Winchester 1894 Feeding Problem

[jschance]

Got a question for the board.

I've got a Winchester 1894 30-30 carbine that I'm having some feeding problems.

When you cycle the lever, the round will kick out of the magazine and then as you bring the bolt forward, the elevator brings the round nose up to feed into the chamber, the bolt and round go about 1/2 way in and then the round jams. If I back off the lever, the base of the round will pop up and then you can close the action.

I'm using reloads using the Ranch Dog bullet, loaded with the crimp in the top crimping groove. I've tried several different cast bullets, and I'm getting the same results.

So, what I'm trying to say here is "....HELP!!"

[J Miller]

Got a question for the board.

I've got a Winchester 1894 30-30 carbine that I'm having some feeding problems.

When you cycle the lever, the round will kick out of the magazine and then as you bring the bolt forward, the elevator brings the round nose up to feed into the chamber, the bolt and round go about 1/2 way in and then the round jams. If I back off the lever, the base of the round will pop up and then you can close the action.

I'm using reloads using the Ranch Dog bullet, loaded with the crimp in the top crimping groove. I've tried several different cast bullets, and I'm getting the same results.

So, what I'm trying to say here is "....HELP!!"

Just for the record, how does the gun work with factory ammo, or reloads using jacketed bullets to factory specs?

Are the cases full length resized or just neck sized?

What is the O.A.L. of the cartridge? I have no idea of what the Ranch Dog bullet looks like.

How do the cartridge guides look? Are they worn, or abused, or has someone in the past filed on them. ( I've seen all of these conditions. )

Just some questions to ponder on. But I'd try it with factory ammo first as it sounds like a length or case sizing problem to me.

Joe

[KCSO]

Check and see if it has the stamped lifter. It is, it is probably bent, a bent lifter needs to be replaced they don't straighten.

[Malamute]

Are you sure you are describing this properly? The lifter doesn't raise the nose of the bullet until the bolt is going forward? This is not proper function for a Winchester, the lifter should snap up on the rearward motion of the bolt, and feed the round as the bolt goes forward.

[jschance]

Just for the record, how does the gun work with factory ammo, or reloads using jacketed bullets to factory specs?

Are the cases full length resized or just neck sized?

What is the O.A.L. of the cartridge? I have no idea of what the Ranch Dog bullet looks like.

How do the cartridge guides look? Are they worn, or abused, or has someone in the past filed on them. ( I've seen all of these conditions. )

Just some questions to ponder on. But I'd try it with factory ammo first as it sounds like a length or case sizing problem to me.

Joe

Sorry, you've got me confused, I'm not real familiar with these terms "factory ammo" and "jacketed bullets" I couldn't remember the last time I bought factory ammo for a Cowboy Gun.

I bought this rifle 'well used' this summer, and have only played it a limited time.

The O.A.L. of the loaded round is 2.475" The Ranch Dog bullet is a cast bullet with a large meplat, he actually designed the bullet to feed in lever action rifles (specifically Marlins). The bullets were loaded into brass that had been full length resized using Lee dies, trimmed to the 'trim to' length listed in a Lyman's loading manual. The catridge guides appear to not have been filed on, but I'll get a glass and take a better look this afternoon.

Malamute, you are correct I was mis-describing the feeding cycle. The round is nose up at the rearward most travel point of the lever stroke. The rest is correct. The round is hanging up about 1/2 way into the chamber, so I don't feel that it's a resizing issue.

The lifter appears to be machined.

[Nath]

That OAL seems short to me, can you try 2.550".
I use to get the same problem with a light cast I sometimes used, they were short due to their light weight but also would touch the lands if I did stick m' out more.

Try a dummy further out.

Nath.

[J Miller]

Sorry, you've got me confused, I'm not real familiar with these terms "factory ammo" and "jacketed bullets" I couldn't remember the last time I bought factory ammo for a Cowboy Gun.

Then perhaps you should UNconfuse yourself. Factory ammo is the standard by which we all judge our reloads. In the case of the 30-30 jacketed bullets is what the factories load in them. You know the copper thingy sticking out of the skinny end.
I would suggest you reacquaint yourself with the subject of factory ammo.
And calling a Win 94 "a Cowboy Gun" is as much a misnomer as calling a 1911 an Army gun. While true to small degree is more wrong than not. I've had lots of them and I'm not a cowboy. I don't even have a cowboy hat or a set of cowboy boots.

I bought this rifle 'well used' this summer, and have only played it a limited time.

In that case it could have all sorts of hidden problems you don't know about. Have you taken it completely apart for a thorough cleaning? Inspected the internals for damage, rust, wear? That's the first thing I do when I buy a new to me used gun.

The O.A.L. of the loaded round is 2.475" The Ranch Dog bullet is a cast bullet with a large meplat, he actually designed the bullet to feed in lever action rifles (specifically Marlins). The bullets were loaded into brass that had been full length resized using Lee dies, trimmed to the 'trim to' length listed in a Lyman's loading manual. The catridge guides appear to not have been filed on, but I'll get a glass and take a better look this afternoon.

The O.A.L. of Remington factory 150gr ammo is generally: 2.51". However this box I have on had varies from 2.488" to 2.52". Really consistent junk. I can make better myself.
A box of my handloads using all Winchester components measures out to: 2.55" on average.
So your O.A.L. of 2.475" isn't too long.
The reason I suggested testing it with factory ammo is to eliminate or confirm the ammo as the cause of the malfunction.

Malamute, you are correct I was mis-describing the feeding cycle. The round is nose up at the rearward most travel point of the lever stroke. The rest is correct. The round is hanging up about 1/2 way into the chamber, so I don't feel that it's a resizing issue.

The lifter appears to be machined.

I have no experience with Lee rifle dies, but if they are as good as the one set of their .45 Colt dies then I suspect you may be correct about the cartridge sizing not being the problem.
Now, you didn't tell us the vintage of this rifle, Pre-64, Post-64 and it does make a difference in the way the lifter looks.
Pre-64s are machined. Post 64s could be stamped like Malamutes said, or cast. The later cast ones look kinda like machined ones, but they are not.

Now, here is a test you do easily. Since this rifle was used when you got it, you really don't know how bad it was used.
Alright, open the action slowly. As you get to the point where the bolt pulls the top of the lifter back to rotate it up, does it snap up, or just follow the bolt up? Now with the bolt open, reach in with a finger and push down on the lifter. There should be a resistance as the lifter cams over the lifter spring, then it should snap down.
If it does not snap up and down, then something is broken, loose, or worn. Either the lifter spring or the inverted triangle of the lifter.

Other things to check:
Check the cartridge guides and make sure they are tight and do not move.
Check the loading gate screw for tightness, if the gate is loose it can affect feeding.
As you work the carrier up and down look at the carrier spring screw, it's on the inside of the left side just opposite of the loading gate. If that spring moves where the screw is, it can also affect feeding. If it's loose you'll need to pull the loading gate to get a straight shot at the screw.

Here is my tutorial on how to tell Pre-64s from Post-64s. xx pic down shows the three carriers used.
http://onesticky.levergunscommunity.com ... sters.html


Joe

[Borregos]

I had a very similar problem on a 94 in 30-30 that was manufactured in 1957.
A complete strip and clean resolved the problem