45-75 testing

[coyote nose]

Still load developing for my Chaparral 1876. So far my main load utilizes a 80%linotype/20%lead alloy with a lyman mould. The problem is I am running out of linotype. Other alloys do not shoot as well (I have tested 8 alloys: pure lead, 20:1 lead/tin, wheelweight, and linotype alloys). As the lead content goes down, the bullet gets : lighter, bigger, harder. So, in an effort to find out which of the 3 variables is the main "accurizer" I tried the following: Using the wheelweight alloy I placed HVAC metal tape on either side of the mould (see photo below). This is an old bullet caster trick to get a larger dia bullet. W/O this it drops .458 out of the mould, with the tape I get a bullet .461 X .460. At the range I basically got the same size groups I got with the smaller bullet (3-5")(so far..limited # of groups). However this tends to rule out size as being the item.
My mould is a hollowpoint design, but I cast it plugged up so it is a solid. This time I tried shooting wheelweights using it as a hollowpoint, though still gets me the same size groups, (about 3-5") tending to rule out a lighter bullet as being the item.

I then cast wheelweights and dropped the bullets immediately into a container of water, keeping it away frm the lead pot for safety sake. This is supposed to harden up the alloy. This had an effect, shrinking group sizes somewhat. In fact, I shot my tightest group ever with this rifle with this alloy. Hope no one minds my bragging picture below...3 shots at 100 yards into 0.55" is something I am happy about! I am also pragmatic and realize it is no doubt a statistical fluke. The next group was still good though...2.6". Anything under 3" I am happy with. Need more testing with this to determine an actual group average, but I may be on to something here. Have lots of wheelweights and this is the alloy I would like to stick with.

[Hobie]

I wish I could shoot those open sights that well!

[Blaine]

That is an outstanding group......I can't even think of a joke to make about it......

[Modoc ED]

Good shooting. Wish I had a project rifle like that to work up a load for. I just may have to get one. Anyway, outstanding group and with iron sights no less.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

If you shot that off-hand with a '76, I'm going to go find another hobby because clearly I'm not worthy. Even from a bench, that is ridiculously good with open sights. I'd be lucky to do that with a scope. Well done.

[BlueStateSaint]

I couldn't print a group like that even if I dropped the bullets onto the paper, from directly above the target! That is an awesome group!

[coyote nose]

No, I dont have factory open sights on it, I put a tang sight on it last year. And it is a statistical fluke. Done from a bench...thru the spotting scope after shooting I wondered where the 3rd shot was...only when i walked up to the target did I see it nestled in there. And, if you shoot enough groups on paper this does eventually happen, just have to remember it is the left side of the bell shaped curve, the true average is higher. That is why I also do not throw away "flyer" shots in groups like some gun writers do...that is the right side of the bell shaped curve. Note the factory wood color...I refinished the wood with Winchester red in the other photo.

[3leggedturtle]

Thats awesome, how bout some specifics, What powder, what mold is it, and what is the MV. Where did you get yours cases at?

[Hobie]

I'd like to hear about your ammo packaging. Looks neat.

[coyote nose]

Mould is a Lyman 457122 Hollowpoint, but as can be seen in the photo I turned it into a solid. Casting is a chore I dread and the hp design makesit even more of a pain. Alloy was wheelweights, dropped out of the mould into a can of water to harden them. Also, the mould was held open by those 2 HVAC strips as seen in the photo. Powder was Pyrodex RS, with the black powder measure set at 65 grains. I have no idea what it wound up weighing....pyrodex is measured via volume. I call it in my notes 65 gns VE (Volume equivalent). On top of the powder is a .030" LDPE wad...the gun plain old wont shoot good w/o one. Probably wind up compressing the powder charge about 1/16-1/8" while bullet seating. Dies used are Lee. Cases are formed from 348 win brass. First I cut them w/ a dremel cut off wheel to slightly longer (about 0.100") than finished size, then open them up to .370" dia using a tapered expander plug I made. Next is annealing. Then fill up the case w/RS and seat a .375" roundball on top, fireform it, then trim to about 0.010" over finished size, expand to .457" with another tapered expander plug, anneal again, and load up with RS and a regular 45-75 bullet (I save cast rejects for this). Do final fireform. Size, trim, anneal and the case is done. Get maybe 20 firings from the cases (anneal necks after every 6 or 7 firings).
Packaging is done like this...I get 8 loaded rounds and determine the package size, then cut a wood block to that dimension. Then using various fonts on the computer type up what i want it to say on a large sheet of paper (8 1/2 X11). Designs can be drawn in or cut/pasted via computer. Then I scan the finished product and reduce it to fit the front of the package. By reducing it any errors I made drawing the designs are almost impossible to see. At kinkos I buy nice paper..ivory colored resume paper or green paper, etc. Using your print program simply print the design ont the paper. Then, make a cardboard pattern, trace it on the paper and cut out the package. Using the wood block, make sharp creases in the paper, glue it up, put in the cartridges, and glue it closed. In use simply rip open the paper and shoot em up! Since I drop my fired cases into a jar of water (both RS and 777 are waer soluble) I have no packaging to take home.
This photo shows the 45-75 stuff. Note the two tapered expanders (one from .340 to .375, the other from .400 to .458"), the wood forming block, the cardpaper pattern, and some papers I have ready for cartridge wrapping.

This next photo shows the stuff I have for the 45-70 trapdoor I shoot.

[coyote nose]

Forgot to add, velocity 15' from muzzle is around 1460 with my 80%lino/20% lead bullet. This weighs in at 335gns, wheelweights weigh in at 358gns but I have not chronod this yet...probably will be closer to 1400 fps.

[KCSO]

What does your bore slug out to? Also does it slug bigger tal the breech or the muzzle? Some of the Chapparral guns had quite large bores. Lino is ok for plinking but you will want a way softer bullet for hunting, yo may have to size at 460 or better.

[Hobie]

Mould is a Lyman 457122 Hollowpoint, but as can be seen in the photo I turned it into a solid. Casting is a chore I dread and the hp design makesit even more of a pain. Alloy was wheelweights, dropped out of the mould into a can of water to harden them. Also, the mould was held open by those 2 HVAC strips as seen in the photo. Powder was Pyrodex RS, with the black powder measure set at 65 grains. I have no idea what it wound up weighing....pyrodex is measured via volume. I call it in my notes 65 gns VE (Volume equivalent). On top of the powder is a .030" LDPE wad...the gun plain old wont shoot good w/o one. Probably wind up compressing the powder charge about 1/16-1/8" while bullet seating. Dies used are Lee. Cases are formed from 348 win brass. First I cut them w/ a dremel cut off wheel to slightly longer (about 0.100") than finished size, then open them up to .370" dia using a tapered expander plug I made. Next is annealing. Then fill up the case w/RS and seat a .375" roundball on top, fireform it, then trim to about 0.010" over finished size, expand to .457" with another tapered expander plug, anneal again, and load up with RS and a regular 45-75 bullet (I save cast rejects for this). Do final fireform. Size, trim, anneal and the case is done. Get maybe 20 firings from the cases (anneal necks after every 6 or 7 firings).
Packaging is done like this...I get 8 loaded rounds and determine the package size, then cut a wood block to that dimension. Then using various fonts on the computer type up what i want it to say on a large sheet of paper (8 1/2 X11). Designs can be drawn in or cut/pasted via computer. Then I scan the finished product and reduce it to fit the front of the package. By reducing it any errors I made drawing the designs are almost impossible to see. At kinkos I buy nice paper..ivory colored resume paper or green paper, etc. Using your print program simply print the design ont the paper. Then, make a cardboard pattern, trace it on the paper and cut out the package. Using the wood block, make sharp creases in the paper, glue it up, put in the cartridges, and glue it closed. In use simply rip open the paper and shoot em up! Since I drop my fired cases into a jar of water (both RS and 777 are waer soluble) I have no packaging to take home.
This photo shows the 45-75 stuff. Note the two tapered expanders (one from .340 to .375, the other from .400 to .458"), the wood forming block, the cardpaper pattern, and some papers I have ready for cartridge wrapping.

This next photo shows the stuff I have for the 45-70 trapdoor I shoot.

That is just too cool! Why did you pick eight instead of 10 (a magazine plus one in my carbine)? Those packs would fit in my ammo can so much more neatly. I'm gonna have to do that.

[coyote nose]

I got the 45-70 paper from a box I bought off of Dixie gunworks, it held 8. I wondered the same...why not 10 or 12. only when I tried making packaging that size did I see it just didnt look right. With 8 in a cartridge this size, the package comes out the size of a bar of soap..it just looks right.

[Coldfingers]

Just about the neatest thing I have see in a long, lonnnnggg time. Thank You.

[Tycer]

AWESOME!!!

If you're going to hunt the water quenched wheel weight hollowpoints, you will have to anneal the noses if you want any expansion. If you hunt them on deer, the meplat is large enough that expansion is not necessessary, they'll leave a 3/4" hole bored clean through.

Here's a pic of expanded air cooled WW, 100 yards, 1650 fps:

[coyote nose]

What does your bore slug out to? Also does it slug bigger tal the breech or the muzzle? Some of the Chapparral guns had quite large bores. Lino is ok for plinking but you will want a way softer bullet for hunting, yo may have to size at 460 or better.

My lands are 0.449", the grooves are 0.456". never checked breech versus muzzle diameter.

[RIHMFIRE]

Wow...Thats mighty good shoot'n
nice boxes too!