OT - M1 Carbine arrives! updated w/ range report

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, my carbine arrived today - packed really well in a Midway box - which has foam padding. And the fellow that sold this included a nice manual as well - a nice bonus.

I've already had it apart to clean and oil - BLO'd the stock to freshen it up. Its in very good shape - the bore is excellent. The muzzle had a few dings so I recut the inside of the crown to remove those - I find this never hurts accuracy and usually helps quite a bit if there's any wear.

Here are the pics:





Everything on the rifle appears to be saginaw sg - the mag release is marked "M" though - so maybe that isn't original?

There's an interesting cartouche on the stock as pictured - last time I saw "FAT" was on an Italian rifle - wonder if this spent some time in Italy? Anybody know about this marking?

I'm really pleased with it. I already got the 15 round mags for it too and some ammo as you can see - I think this will go to the range tomorrow for a test drive!

[mescalero1]

I have two, and they have rode the river with me foreever.
You will not find a more reliable companion.

[O.S.O.K.]

Oh I like it already and I haven't even shot it yet!

What ammo do you usually shoot? And have you ever checked expansion of the softpoints? Like Remington soft point 110's? Effect on game?

[mescalero1]

Yes, the Rem 110 soft point does real nice on game, and you will wonder what all the naysayers are talking about.
The other one one is 5.7MM Johnson it's still a horse, just a different kind.

[O.S.O.K.]

What kind of velocity - what bullet weight with the Johnson?

I was reading an article in Rifle by Mike Venturino about the M1 - he's got a nice Winchester and he made the comment about if they'd gone with a military version of the .351 Winchester instead of the 30 cal .32 Winchester that we would never have heard any comments about the round not being effective....

Oh - and I was just nosing around reading up on the M1 and handloads and I saw where the Remington soft points are the best performers in ballistic gellatin tests - beating Winchester and others.

What kind of game have you used you're 30 cal carbine on?

I've got a lot of questions don't I

[salvo]

That sure looks like allot of fun O.S.O.K. Never had the urge to own one until now
How do the new ones from Thompson/Auto-Ordnance compare to the ones with a little character?

[TedH]

Neat! I've always wanted one of those.

[mescalero1]

New Mexico mule deer with the .30
coyotes ( before I knew better ) badger, skunk, jackrabbits.
5.7 MM jackrabbits .30 & 5.7 MM both in unspeakable affairs.

[mescalero1]

Speer used to make a 110 grain hollow point.
2800 fps with 40 grain spires in the 5.7

[O.S.O.K.]

That sure looks like allot of fun O.S.O.K. Never had the urge to own one until now
How do the new ones from Thompson compare to the ones with a little character?

Compare in price? About the same really. As to accuracy and such - I have no idea but I'd figure the new made ones are probably more accurate on average.

I feel very fortunate to have snagged this one for $600 - almost all matching with a vg bore. Time will tell how it performs.

I figured that if I was going to get one that it'd need to be a WWII model and not a comercial version. I have a C&R license and this qualifies - shipped right to my door!

If anybody wants a good self defense type carbine that has lots of available ammo, mags and parts that is also a historic American war piece - this is the ticket.

[O.S.O.K.]

Speer used to make a 110 grain hollow point.
2800 fps with 40 grain spires in the 5.7

Thanks - 2800 fps with the 40 is pretty respectible! And I've read that those Speers don't feed reliably in a lot of the milsurp rifles...

[mescalero1]

No problem in mine, you are going to love loading for this thing; easier than falling off a rock.

[O.S.O.K.]

Yeah, they look kinda like skinny rimless 357 Magnums...

[mescalero1]

Long 9mm's

[junkbug]

FAT
79

Arsenal refurbished at Teni Arsenal 1979 (f stands for fabrica, or arms factory). Some of the recent CMP carbine are foreign aid gun being returned from Italy and Greece.

[rjohns94]

they are so very kewl and you have a nice one there!! they make excellent frog guns.

[O.S.O.K.]

FAT
79

Arsenal refurbished at Teni Arsenal 1979 (f stands for fabrica, or arms factory). Some of the recent CMP carbine are foreign aid gun being returned from Italy and Greece.

So, it is Italian - thought so. And this is a CMP rifle huh - sold for $75 less than current price and got the mag, sling/oiler..... the guy must have gotten this from an estate sale or maybe his dad.... he's a youngun.

[O.S.O.K.]

Interestingly, I graduated from HS in 1979...

Any other m1 owners out there with pics and information?

Salvo - there are a bunch for sale on gunbroker - of all kinds.

[Rusty]

If you do some searching you'll find that the favorite long arm of Ret. NYPD Det. Jim Cirello for the stakeouts he did was the .30 Carbine with SP bullets. He clained it was the best stopper he'd used.

As a note I also found while doing a search for the spelling of his name that Jim was killed in an auto accident in '07.

[mescalero1]

Wow, really?

[505stevec]

I took a mule deer at 85 yards with one shot using a soft point 110 grain winchester. They are great rifles and great fun to plink with. I had a red dot sight on mine for a while afterward. That was fun and really worked well. I took it off to get the original lines back. I heard from a guy who said that his grandfather carried one into combat and loved it. What he did is use it at the beginning of a battle and pick up a Garand from a dead guy. His thought was save on weight during all the marching and you can still carry it when using something else. Anyway I love mine.

[ceb]

I traded into one a few months back, had been looking for a original for years. Traded a Ruger SBH I had $325 in even up! Looks like yours, cept mines an Inland. Found several mags and some ammo from guys here. Great little rifle and it came with extreme doses of fun!!

As a side note, I was at the Cabelas store in Wheeling WV a while back. In their gun room they had 6 or 8 carbines in conditions rangeing from pretty rough to pretty nice. Prices started at 800 at went up to a 1000. I was pretty happy with my trade.

[Noah Zark]

OSOK:

Congrats on what appears to be a nice ex-Italian US M1 Carbine.

The FAT stamp does indeed signify the Carbine was once US aid to Italy, post-WWII. BTW, that stock was made in Italy, and is not a USGI stock stamped by the Italians.

The "M" on the mag release button means it's a later, improved version. Look closely, is there an underline beneath the "M"? If so, it's an M2 mag release, needed to retain 30 rd mags securely. Not unusual for a Carbine that's seen any kind of service to have an M or M-Underline mag release. All manufacturers that made mag releases were required to stamp the M or M-Underline on the improved and M2 mag releases to differentiate them from the originals, so that it could be determined at a glance that the gun had been upgrades.

Don't stock up on soft point ammo until you run some through the gun. Back in the early 70s I had all kinds of fits finding SP ammo and bullets that would feed properly. The soft exposed lead would catch on the chamber opening, barrel skirt, even the mag feed lip at the front. I finally found a Sierra 110 gr JSP that has a small exposed SP tip and had the profile of a 110 FMJ projectile. Those were 100% always-feeding performers, but IDK if that particular bullet is still made.

Noah

[BenT]

My father and mother in law have used M1's for 40 years hunting Wisconsin whitetail. I want to buy one but my father inlaw tells me don't because I'll get one soon enough. So I figure I'll have to wait until he's done deer hunting. He's 77 now and I think I'll be waitng for some time to get one of his. He has already given out most of his guns to his kids. He only keeps a 22 and his M1. Now my mother inlaw is a pistol and I think she'll be hunting alot longer than him.

So I'm jelous ! Plus my wife knows that I'll be getting them someday ,so I better not come home with one.

[O.S.O.K.]

Noah - thanks for the additional information - I wondered about the mag catch - its marked with a lonely M, so its an M2 - I guess I'll have to try a 30 rounder in it.

And its too late on not ordering a bunch of softpoints I have 500 Remingtons - but they have a very small "spot" on the nose that is exposed lead - and all accounts indicate that they feed well and are also the best performers of the standard softpoints. But I'm going to load some up quick before today's range trip and so time will tell! Thanks for the tip though

[O.S.O.K.]

So I'm jelous ! Plus my wife knows that I'll be getting them someday ,so I better not come home with one.

But Honey, you won't be ABLE to buy one soon - I just HAD to buy one - what if your Dad's gets stolen? How's that?

Or even better: Honey, I HAD to buy this - obama is going to outlaw them and the prices are starting to go up... and the way things are going (this is the good part here) I don't want your Dad to be without his!!! No way! I'm afraid that he'll feel pressured to give it to me when he still needs it.... This way, we don't have to worry

Pretty good huh?

[RSY]

They really are neat little rifles, but I must say my overall feeling about them as a combat arm is summed up by Venturino's friend's lawn-mowing dad in the "Handloader" story. You can't argue with experience like that.

Scott

[O.S.O.K.]

They really are neat little rifles, but I must say my overall feeling about them as a combat arm is summed up by Venturino's friend's lawn-mowing dad in the "Handloader" story. You can't argue with experience like that.

Scott

Yeah read that - scars front and back from a Jap Arisaka (caliber not specified). But that's with fmj bullets - which are kinda like our present 9mm fmjs - they just sail through with little trauma. Soft points are a whole nuther story.

[RSY]

Well, if things go downhill hard, you may well need those FMJs to defeat bad-guy body armor. I could be wrong, but I don't think a .30 Car. SP will go through a pistol-rated vest. Maybe the "Box o' Truth" guys have tested this. Have to check.

Scott

[alnitak]

Congratulations on a nice buy. I love mine! Really fun to shoot, and I figure the wife can use it if we ever need to stand together to deafeat a mob.

I love the history and finding parts for it at the shows (not that anything has broken). Great rifle to tinker with.

[O.S.O.K.]

OK, got to the range today and shot some Remington factory fmj's and some handloads (Remington soft points 110 grain, 14.5 gr. H110 in RP primed brass [guess they prime with standard small pistol primers?] - this is a factory duplication load)

Anyhoo, the rifle was already sighted in and all's I did was to tweek the windage a bit. It showed a decided preference for the handloads - here are some pics: ( number 6 target is Rem factory load and number 2 is my handloads - both at 75 yards)





Obviously not a tack driver! But it's definately minute of bad guy out to 200 yards at least.

Function was almost 100%. It had one failure to feed with the factory ammo - I just pulled the bolt back a little and the round popped up and then I let the bolt ride forward... It did fine - 100% with the soft points which makes me happy.

All and all a good day at the range. It was nice out - 80 degrees and of course the wind was blowing like crazy but mostly from my back, so not too bad - but it blows every unanchored item away...

[mescalero1]

told you you would like it.
It's a blast to shoot, is'nt it?

[Ben_Rumson]

Looks like you had a great time and got good results... Love my Carbine too.. Here's a link to the CMP page .. Good info on ammo and non modification tuning of the Carbine to get best accuracy.
http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/CM ... s_2007.pdf

[RSY]

Good deal. Looks like it still shoots MoCC (Minute of ChiCom).

Scott

[JReed]

Awesome report. I may have a line on one my self the owner and I are still coming to an agreement.

[O.S.O.K.]

mescalero - yeah, I like it! I did some rapid shooting at dirt clods from standing too - like a .22 on steroids.

Ben - thanks for that link - I just printed that out and will read that tonight.

And Scott, yeah, minute of chicom for sure These are what they are - they were meant as a replacement for the pistols primarily but also for the M1 Thompson, but it just doesn't have the punch of a 45 caliber 230 grain bullet. The goal was for it to be capable of puting rounds on target out to 300 yards, but I think 200 is more realistic.

It'd be a lot of fun to shoot steel gongs with this from various field positions.

JReed - that's great! Congrats - be sure and post pics and such when you get connected with it. I got my 15 round mags from http://www.keepshooting.com - $12 - tried three of them at the range and all worked perfectly.

[mescalero1]

Give him a little time, first time he's shot it

[JReed]

O.S.O.K. Will do I should meet up with him this week.

[RSY]

Hey, OSOK. Sorry if you mentioned it, but I didn't catch what manufacturer yours is from. We have an IBM in the family. Yours isn't one of the coveted Rock-Ola's, by chance, is it?

By the looks of target 2, it definitely has potential. What are those, 8" circles?

Scott

[O.S.O.K.]

Yeah, I think 8" best as I could tell.

This is a General Motors "Saginaw" SG model. It's been to Italy and been factory refurbished at some point in 1979 - got a new walnut stock at that point - or was marked - there are no US martial stampings that I can see, so must be an Italian stock. Has a Saginaw barrel so either thats original or they replaced with a matching barrel (doubtful). Everything is marked GS or S accept for the mag catch which is marked M - indicating M2 - probably switched out by the previous owner to allow for the use of 30 round mags.

And the Winchesters seem to be fetching the high dollars on gunbroker....

[Ben_Rumson]

Carbines could shoot through the US GI helmet @ 100yds. The 45acp out of the 10+lb Thompson couldn't do it..

[mescalero1]

Somewhere back at the start of this thread, I mentioned my friend Kieth ; who had a cast bullet load for his carbine that would put 5 of 5 through a 1950 steel Chevy truck rim . Saw him do it on multiple occasions.

[Ysabel Kid]

Very cool!

However, aren't you concerned you now picked up a "early model assault weapon". The Obamaniacs will be soooo disappointed in you.

[O.S.O.K.]

Very cool!

However, aren't you concerned you now picked up a "early model assault weapon". The Obamaniacs will be soooo disappointed in you.

Naw, it goes with my other early models, mid models and late and current models!

And Ben Rumson - I couldn't wait and went out to the shop this morning to properly seat the action in my carbine - as per the instructions on that link you provided (thanks again) - the action was pretty much sitting in the wood - which is not condusive to good accuracy according to the author. So, I followed the directions and got the barrel floating above the bottom wood 1/4" and finished assembly - just followed his directions. Apparently, this causes the barrel to have consistent, upward pressure against the front barrel band and reduce variation in vibration from shot to shot.

He also indicated that the bayo mount helps accuracy - as long as its the later model (which I think mine is).

Further, I checked my barrel's muzzle (used a factory 30-06 round as I don't have any military ball laying around) and it looks like it's got most of its life left. The bore is strong and shiney, so that doesn't surprise me. I don't know when my carbine was made as I don't see any dates on it, but I'm guessing late in the production cycle - 44 or 45.

I also saw that my recipe for my handload was within 1/2 grain of the one he listed - same powder (mine is H110 - he listed W296 - same stuff) I didn't know this was developed specifically for the 30 carbine... cool

So, the next time out, if I use better bench technique, and shoot my handoads, I should get much smaller groups.

He indicated that the current factory stuff is underloaded and not very consistent in velocity = not great accuracy.

[Ben_Rumson]

O.S.O.K. Glad to hear it.. Yeah I'm pretty sure your carbine has all of the upgrades..I think your stock is the beefed up M2 type made to better withstand full auto, so that's another plus in the accuracy column for you. If you go to the link below and post your s/n someone will tell you when your carbine was born.
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/carbine/carbine.pl?

[mescalero1]

O.S.A.K.
You are on the right track, once you get to know it better , it will do much better for you.

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks Ben - I'll do that. And heck, I'm happy with it's performance as-is, but of course, we need to strive for the best we can get

[Noah Zark]

. . . I don't know when my carbine was made as I don't see any dates on it, but I'm guessing late in the production cycle - 44 or 45.

There should be a manufacturer and date stamped on the top of the barrel just behind the front sight. This is NOT the manufacturing date of the Carbine, just the barrel. If there is no manufacturer name stamped there, the barrel is a foreign (Beretta or Breda) replacement.

E-mail me your gun's S/N and I'll date the receiver for you.

Noah

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks Noah - there's a saginaw - general motors stamp on the top of the barrel "saginaw sg div" over "gerneral motors" but no date that I can discern... I'll PM the serial to you.

[donw]

there is an m1 carbine on the shelf of a local big five sporting goods they're asking $999.00 for.

i trained and qualified with an m1 carbine (among other shoulder fired inf weapons of the u.s. army) as well as using one on the ground in the early VN years.

i've never understood why they've been so underrated. they're light, easy to handle, easy to disassemble and maintain, are normally, very accurate and unbelievably reliable.

IMO...ya did good