guncase]

Sounds like a great start. The best deal I've come across for a tumbler is from Mid South Shooters Supply. I just bought one for my Brother in law for Christmas. It looks the same as my Midway and Frankford Arsenal tumblers (just different color) and was HALF the price. I also recommend the digital scale. I have both, but can't remember the last time I used the beam. I bought the Pact digital scale because of the lifetime warranty. I'm glad I did because I had to have it repaired. I left it plugged in and the power went out then came back on again and my scale didn't work. They fixed it with no questions asked. I like your bench idea. Should work great. I just use old office desks. I have two with a presses on them, and one with my casting furnace on it.

[Streetstar]

Guncase, that is a similar setup to what i had in mind. Looks like a nice place to tune in and tune out.

One general question i had for anyone is this. I previously stated wanting a small batch of "social ammunition" . An online vendor is advertising primed and formed Lake City brass (1000 ct plus 1000 55 gr FMJ projectiles) for $190 --- basically drop the powder in and press the projectile. Several places still have loaded rounds at 365 - 400 per case new, not once fired. I have not calulated how much of a dollar expenditure enough powder to load 1000 rounds of .223 would be and am trying to see if its more advantageous to just buy a case of the new stuff and skip the tedium of loading 1000 identical rounds of plinking ammo (with my shooting volume - this much would last me at least 5 years, but i know a lot of enthusiasts go through 1000 rounds a month- especially AR and 1911 guys)

Loading a big batch of same 'ol, same 'ol would certainly give me some familiarity and practice with my equipment, but i would rather use it for 30-30 and .45 LC rounds for my real "fun guns" if the cost difference is a wash, or even within $50.00 or so, as i do have just enough experience to know how long it takes to load just 100 rounds of small calibre rifle ammo on a single stage press.

But if loading my own will keep it at $300 a case or less (given the 190 for brass and projectiles) i am all in.

[Guncase]

There are 7000 grains of powder to the pound. Depending on your powder and charge weight, you will use 3 1/2 to 4 pounds of powder. So, you're looking at around $80.00 in my area. You can buy some powders in 4lb. and 8lb. containers. That can save you some money buying in bulk, and you have the benifit of the same lot of powder, so all ammo will be uniform.

[JohndeFresno]

...I have not calculated how much of a dollar expenditure enough powder to load 1000 rounds of .223 would be and am trying to see if its more advantageous to just buy a case of the new stuff and skip the tedium of loading 1000 identical rounds of plinking ammo...
...But if loading my own will keep it at $300 a case or less (given the 190 for brass and projectiles) i am all in.

Streetstar,

There are many considerations to reloading:
1) Cost savings (unless you are sacrificing a $50 an hour job to reload)

2) Ability to reload when ammunition becomes scarce or is not available(!)
Actually, that's why I started, several years ago, when things started "heating up."

3) Ability to tailor a load to your rifle and game.

4) Satisfaction of rolling your own. If you already think it will be "tedious,"
then perhaps you really don't want to shell out a lot of money, at first.
Better start real small until you are sure you will be happy with this pursuit.

Don't forget to factor into your cost analysis:
Brass can be reloaded several times. So, the first load is one price per shell; several subsequent loads can be calculated without the price of the brass, which is considerable. And if you are not loading super hot recipes and are not always loading for accuracy to the minute of angle (like, for defensive handgun use), you might be able to find places or persons that provide you with lots of brass for free. At some public ranges, folks just leave the brass after they fire - once fired stuff is just about as good as it gets, if examined and sorted.

If you get into bullet casting, you save even more; especially if you have a cheap source of lead; although that is something that is fading away, since tire shops and other sources now sell their led to ambitious recyclers who contract with them before you have a chance to insert yourself into the equation.

Using a spreadsheet, I have consistently found that most of my best reloads work out to about 1/3 the price of the store bought ammunition; and I purchase all of my "boolits" - I am not a caster.

If you figure the price of a box of ammunition from a store, you pay markup and sales tax (at least in my state), which is clearly a part of the true price. If you price out ammo from mail order, don't forget to add the Hazmat fees, tax, postage and handling for the TRUE price.

I use a spreadsheet that takes into effect these factors:
* Price (complete, true price with tax and all) of primers per 1000
* Price of brass purchased
* Price (complete, tax, etc. as above) of powder by the pound
Obviously, large lots of powder become cheaper by the grain
Mentioned above - 7,000 grains to a pound for calculations
* Price of "boolits" as they say on this site

The spreadsheet then does its division to figure out the price for one round, 100 rounds, and so on. You will be able to see precisely how much money you save reloading. The only things that I don't think that I can reload cheaper than commercial sources (with my low purchase quantities) are some military surplus foreign rounds (that are corrosive). If I were one who reloads thousands of rounds each month (as some board participants do), then the price would even be lower per round. I don't buy powder in quantities larger than 8 lbs.

Even the cheap "Wally World" (WalMart) 9mm rounds are not as cheap as my reloads, once you factor in repeated loads with the recycled brass.

With the correct formulas, you can put together a spreadsheet the looks like the one below. If you use a spreadsheet and want to know more about how this is set up, send me a PM - I've already written quite a long entry.


The cost per 100 is cut off in the above illustration, NOT COUNTING THE BRASS.
Cost of a .38 target round is: $7.35 per 100
Cost of Hornady A-Max .223: $21.41 per 100
(an excellent varmint and coyote load for a Ruger Mini-14 Rifle).
Pretty cheap; and that is with all new factory components.

Things have gone up since I ran this calculation; but then again there are subsequent reloads in which the brass factor is $0.00 per round!

BUT - depending upon how much you spend on equipment, you will probably need to reload around 3,000 rounds or so before you realize any savings, on a pure cost analysis basis. I paid for my equipment within the first few months; but I saved a lot of money by purchasing second-hand equipment from various sources, such as folks moving up to more expensive toys like the Dillon line of loaders!

[Streetstar]

[4) Satisfaction of rolling your own. If you already think it will be "tedious,"
then perhaps you really don't want to shell out a lot of money, at first.
Better start real small until you are sure you will be happy with this pursuit.

!

John,

thanks for the thorough response and advice. I am already "all in" as the saying goes with my current financial outlay in reloading equipment. Not much turning back now -- the RCBS kit is on its way and i have a stack of Redding die sets to reload for many of my firearms. All i really see a need for equipment wise is a tumbler , dig. scale (my preference) and a case trimmer, oh --- and a whole bunch of components
I have enough experience helping a buddy get ready to go to prairie dog town, as well as reloading a few Weatherby cartridges on his equipment (i re-couped the cost of a .300 W'by die set and powder by reloading just 2 boxes worth of brass for those, as the per box price of anything labelled Weatherby is ga-ga) to realize a pretty healthy interest in the hobby

I was just curious if my cost/benefit would be close enough to do a big (for me) batch of .223 given the price per case. Looks like it will save enough to go for it.

I mentioned tedium, as i am not a super high volume shooter, and doing 1000 identical rounds of .223, with full length re-size on all of them for auto loader usage will turn into work for me. I'm a tinkerer and i think it will be more fun for me working up 20 rounds at a time to group and chronograph to find the best stuff for my individual rifles (regretfully, all the talk about high luxury taxes and possible bans of military specific stuff is what piqued my interest in keeping a batch of .223 around)

My main interest is keeping my hunting and target rifles stocked with affordable, more accurate ammo - rather than feeding my AR endless magazine loads of downrange fodder -- i have 3 rifles in Weatherby specific calibres which ranges from $50 to $80 a box retail , and last time i purchased 45-70's, they also were around $35 a box. But aside from that, it will also give me the flexibility to work up full power loads in .45 LC to use in my Blackhawks. Not to mention, with the relatively loose chambers of Weatherby rifles, having fire formed brass specific to the rifles may help me realize a little bit more accuracy at the ranges these things are supposed to be useful for.

Although this is a levergun forum, my old 30-30 is really the only firearm i have that i probably won't see much reloading benefit for. It gets maybe 3 or 4 boxes a year put through it, and prices for the 30-30 stuff still seem to be stable (cheap). However, i do hope Hornady releases the nylon tipped bullets as reloading components, as i have a significant buildup of brass for it now.
I think i will re-coup enough savings to justify the equipment within about 5 years, (mainly the savings on the W'by stuff if i average 4 boxes a year for each rifle) but the only thing i am trying to cheap skate on is the .223 stuff ---