OT - semi-auto rifle

[brucew44guns]

Anyone here own and use a Springfield M1-A ? A new standard rifle in Walnut and .308 is going to cost about $1600.00 The Match Grade is over $2000.00 . Just wondered if there was interest by any of you guys in ever owning one of these, or do you own one now? I like a semi-auto for certain things that may present themselves later on, and if I ever needed one real bad, I want some horsepower. I like the heft and size of the battle rifles like this one, and the Garand, probably better than an AR or clone. But even occasional shooting could eat up lots of ammo and be expensive. Bans and such, as well as the times we are in, compels me to want something a little more awesome than lever guns RE: firepower.
An M1-A with a 20 round mag would be quite a piece to own I'm thinking. Anyone own one, or have opinions about it?

[O.S.O.K.]

I don't.

However, all that I've heard from owners of these is 100% positive. They are accurate, reliable, durable and of the highest quaility.

They are worth every penny.

I just have a hard time spending that kind of coin all at once on a rifle. I have no problem spending $400 - $800 though...

I have two rifles that are "tactically equivelent" to the M1A1 - a Saiga 308 that I converted to pistol grip configuration and that I have 20 round mags for and an FAL. But the Springfield is way cooler.

[Rusty]

I'm partial to the M1 vs. the M14 design. some say the M14 is the "improved" design, but I still like the M1 better.

[Meeteetse]

I would love to own one, especially the M1A Scout, but my desire and my money don't seem to ever get together. My son owns one and he loves it. It is reasonably accurate, not minute of angle, but close and reliable. The cost of ammo can be high if you don't reload, which I do not at the moment, but you don't have to burn up hundreds of rounds with the .308. Shoot to stay familiar and buy ammo cheap when you can.

I'm old enough that I was trained on the M-14 when I was in the service in the 60's and I always wanted one. Never really liked the AR-15/M-16 platform. There are cheaper semi-autos out there, like the Ruger Mini-14 (.223) that is a very well made gun. It may not be as accurate as some, but with Ruger magazines it is very reliable. If you want to stay with the semi-auto in .308, several of my LE friends are buying Remingtons. There is a .308 carbine that seems to be very popular and not so para-military as the M1A and a whole lot cheaper, and I think you can still buy the Browning BAR in .308, both of these have five round mags, but you can always buy more mags.

[BigSky56]

Bruce, I used a M14 in III corps had a selector on it & a pistol grip stock got it after the m16 failed me I threw that peice of junk away, for jungle and distance give me a 30 cal battle rifle. Up to 8 years ago I had a M1A as I did ADC work for stockgrowers assocs was great on yotos with LCA 173 gr match ammo. danny

[rjohns94]

i recently went from socum to AR-10 in .308 after ditching my AR-15 for the Socum. I like the extra ummmph the .308 has over the .223, and the AR is lighter than the Socum. The AR-10 is a bit heavier than the AR-15 but I am very pleased with this one. Its worth a consideration.

[Tycer]

Just my opinion, but if I'm at a distance where the .308 Win is needed for power, I'm most likely going to be able to find cover and a lever or bolt gun will be plenty fast. Up close, fast can be less powerful, like the .223 or 7.62x39. I hope I never need both in one day. Or either for that matter.

[marlinman93]

Them new fangled semiauto rifles and pistols will never catch on!

[JerryB]

You are right Rusty, if I think I need something besides a 94 30wcf I'll pull out my M1, I have a couple of cans of ammo from CMP in bandoliers. I went through basic with one in 1958, I reckon it'll still do the job.

[Ysabel Kid]

The Springfield M1A is absolutely top notch. One gets what he pays for. I made the mistake several years ago of trying to "go cheap" to get me a M1A and purchased a Chinese knock-off made by "Poly Technologies" called the M14S. This was one of the biggest hunks of junk I have ever seen and certainly the worst I ever owned. When the thing would fire three to five rounds in a row without jamming - which was seldom - it would group something like 10 inches - at 75 feet. Now, I may not be Billy Dixon, but I can shoot better than that - if the gun will.

Fortunately for me I took it in to a gun shop to trade in towards the real thing - a Springfield M1A standard rifle - and the shop gave me what I had paid for it (at a different place) towards the new gun (which was 3x the price and worth every penny).

If the poop hits the spinning blades after the election, I will be holding my Springfield and Y2K will be holding the AR-15. Yes, several levers would be in consideration for defending harth and home, but these would be the immediate "go-to" guns in that case.

Bruce - get an M1A - you will not regret it!

[Ravenman]

Love my Springfield M1A Bush with a Springfield Scout Comp and Zeiss 6x32 Duplex. Very accurate and a joy to handle.
Next best thing to a levergun.

[1886]

I had one years ago. It was stolen. It was a 100% great rifle. I am considering another but they are big bucks. Good luck with yours. 1886.

[2ndovc]

I had three down to just one SOCOM16. I sold my match rifle recently. Amazing rifle but rarely shot it. At almost 17 pounds it got darned heavy. I've turned out groups awful close to the ones above with the SOCOM and the Leupold.



jb

[kimwcook]

They're a quality piece of machinery and that's for sure and for certain.

[raven5]

Wow, I've been debating the semi-auto .308 thing for a year or two now. Every style and design has it's pluses and minuses. I've done enough research on the subject to fill a small woodshed.

Love wood so the Garand and M14 style just do it for me. Like the others however, plastic has it's place. Down side is that many or even most semi-auto designs (talking battle rifles that is) aren't always accurate, meaning MOA accurate. The operating rod and gas system does a number on the barrel when it moves back and forth (read as a whole lot of barrel flex). Now before someone wants to lynch me that doesn't mean they can't be made to be accurate, or you won't find one or even several that are accurate. It's just saying that you have a lot going against you from the start from a design perspective.

The bolt and lockup as well have to be made correctly with little room for error if you want reliability and accuracy.

The M14 is a great design all the way around and I'd love to have one, but price gets really up there quickly for a MOA model. Mags for them aren't cheap either. The iron sights on them are also awesome.

The FAL is a ultra reliable design and mags can be found for only a couple of bucks. Gas system can be adjusted for fouling, different ammo, or weather conditions, etc. Not the most accurate design. You can spend a bundle on them for this, but they still aren't going to be competition grade. You'll get the exception to the rule, but these were designed as battle rifles, not target rifles. Sights are generally poor unless you upgrade. Rear sight is actually mounted on lower receiver so receiver lockup is really important for fine accuracy (as fine as you'll get with an FAL).

The CETME design or HK91 which is the same doesn't use gas. It is a roller locked design. They look like they are gas but that is the charging handle on top. The rollers basically hold the bolt in place longer than straight blowback to handle the pressure. The chambers are fluted to facilitate easier extraction of the cases with this design, but it does a number on cases. Don't get this if you like to reload. These are also very sturdy and reliable rifles. Bit heavy though, but if you like M14 not an issue. Accuracy is better generally than FAL rifles. Mags are cheap and sights are not bad.

Next is the AR10 style. Many people make them now. The AR family is known for accuracy and properly setup they'll shoot with most bolts out there. The reason for their accuracy over the other .308 semi's is although they are gas operated, they don't employ a gas piston (some smaller companies make gas piston operated AR's but currently only one in the .308 class by POF; nice rifles but over $2000 starting). They use the direct impingement system. This allows a small tube over the barrel with no operating rod, which reduces the effect on the barrel harmonics, that vents the gas directly into the receiver onto the bolt. Still gas operated but different. Downside is that all that nasty gas and fouling is being dumped into the receiver, rather than vented outward. This makes them very dirty rifles in short order and also introduces a lot more heat onto the bolt. This is the source of all the complaints, not including the small 5.56 caliber, from troops in the Middle East currently. Also an issue during Vietnam because they were first marketed as having to hardly clean them, which couldn't be further from the truth, i.e. caused many jams and lost lives. If you clean them religiously and lubricate them frequently as well, they are fine. It's just a trade off: inherent accuracy with frequent maintenance, or lesser accuracy with less maintenance.

As far as the offerings, Rock River Arms has a .308 for around $1000 that is guaranteed to shoot MOA 1.5" and the design uses FAL mags, which is a plus. I'm thinking of one of these. DPMS offers superb accuracy but their own mags. Armalite has their own, as well as Knight and a few others. Remington has some now that are all camo'ed out. These are made by DPMS. The parent company, Cerberus I believe, owns Remington, DPMS, Bushmaster, etc. so similar rifles.

If not going into battle, the AR's are great. Fine accuracy and options galore.

If money were no object though, I'd prefer a M14. Still thinking about a Garand though....

[jeepnik]

I've got a Scout model. A bit longer than the SOCOM, and not all "tacticaled" (I just made up a new word) up with rails and such. But with the 18" barrel, it still carries and handle better for me that the original M14 ever did. They now have three stocks, walnut, black and mossy camo fiberglass. As far as accuracy, it will out shoot most of us.

[smilinbob]

Remington makes a great semi -auto . I have several 7400 and 650 models.With a 10 round magazine its a cheaper alternative.

[Idahoser]

I'd have one if I won the lottery. Otherwise I can find too many good rifles for half the price. And I can also find and afford ammo for them.
As long as I can get Garands from the CMP, and Pyrkal, I'll never be able to justify an M1A. Now if they released M14's, that would be a different story, wouldn't it?

[O.S.O.K.]

If they'd released m-14's (in SA config) they'd likely price them higher than the Springfields. The CMP is no bargain these days.

I just bought a Saginaw M1 Carbine for $75 less on gunbroker than they're listed for on the CMP and its coming with a milsurp sling/oiler and 15 round Sag magazine.... when you can beat their pricing on gunbroker, you know its no bargain!

[stew71]

I love my M1A. I purchased the Loaded Standard model about 5 years ago. I used it primarily in the local CMP matches. Accurate as heck and a lot of fun to shoot. It prefers the Federal American Eagle FMJ, the Aussie NATO surplus, and is deadly with the Federal Gold Match. One day I'll start handloading for it.

I'm considering sticking some decent optics and a bipod on it to try my hand at the local tactical matches.

[brucew44guns]

I appreciate the positive replies on the M1-A. I can afford one, and I all ready have several Garands. I am not struggling to justify buying one, I suppose most of my guns could never be justified, I just wanted them, but appreciate your positive feedback on the rifle itself. . Thanks to all of you, and particularly to Ravenman on posting those great pics. Bruce

[O.S.O.K.]

We await the pics and range report

[Ysabel Kid]

We await the pics and range report

+1

The Garand is certainly a great gun. I love mine and my son has one though he is not big enough to shoot it yet. Patton called it "the finest battle rifle ever made" or something along those lines. Then again, Patton died before the M14 was introduced, and I am sure he would have recognized that the M1A is simply a Garand with all the updates new technologies brought forth. From a battle rifle prespective, the two don't compare - they are a generation apart.

If one has the money, the only issue then becomes, "which one?". So many good choices...

[jeepnik]

We await the pics and range report

+1

The Garand is certainly a great gun. I love mine and my son has one though he is not big enough to shoot it yet. Patton called it "the finest battle rifle ever made" or something along those lines. Then again, Patton died before the M14 was introduced, and I am sure he would have recognized that the M1A is simply a Garand with all the updates new technologies brought forth. From a battle rifle prespective, the two don't compare - they are a generation apart.

If one has the money, the only issue then becomes, "which one?". So many good choices...

Had Patton be alive when the M16 came about, he may well have shot somebody.

[Ysabel Kid]

We await the pics and range report

+1

The Garand is certainly a great gun. I love mine and my son has one though he is not big enough to shoot it yet. Patton called it "the finest battle rifle ever made" or something along those lines. Then again, Patton died before the M14 was introduced, and I am sure he would have recognized that the M1A is simply a Garand with all the updates new technologies brought forth. From a battle rifle prespective, the two don't compare - they are a generation apart.

If one has the money, the only issue then becomes, "which one?". So many good choices...

Had Patton be alive when the M16 came about, he may well have shot somebody.

No doubt! I can hear it now. "You issued a plastic BB-gun to real soldiers? What kind of brain-dead bureaucrat does that?!? How are our brave boys going to grab the enemy by the nose and kick them in the *** with this peice of pelosi?!?".

[Idahoser]

The Garand is certainly a great gun. I love mine and my son has one though he is not big enough to shoot it yet. Patton called it "the finest battle rifle ever made" or something along those lines. Then again, Patton died before the M14 was introduced, and I am sure he would have recognized that the M1A is simply a Garand with all the updates new technologies brought forth. From a battle rifle prespective, the two don't compare - they are a generation apart...

I don't know about that... I was going through this agony myself a couple years ago and there were folks (right here, if I'm not mistaken) that made a good case for the Garand being SUPERIOR to the M14. At the very least it takes no back seat. And when I can get two of them and a case of ammo for the price of a fictitious* post-ban** copy of the successor, I'm not confused about where the best deal is.

ETA
* = not used by military to kill Nazis as the Garand MAY have been
** = You know that Clinton "agreement" we give S&W such a hard time over? Well Springfield the company (as opposed to the US Military's Springfield Armory, which no longer exists) had one too.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to have one. But if I had the money I'd get two Garands instead.

[Ysabel Kid]

The Garand is certainly a great gun. I love mine and my son has one though he is not big enough to shoot it yet. Patton called it "the finest battle rifle ever made" or something along those lines. Then again, Patton died before the M14 was introduced, and I am sure he would have recognized that the M1A is simply a Garand with all the updates new technologies brought forth. From a battle rifle prespective, the two don't compare - they are a generation apart...

I don't know about that... I was going through this agony myself a couple years ago and there were folks (right here, if I'm not mistaken) that made a good case for the Garand being SUPERIOR to the M14. At the very least it takes no back seat. And when I can get two of them and a case of ammo for the price of a fictitious* post-ban** copy of the successor, I'm not confused about where the best deal is.

ETA
* = not used by military to kill Nazis as the Garand MAY have been
** = You know that Clinton "agreement" we give S&W such a hard time over? Well Springfield the company (as opposed to the US Military's Springfield Armory, which no longer exists) had one too.

Again, I am not saying a cross word about the Garand. Mine WAS used to kill Nazis! My son's was used to kill Commies! Rather, if one has the funds, the M1A is basically an updated Garand. The primary difference is the round (the 7.62 x 51mm Nato in the M1A versus the .30-06 Springfield in the Garand), which are ballistically similar, and the feeding mechanism (a detachable box magazine for the M1A versus an en-bloc clip for the Garand). Purists can find a slew of other differences as well. The models made/assembled by Springfield today are now for their high quality and scary accuracy. This gives it a nudge for a current use "battle" (or home defense) rifle over 50+ year old Garands.

[Jarhead]

I have one and love it. I trained and used one in the Corps. I have an "Improved" Springfield with some 20 round clips and a Springfield 6X Govt. scope. She can reach out and touch....and do it well

[salvo]

I have two .308 black rifles, one is an original H&K 91 the other is a DSA SA58 FAL. I really like both of these rifles and bought them years ago when my tastes were more for black furniture. If I was going to buy a .308 auto today it would probably be a Springfield M1A, not sure though I have nothing but praise for the FAL & H&K 91.

[JohndeFresno]

Anyone here own and use a Springfield M1-A ? A new standard rifle in Walnut and .308 is going to cost about $1600.00 The Match Grade is over $2000.00 .

You can have a wonderful shooting rifle, a tad more powerful than the .308, for less than half of the above listed prices. And its brass is abundant. And the bullet is the same caliber (but it is housed in a slightly longer case). It's the M1 Garand, the granddaddy of the M1-A. There's nothing wrong with granddaddies. In fact, they are really cool. I are one.

CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) will sell you one if you are a U.S. Citizen, have no felony problems in your background, and belong to some NRA sponsored shooting club. They ran out of reasonably priced "complete" Garands, but still have some pricey ones or a new composite rifle for sale. The composite rifles have all matching parts, but are stocked with a new beautiful walnut gunstock (which is also sold as a component by CMP for existing Garands).

The site is:
http://www.thecmp.org/

The specific sale item that I am talking about is found at:
http://www.thecmp.org/m1garand.htm
Scroll down to Item Nr - RM1HRASSP
For $750.00, you can get this beauty (while supplies last) -

M1 Garand, HRA Special (Please allow 30-60 days for delivery)
HRA correct* metal in excellent almost new condition. Walnut stocks and handguards.
Stocks, handguards and associated metal hardware are NEW manufacture, NOT original HRA manufacture

* Scroll down to see what "correct" is - it means matching parts, very good bore

Not only will you have something to punch holes in paper or serve admirably as an extremely rugged, fast firing and hard hitting long range survival piece; you will be owning a bit of history. There are dozens of sources on the Internet that will supply the year of manufacture, and frequently the usage, of any M1 Garand.

I have an old Greek issue M1, through CMP, and it is truly a prized possession. It is no longer available - they are all gone, now. It was loaned to the Greek Army under a NATO agreement by our government. It was rarely fired (come on, this is the Greek Army!) but the soldier who used it did a pretty good job of putting dings in the stock - it has "character." You can see several rows of dimples where the genius in uniform tapped bullet points in the en-block clip on the butt end of the right side of the stock to align the bullets, instead of using his helmet. Of course, that's what happens when folks get something for free (Remember that on this election day!!).