Help With 40-65 Winchester

[jmnardo]

I need some advice on a rifle I picked up. Its a Marlin 1895 in 40-65 Winchester. I picked up a box of ammo, but the bolt won't close all the way. I checked the length and they are about 1/4" over the length specificed in my reloading materials. I assumed this was the problem and since I did not have any 40-65 brass, I resized some 45-70 to 40-65 and trimmed to the specificed length. The bolt still would not compeletly close, but it did come very close.

I compared the resized 45-70 with the original 40-65. The base was the same, but the rest of the case was noticeably thicker above the base. So now I'm assuming my reloading dies did not fully resize the brass and the larger brass is what is keeping the bolt from closing. I did disassemble the rifle and everything looked to be in order. The bolt closes fine without a round chambered.

I can order some 40-65 brass, but before I did I was wondering if anybody had experience with this round in a levergun. Are they sensitive to maximum lengths? I'm assuming the longer rounds are for single shots. Has anyone had luck resizing 45-70 to 40-65? I assume it takes resizing dies to do so succesfully. Finally, anyone know a source for bullets?

Thanks, Mike

[Last Spike]

With the reformed brass, you may not be resizing all the way to the rim - your observations confirm this. Ken Waters mentioned this as an issue with his 1886 in 40-65 and found that using a Lyman X-17 shell holder worked. Or, you could file down a shell holder to allow you to resize more of the base.

As for the cartridge length, it could be the ammo was more for 1885 single shot and similar rifles as opposed to being in spec for 1886 which requires a definite maximum overall length.

The other option is to get Starline 40-65 brass which would address the issue.

[perry owens]

With my 1887 vintage Winchester 1886 Starline 40-65 brass chambers easily. When trying Winchester 45-70 brass resized to 40-65 I found that the bolt would not fully close on about 50% of them due to the rim thickness being too great. If that's the cause you can chuck them in a lathe or drill press and take a file to the top side of the rim to take it down a touch. If it's a sizing issue you can file down the shellholder as already advised, also some dies have a short taper to lead the case into the die which you can machine off.
Re bullets - I know nothing of Marlins but the old Winchesters were a bit relaxed about the 40-65 bore diameters. The nominal bullet size is 0.406 but my '86 requires 0.408 minimum. You can buy bullets from Buffalo Arms.
Perry Owens

[Sixgun]

The above boys have it right. I form my 40-65's from 45-70 brass for my 1886 and they will not chamber unless I do the following-------- When you are running the 45-70 into the 40-65 sizer, do it about 4-6 times, each time rotating the brass in the shell holder. It works for me.-------Sixgun

[Chuck 100 yd]

Your die set may be for the Ron Long version of the .40-65 .
The R. Long chamber is a chamber that has a neck on the cartridge as modern cases do and not the long straight taper of the origional Winchester chamber.
If you coat a case with magic marker and then chamber it can you tell where the case is binding in the chamber?

[Leverluver]

I'm now going to show what all I DON'T know about Marlins but is it not odd that a Marlin is chambered in 40-65 Winchester. Is this common? I thought Marlin had their own version of the basically the same cartridge, the 40-60 Marlin. In fact (again I believe that I read) that the 40-60 came first (in the 81) and the Winchester version was a johnny-come-lately.

[Bullard4075]

Sixgun has it right. The case just in FRONT of the rim (not the rim itself) needs to be sized down to solve the problem. The Lyman shellholder has a thinner lip allowing the case (if resizing 45-70 brass) to further enter the FL resizing die and size down this area. Sixgun's shellholder must be just thin enough to do this with 5 or six passes while I had to grind mine down a touch. This has to be done only once as this thick web part of the case does not - at least should not - expand back out with reasonable loads. Starline brass is thinner in this area hence no problem.

[Bullard4075]

"I'm now going to show what all I DON'T know about Marlins but is it not odd that a Marlin is chambered in 40-65 Winchester. Is this common? I thought Marlin had their own version of the basically the same cartridge, the 40-60 Marlin."

It was common for rifle makers to chamber for most any cartridge a buyer wanted. Sometimes the maker would tack their own name on an already proven cartridge. The 40-60 Marlin and the 40-65 Winchester -and the 40-75 Bullard for that matter- is the same round.

[JustaJeepGuy]

-and the 40-75 Bullard for that matter- is the same round.

You wouldn't be kidding about that, would you?

[Thunder50]

What about taking the decapping part out of the die and using a vise to size the case. You would have to knock it out with a rod, but you could run the case alot farther up into the die. Kind of like the old lyman sizing dies.

[Bullard4075]

"You wouldn't be kidding about that, would you?"

Nope .

[lozen]

Did you see this deal on ammo? http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5eb4t1 ... tyleID=926

[marlinman93]

I'm now going to show what all I DON'T know about Marlins but is it not odd that a Marlin is chambered in 40-65 Winchester. Is this common? I thought Marlin had their own version of the basically the same cartridge, the 40-60 Marlin. In fact (again I believe that I read) that the 40-60 came first (in the 81) and the Winchester version was a johnny-come-lately.

Marlin did start out with their own version the .40-60 Marlin, and chambered it for years in the 1881 Marlin, but when they brought out the 1895 Marlin they dropped their proprietary .40-60M and went with Win.'s more common .40-65 caliber.
I've bought a fair amount of the ammo from TOW and it's a great bargain! Buy a couple boxes, shoot it up, and you'll have great brass to reload with.
As for the .45-70 brass sizing down, I think it depends a lot on what dies you use. My Lyman dies form .45-70 down to .40-65 with zero problems. No messing with multiple tries, or special shellholders.-Vall

[marlinman93]

What about taking the decapping part out of the die and using a vise to size the case. You would have to knock it out with a rod, but you could run the case alot farther up into the die. Kind of like the old lyman sizing dies.

I've done this myself on certain calibers. I simply run the case through the dies to form, then situate the case on top of the shellholder and run it in again. They usually stick in the die, so I remove the die turn it upside down in my Rockchucker and with a adapter rod I made to fit the shellholder, I push the case back out of the die. Works well to get that last bit of forming down to the base, but it's slow going.
If you put a rod into a case and try to tap it out of the die it will often damage the case or end up with a stuck case. By pushing the case out gently with a rod in your press and the die upside down, it is less likely to damage or stick in the die.-Vall

[lozen]

What about taking the decapping part out of the die and using a vise to size the case. You would have to knock it out with a rod, but you could run the case alot farther up into the die. Kind of like the old lyman sizing dies.

I've done this myself on certain calibers. I simply run the case through the dies to form, then situate the case on top of the shellholder and run it in again. They usually stick in the die, so I remove the die turn it upside down in my Rockchucker and with a adapter rod I made to fit the shellholder, I push the case back out of the die. Works well to get that last bit of forming down to the base, but it's slow going.
If you put a rod into a case and try to tap it out of the die it will often damage the case or end up with a stuck case. By pushing the case out gently with a rod in your press and the die upside down, it is less likely to damage or stick in the die.-Vall

Vall, That's a great idea. I had the same problem with Marlin 1895's in 33 Winchester as Mikes having with his 45-60. I've got 3 Marlins in .33. I couldn't quite get the lever closed on any of them. I checked the ammo in 4 different Win 86's, and it worked fine in all of them.

[jmnardo]

So what did you do with your .33's? We're you able to find a way to get them to work?

Mike

[1886]

Just a point of info, the rim thickness on the Starline brass I have on hand averages .065". 1886.

[marlinman93]

So what did you do with your .33's? We're you able to find a way to get them to work?

Mike

I do the same thing with my .33WCF cases. I start with .45-70 run through my .40-65 dies, then into my .38-56 dies, and finally into the .33 Win dies. Most the time they work fine then, but if not I do the same thing as before. Run the case into the die by situating on top of the shellholder, then turn the die over and push it out with a rod sitting on the shellholder. They always work then.-Vall

[1886]

I need some advice on a rifle I picked up. Its a Marlin 1895 in 40-65 Winchester. I picked up a box of ammo, but the bolt won't close all the way. I checked the length and they are about 1/4" over the length specificed in my reloading materials. I assumed this was the problem and since I did not have any 40-65 brass, I resized some 45-70 to 40-65 and trimmed to the specificed length. The bolt still would not compeletly close, but it did come very close.

I compared the resized 45-70 with the original 40-65. The base was the same, but the rest of the case was noticeably thicker above the base. So now I'm assuming my reloading dies did not fully resize the brass and the larger brass is what is keeping the bolt from closing. I did disassemble the rifle and everything looked to be in order. The bolt closes fine without a round chambered.

I can order some 40-65 brass, but before I did I was wondering if anybody had experience with this round in a levergun. Are they sensitive to maximum lengths? I'm assuming the longer rounds are for single shots. Has anyone had luck resizing 45-70 to 40-65? I assume it takes resizing dies to do so succesfully. Finally, anyone know a source for bullets?

Thanks, Mike

Mike, I have some new/once fired Starline .40-65 cases on hand. I you need them, I could spare 20. Should be enough to get that new/old shooter making some noise. Regards, 1886.