POLITICS - Lakota Indians Withdraw from Treaties w/US

DDude · Post by **DDude** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:37 pm

SINGLESHOT wrote:What I have to say about the American Indian would get me tossed off this site, indians killed alot of my ancestors in Texas. We should have exterminated them like you would a disease, they had this land forever and all they did was kill one another. The lazy BUTTS sit around and scratch there butt and then complain because they don't have anything. The sooner they all die the better I would like it.

Forgive me, but did I join a forum of ignorant, rascists asswipes? If so, please delete my account.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:46 pm

DDude wrote:Forgive me, but did I join a forum of ignorant, rascists asswipes? If so, please delete my account.

No, you did not. I'm neither ignorant nor racist.

DDude, the best course of action is to stick around and ignore the rare blather like that.

rsy

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:56 pm

I'll suspect that your understanding and comprehension of the US Constitution is lacking since it's something you take for granted. I on the other hand read it, study it and contemplate it regularly since it actually means something to me. Because it is more to me than a piece of toilet paper I want our elected government officials to obey it and follow it instead of doing whatever they want to do as they currently do.

You're still over the edge of KMA, Bubba.......Only an ignorant azzwipe would assume that someone has no love for or knowledge of our country or it's constitution. You don't have much respect for your fellow Americans; Most of Europe folded and kissed Hitlers butt. England and the Soviet Union and the USA pulled all those countries BUTTS out of the fire, so watch your mouth.

I, just like many others, appreciate your service. I did my twenty, too. It's the least you could have done for what you're receiving from this great land. Don't call me a name again, Friend...it won't be tolerated.

DDude · Post by **DDude** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:13 pm

BlaineG wrote:
You're still over the edge of KMA, Bubba.......Only an ignorant azzwipe would assume that someone has no love for or knowledge of our country or it's constitution. You don't have much respect for your fellow Americans; Most of Europe folded and kissed Hitlers butt. England and the Soviet Union and the USA pulled all those countries BUTTS out of the fire, so watch your mouth.
I, just like many others, appreciate your service. I did my twenty, too. It's the least you could have done for what you're receiving from this great land. Don't call me a name again, Friend...it won't be tolerated.

I give my respect to fellow Americans who earn it and don't demand it. Sadly, it's been my experience that most American's don't have a clue as to what is in the Constitution. This is evidenced on a regular basis. I can guarantee that I can go into any warehouse, truck stop or other place and begin asking my fellow Americans to explain how the Constitution works or what is in it and get a lot of blank looks.

This great land is that. But it's that because of the people and not the government. My contention isn't with Americans that obey the Constitution, it's with those who want to ignore it for their own benefit.

As for feeling an obligation to serve in the military because this country has done for me, I can assure you that I don't feel any. I served because I wanted to, not because I felt a debt.

My former father-in-law, a WWII veteran of the Pacific theater seemed to have no problems with my character or beliefs. He actually began to take a greater interests in his own country and how it actually was intended to be ruled as per the Constitution based on numerous talks we shared.

Anyways, as far as I'm concerned, there are two types of Americans. Those who think the government is the greatest thing since sliced bread and those who are watchful of the government taking their last slice of bread. I fall into the latter category. That's how I roll.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:50 pm

My former father-in-law, a WWII veteran of the Pacific theater seemed to have no problems with my character or beliefs. He actually began to take a greater interests in his own country and how it actually was intended to be ruled as per the Constitution based on numerous talks we shared.

I don't have a problem with your character or beliefs, either. Only to the extent that you seem rather eager to hang labels on those that you've never met or sat down to talk to. As a nation, some individuals suck, but as a country we are good. If you're one of those Blame America First people, we wouldn't get along anyway.......The governments change back and forth, the people are still pretty darn good. This country outgrew Manifest Destiny and The Monroe Doctrine and has been shedding blood for and spending treasure on the rest of the world ever since. If you can't appreciate that and see the difference between Us and Them.....well, that just ain't American, either and you need to face up to that, as well.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:07 pm

SINGLESHOT wrote:What I have to say about the American Indian would get me tossed off this site, indians killed alot of my ancestors in Texas. We should have exterminated them like you would a disease, they had this land forever and all they did was kill one another. The lazy BUTTS sit around and scratch there butt and then complain because they don't have anything. The sooner they all die the better I would like it.

TROLL ALERT!!! Remember what AmBraCol, Hobie, JimT and others have said: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS, IGNORE THEM.

ALSO PLEASE TONE DOWN THE TETESTERONE LEAKAGE. I'D PREFER MY THREAD NOT BE LOCKED DOWN BECAUSE OF PERSONAL FLAMES AND INSULTS.

Thank You most kindly;
Joe

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:12 pm

J Miller wrote:
SINGLESHOT wrote:What I have to say about the American Indian would get me tossed off this site, indians killed alot of my ancestors in Texas. We should have exterminated them like you would a disease, they had this land forever and all they did was kill one another. The lazy BUTTS sit around and scratch there butt and then complain because they don't have anything. The sooner they all die the better I would like it.
TROLL ALERT!!! Remember what AmBraCol, Hobie, JimT and others have said: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS, IGNORE THEM.

ALSO PLEASE TONE DOWN THE TETESTERONE LEAKAGE. I'D PREFER MY THREAD NOT BE LOCKED DOWN BECAUSE OF PERSONAL FLAMES AND INSULTS.

Thank You most kindly;
Joe

Joe, I'll try not to leak....at my age, I need every bit I can manage to find......

DDude · Post by **DDude** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:30 pm

BlaineG wrote:
I don't have a problem with your character or beliefs, either. Only to the extent that you seem rather eager to hang labels on those that you've never met or sat down to talk to. As a nation, some individuals suck, but as a country we are good. If you're one of those Blame America First people, we wouldn't get along anyway.......The governments change back and forth, the people are still pretty darn good. This country outgrew Manifest Destiny and The Monroe Doctrine and has been shedding blood for and spending treasure on the rest of the world ever since. If you can't appreciate that and see the difference between Us and Them.....well, that just ain't American, either and you need to face up to that, as well.

You sir took me to task first by posting with a response to my quote. I never called you or anyone specifically an asswipe. I used it in a generic sense only. Read my blog and you'll notice this as I often paint people's idiotic, assinine behavior as that of an "asswipe". If you took it as a personal attack on you then you're in error. In every forum I've ever participated on I never get into peeing constest with people I don't know personally nor do I resort to juvenile name calling on a personal level. Never have, never will.

As for the people of this country, I've been dealing with fellow Americans from all walks of life for thirty-eight of my forty-three years living in this country. Most are easy to get along with and a pleasure to chat with. Some are just complete morons that makes you wonder what if anything fills the space between their ears.

I've never Blamed America for anything. I simply believe that the government we have has gone far beyond it's authority as prescribed in the Constitution. Our government does what it does for whatever reason simply because it's human nature of those in power to increase their power by whatever means possible. I am highly suspect of everything our government does as many of the Founders hoped the citizens would be in order to keep this nation free.

As for shedding of blood, I contend that most of it is shed for the benefit of bank accounts and not freedom. It was for this reason that after completing my tour of duty I moved onto greener pastures in the private sector.

I don't believe that the United States has the right to tell any other sovereign nation what it can do or can't do. It's not our business. If and only if another nation becomes hostile towards us should we return fire and read to them from the Good Book. But until then, the US should keep it's nose out of their business.

Canada is the closest friend and ally of the US. Yet I've got family members and friends there who believe that the US is and does attempt to dictate to Canada what it can or can't do for the sole benefit of what is best for the US. Ask many out in British Columbia about the softwood issue that was in the news up there a few months ago. Or the beef industry in Alberta. Resentment is present there because the US attempts to dictate the policies of another nation when it has no authority or right to do so. Stick you nose into you neighbors business and see if your neighbor doesn't bust you one on the chops with raging resentment. What happens in my neighbors house is none of my business until it spills across my fence. Same should go with the conduct of by our government in relation to other nations.

I'm never going to be one to approve of what our government does simply because our government doesn't obey and abide by the contract it supposedly has with "the people" as outlined in the Constitution. 2A supporters should see this more than anyone else as that beloved amendment is under constant attack by our very own .gov. We resent this attack because it means that the loss of the 2A means the end of Freedom and Liberty... the most important thing we cherish.

We're likely in the same book... just on different pages.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:40 pm

Just one more shot, maybe, and I'm done:

As for shedding of blood, I contend that most of it is shed for the benefit of bank accounts and not freedom. It was for this reason that after completing my tour of duty I moved onto greener pastures in the private sector.

Freedom and flush bank accounts go hand in hand. One equals the other. Period. You won't find one place in the world where that credo does not hold. Thank God and America that Democratic Countries recognize that and continue to do what is necessary to prosper. To place that in perspective, people on the Res and Ghetto are NOT free....the Socialists/Liberals keep them there as a political base. They do not prosper. In the not_so_past, it has sucked to be Black, Indian, Jewish, Catholic, Irish, Italian, Slavic, Etc..........All that is needed is a work ethic and some basic education and you will live better than about 90% or more of the world.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:01 pm

DDude wrote:Nowhere in the US Constitution does our federal government have the authority to launch interventive measures against other sovereign nations as evidenced by the current situation with regards to Iran and nuclear weapons.

Think of the world as a home and the nations as a family (albeit a dysfunctional one).

Do you allow 4-year-olds to have loaded guns in your home?

DDude · Post by **DDude** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:06 pm

BlaineG wrote: Just one more shot, maybe, and I'm done:

As for shedding of blood, I contend that most of it is shed for the benefit of bank accounts and not freedom. It was for this reason that after completing my tour of duty I moved onto greener pastures in the private sector.
Freedom and flush bank accounts go hand in hand. One equals the other. Period. You won't find one place in the world where that credo does not hold. Thank God and America that Democratic Countries recognize that and continue to do what is necessary to prosper. To place that in perspective, people on the Res and Ghetto are NOT free....the Socialists/Liberals keep them there as a political base. They do not prosper. In the not_so_past, it has sucked to be Black, Indian, Jewish, Catholic, Irish, Italian, Slavic, Etc..........All that is needed is a work ethic and some basic education and you will live better than about 90% or more of the world.

Best shot is all you can give it.

Let me clarify my position. Shedding of blood for the sake of money for personal gain using military forces to achieve that goal outside the context of the Constitutional under the supposed pretext of maintaining "freedom"... the current state of affairs we currently live under in this "War on Terror" BS.

Political idealogy means little to me. Truth means everything. There is only one truth, but many lies. The Constitution was based on upholding what is true.

The bureaucracy we have in Washington is hell bent on doing what it wants at the expense of our freedom bestowed upon us by the Creator. Too many Americans believe the Bill of Rights is the government giving us rights. Whenever I hear people say "I owe the government taxes" I cringe. Since when do free people owe the government anything? Least of all what is ours earned by our sweat and labor? Unfortunately I hold no hope that the 16th Amendment will ever be repealled. So I deal with it and allow the government to take it's "cut" and try to survive on what remains. Such is life. I don't like it but until enough of us group together to change it, it's what we deal with. Things like this are what makes me distrust my government.

My views were voiced by many of the Founders prior to the Constitution's ratification. Those who feared a large, central government have had their fears realized in this day and age. Even those who favored a central government likely would be disgusted that it got as big and overbearing as it has. Who knows.

cowboykell · Post by **cowboykell** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:07 pm

Don't worry about the Sioux, they're getting paid back one nickel at a time.

DDude · Post by **DDude** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:15 pm

RSY wrote:
DDude wrote:Nowhere in the US Constitution does our federal government have the authority to launch interventive measures against other sovereign nations as evidenced by the current situation with regards to Iran and nuclear weapons.
Think of the world as a home and the nations as a family (albeit a dysfunctional one).

Do you allow 4-year-olds to have loaded guns in your home?

The problem is that the world isn't one single home. There are 194. What happens within my home is not the business of my neighbor. Nor is what happens in their home my business. And as I pointed out, until it spills across my fence it stays none of my business.

I've read my copy of the Constitution through repeatedly and can't find where we have the right to intervene into the business of other nations. If you can show me, please do so.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:21 pm

DDude wrote:What happens within my home is not the business of my neighbor. Nor is what happens in their home my business. And as I pointed out, until it spills across my fence it stays none of my business.

OK, so when your neighbors put in a meth lab that would level your house if it blew, you'll just wait until that happens to make it your concern? Is that what I'm reading?

DDude · Post by **DDude** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:57 pm

RSY wrote:
DDude wrote:What happens within my home is not the business of my neighbor. Nor is what happens in their home my business. And as I pointed out, until it spills across my fence it stays none of my business.
OK, so when your neighbors put in a meth lab that would level your house if it blew, you'll just wait until that happens to make it your concern? Is that what I'm reading?

Sorry you missed the gist of my simple analogy. In such a case as you describe there are appropriate actions that can be taken... ie, notifying law enforcement under current law.

Let's use Hurricane Katrina as an example. When the city of New Orleans began going around taking weapons from civilians people cried out in shock. The city had no authority to do what it did.

Using this as an analogy of the US government going to Iraq and taking their weapons is the exact same thing, only on a larger scale. Except in this case no shock as it's done in the name of "War on Terror" which is BS.

If you could show me in the Constitution where our government is given the authority to tell another nation what is can do please point it out to me, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise I'll continue to keep on believing that the US government is overstepping it's Constitutional authority.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:21 pm

Well, let's tend to first things first. You like bringing up the Constitution.

What does our Constitution have to do with the nature of our foreign policy. It generally addresses who does what in Article II, but does not, AT ALL, go into the moral do's and don't's of the issue. That much is a stone cold fact.

So, to borrow your phrase somewhat: Show me in the Constitution where our government is NOT given the authority to tell another nation what it can do.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one, so hopefully I'll see you on a lever-related thread sometime soon.

scott

jd45 · Post by **jd45** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:38 pm

STAND BACK!!! T ALERT....(TA being testosterone alert), It takes me all night to do what I used to be able to do all night!!!! TL ALERT!!! I need counseling!!.....(preferably female) jd45

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:43 am

Using this as an analogy of the US government going to Iraq and taking their weapons is the exact same thing, only on a larger scale. Except in this case no shock as it's done in the name of "War on Terror" which is BS.

Every Iraqi family is allowed to keep the family AK47 and other personal protection pieces........

pharmseller · Post by **pharmseller** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:19 am

You said
"The problem is that the world isn't one single home. There are 194. What happens within my home is not the business of my neighbor. Nor is what happens in their home my business. And as I pointed out, until it spills across my fence it stays none of my business.
I've read my copy of the Constitution through repeatedly and can't find where we have the right to intervene into the business of other nations. If you can show me, please do so."

The problem with this attitude is the belief that the genie can go back in the bottle once it "spills across the fence" (I'm mixing metaphors but you get the point). If I can be reasonably sure that another nation is bent on my destruction is it not prudent to limit their arsenal?
My belief is that what goes on in my home IS the business of my neighbor if it involves the destruction of my neighbor. Similarly, what goes on in my neighbor's house sure as heck is my business if it involves nukes that they will use on me.
The world has been too small for about 100 years for your policy to be appropriate.

Quinn

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:29 am

DDude...

Thanks for your insight. You are a very wise man.

Most of the guys on this forum are really great guys. However, there are several guys on this forum who couldn't care less when the U.S. government does something dishonorable. Their attitude appears to be that whomever the government dishonors deserves it. Of course, if the government dishonors THEM in even the slightest way, they whine like 4 year olds who have just been told that it's nap time. It's the classic "double standard" syndrome. Actually, they are a lot like the Iraqi people. They are not at all concerned with what is right and good, so long as they get to be on the winning team.

I am now leaving this thread with the hope that the shockingly and absurdly double standard whinings will...just go away.

Happy Trails my fellow Americans,
bogie

24thMICH · Post by **24thMICH** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:42 am

I certainly don't claim to have any answers, only a few things to throw into the stew pot.

Obviously, the "Indians" weren't from India, so the name doesn't really apply. Even the folks in India aren't called "Indians," they're called Hindus for the most part (and if we were being linguistically consistent we'd be calling the place "Hindustan" or at least calling the other countries in the region names like "Afghania" or "Pakia.")

"Indigenous Americans" doesn't really apply either, as that implies they've been here forever. They haven't. Most archaeological and DNA research indicates the "native peoples" actually came mostly from northeastern Siberia, with small groups in the northwest around Washington and Oregon came from Japan (the folks were apparently following the "kelp islands" offshore from Japan to the Aleutians downwards into Oregon). On the east coast, there's evidence that pre-Spanish Europeans travelled westward on the southern edges of an Ice Age glacier that covered the entire North Atlantic and ended up in the Virginia/Maryland areas.

So do we call these folks that Columbus met "Siberian-Japanese-Spanish-American immigrants"? How far back are you allowed or not allowed to go when you designate these things?

And on that basis, seeing that the Siberian tribes are connected to what are called the "Arctic peoples" that include many Finno-Urgic variants such as the Samoyeds, the Ostyaks and others who are related to the Sami (Lapps) and the Suomalainens (Finns), does that mean that somehow I can collect some of the casino money collected down at the casino run by the Ojibwa tribe some 30 miles south of here? What about all those Japanese-American folks in California collecting at all the casinos on the West Coast or the Spanish or Basque-American folks living on the East Coast? Or is the exclusionary rule saying you have to demonstrate 1/30th Ojibwa blood in your veins okay in this instance but was absolutely scandalous when it was done in reverse in regards to voting rights for African-Americans in the Old South and is still absolutely scandalous when used in Israel to this day? What's the rule here and who makes it?

My Finnish/Sami/Estonian ancestors were routinely gathered up and sold in the slave markets of Istanbul by both the Western Vikings (now known as the Swedes) and by the Eastern Vikings (now known as the Russians) throughout the middle and late middle ages (as were a lot of other local peasants of Slavic origin, whcih is where we get our word "slave.") On my Dad's side of the family my English/Irish peasant ancestors were routinely gathered up and sold in the Muslim (Moorish) slave city of Seville iirc. On the first day of the battle of Gettysburg, my Black Hat Irish-Canadian-American great-grandfather was shot in the leg and would have died in a Yankee field hospital had he not deserted for a few days and treated himself using his own self-taught veterinary procedures. Had he died I obviously wouldn't be here.

All of this leaves me wondering how and why I'm personally responsible for reparations to African-Americans for the slavey their ancestors experienced at a later date and different location than my ancestors experienced, at the hands of folks I'm not even distantly related to. The Finnish side of my family didn't get here until around 1910, and as I said, my present English-Irish side was almost eliminated at Gettysburg because my great-grandfather joined the fight to preserve the Union and eliminate slavery and ended up getting himself shot. Why do I get to pay taxes so some kids get full-ride college scholarships based on the injustices in their ancestories while at the same time I get to pay full tuition for my kids when they get of age based on the supposed "privledges" of their ancestories? My great-grandfather didn't experience any privledges. He was dirt-poor when he enlisted and rarely got any disability pay after he left the army after working the honor guard for Lincoln's funeral procession to Illinois. He had chronic leg and back pain for the rest of his life which messed up his ability to work in his profession as a wheelwright and died dirt-poor at age 50. The one privledge my great-grandfather received was the right to almost get himself killed in a semi-honorable cause (the later end-slavery justification for the war was honorable; the initial economic cause of the war--the tariffs the industrial north imposed on the less populous south to force it to sell cotton to the north at ridiculously low prices compared to what the French and the English were willing to pay--was not honorable). The one privlege my Finnish grandfather received was the freedom not to get drafted into the Russian army when Czar Nicholas II was trying to deport all Finnish males into Siberia in his effort to Russify Finland. He got here dirt-poor and died here dirt-poor. I grew up dirt poor and am better off now, but am hardly wealthy by any means.

This injustice thing in my opinion can only go so far. Most folks in their ancestories have been screwed over in one way or another. Tribalism essentially doesn't work. Folks seem to have forgotten the Unum side of the national motto E Pluribus Unum, "Out of Many, One." Now it seems to be "Out of Many, Many (and they're all upset off)."

The concept of being an "American" is essentially an idea, one based on liberty, individual freedom and limited government. The core idea in the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution is that as humans, we are all equal under God and so therefore no human is "better" than any other human. Power, rather than flowing from the top-down by a divinely appointed King, Caesar, Pharoah or Tyrannus, flows upwards from the People, who essentially elect servants to represent them in the central government. The politicians aren't supposed to "rule" us so much as to represent us.

The original "liberals" are more or less the equivalent of what we today call libertarians. Most of the folks who call themselves liberals today are the intellectual desendants of Alexander Hamilton, who argued for a strong central government with weak subservient state and local governments, more along the lines of the conventional governments of Europe and today along the lines of what we might call Euro-socialism.

The ideas behind the Constitution, like the ideas behind the Bible, have historically been violated more often than they have been followed. Nonetheless, they are supremely good ideas, well worth subscribing to and striving towards.

One of those central ideas is that we are Americans, not Finnish-Americans or Irish-American, African-Americans or Native-Americans. Once we consciously subscribe to our central identity as Americans, we let go of our previous affiliations, which includes our previous tribal grievences with one another as well as any claims to tribal restitutions of one kind or another.

The one restitution is the restitution of our liberty and our equality. We are restored to our God-given equality before all men and women, and restored to our liberty to make of our lives what we make of it, free from historical penalties or historical privledges.

In my mind, anything more than that is an ultimate prescription for what these days is called balkanization, social and political chaos and disharmony, and ultimately dictatorship. When things get bad enough, people will always call for a Caesar to take over and "make the trains run on time."

.

DDude · Post by **DDude** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:41 am

RSY wrote: So, to borrow your phrase somewhat: Show me in the Constitution where our government is NOT given the authority to tell another nation what it can do.

The Constitution is silent on this subject. And as the 10th Amendment states...

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

I don't recall this issue being sent to the individual states to decide upon. The US.gov under Presidential leadership just arbitrarily take it upon themselves to take action against a sovereign nation(s).

Thus you're advocating that another nation's sovereignty is meaningless in our eyes because we have the ability to insist on them doing things the way we want them done.

I posed the question last night to my wife who is Canadian. I asked her how she would feel if the US.gov went to the Canadian government and demanded that it close down it's nuclear plants because it (the US) thought that they (Canada) might begin building nuclear weapons and could possibly use them on the US. She flatly told me what business is it of the US what Canada does.

If a CCW holder spots a person who "looks menacing", does the CCW holder have the right to take preemptive action against that menacing looking person with an attack just because the CCW holder thinks he may be attacked?

Nations interacting with nations are no different than individuals interacting with individuals. The scale is just different, but the relationship is the same.

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:47 am

It is interesting what connections have been made to the original news posted...

DDude · Post by **DDude** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:55 am

Hobie wrote:It is interesting what connections have been made to the original news posted...

The entire topic basically is how does one nation deal with the actions of another and the relationship between the two. It's all interconnected, even if the scenarios are somewhat different.

gregg · Post by **gregg** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:01 pm

gregg · Post by **gregg** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:14 pm

MY FELLOW DAKOTANS. I HAVE REREAD ALL

THE POST AND SEE WE HAVE NO DOG IN THE FIGHT

AND KNOW VERY LITTLE OF WHAT WE DO HAVE TO SAY

Welcome aboard James. Glad to have another levergunner.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:21 pm

DDude wrote:
Hobie wrote:It is interesting what connections have been made to the original news posted...

The entire topic basically is how does one nation deal with the actions of another and the relationship between the two. It's all interconnected, even if the scenarios are somewhat different.

With government largess comes government interference. On the other hand, Canada is not so shy at all when it comes to telling the US where it's screwing up. I find most foreigners and naturalized citizens are very happy to point out what's wrong here, but none seem to want to go back, do they

pharmseller · Post by **pharmseller** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:34 pm

"If a CCW holder spots a person who "looks menacing", does the CCW holder have the right to take preemptive action against that menacing looking person with an attack just because the CCW holder thinks he may be attacked?"

Let's say the CCW holder has been attacked by this guy before. Let's say the CCW holder has been attacked by others before, and that this guy helped the others. Let's say the guy had a sign in his yard saying "I'm going to kill you and your family." Let's say the CCW holder knows that this guy's idea of Paradise involves the murder of WHAT HE CALLS INFIDELS. Let's say the CCW holder had some friends of his kidnapped by this guy and his friends. Let's say the CCW holder knows that this guy's buddies cut people's heads off.
NOW the CCW holder spots the "menacing looking" guy. What do you do? Hope that "maybe this time" will be different? Or do you take him at his word (Death to America!)?

I'd really like to know.

Quinn

crawdaddyjim · Post by **crawdaddyjim** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:19 am

The states are represented in the Congress. The representatives voted to take action against the Iraqi regime.

The Constitution states that the Fed gov't has the power to make war. It doesn't limit with whom and where. Otherwise we would not have had the civil war.

Sorry about the Lakota. But them that was wronged are now dead some hundreds of years. Time to move on.

Someone said two wrongs don't make a right. And that is true.

You would no more imprison a man for the crimes of his father.

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:02 am

This mentality in my opinion is why many people around the world have a high level of disdain for America.

I care not one whit about what other countries think of us. Indeed, it should be the other way around....THEY should be quaking in their ragged shoes wondering what the US thinks of THEM! Wondering if we are going to cut off our wheat shipments, and medical supplies, and corn shipments, and vaccines, and clean water supply trucks, and all the aid we send them so they can sit around and wear their Osama Bin Laden t-shirts in front of the CNN cameras like they did after we sent the US navy aircraft carriers and medical ships to bail their butt out (yet again) after a tsunami leveled their towns, and after earthquakes flattened their villages. Sorry, but somehow I REALLY just do not care what they think anymore.

Ridgerunner · Post by **Ridgerunner** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:33 pm

I work with a guy who is part Lakota, I told him the first daub of paint on his face gets him shot!

DavidF · Post by **DavidF** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:45 pm

Ridgerunner wrote:I work with a guy who is part Lakota, I told him the first daub of paint on his face gets him shot!

Thanks for that. I laughed out loud.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:01 pm

coyote nose wrote:
This mentality in my opinion is why many people around the world have a high level of disdain for America.
I care not one whit about what other countries think of us. Indeed, it should be the other way around....THEY should be quaking in their ragged shoes wondering what the US thinks of THEM! Wondering if we are going to cut off our wheat shipments, and medical supplies, and corn shipments, and vaccines, and clean water supply trucks, and all the aid we send them so they can sit around and wear their Osama Bin Laden t-shirts in front of the CNN cameras like they did after we sent the US navy aircraft carriers and medical ships to bail their butt out (yet again) after a tsunami leveled their towns, and after earthquakes flattened their villages. Sorry, but somehow I REALLY just do not care what they think anymore.

Yeah....what he said...in spades...