Max Powder Load 1851 Navy

[Tennessee Hayre]

I Loaded my .44 cal 1851 Navy Colt up with 25 grains of powder and fired it at the range the other day and it did not seem to be much of a load for a .44 cal. What is the max load for this revolver with out blowing my self up.

[AmBraCol]

I Loaded my .44 cal 1851 Navy Colt up with 25 grains of powder and fired it at the range the other day and it did not seem to be much of a load for a .44 cal. What is the max load for this revolver with out blowing my self up.

Assuming a quality sixgun in excellent condition, as much FFFg powder as you can cram under a roundball will be fine. I've never been much of one for downloading a black powder sixgun. Usual procedure is to dump a chamberful of powder, press a round ball on top, lever it down 'til level with the chamber mouth. If you're using an under powder wad then you'll need to adjust as necessary to allow compression space. After growing up around Brazilian muzzle loaders I find US concerns over black powder firearms amusing. After you've seen folks using a piece of curtain rod with mild steel wire wrapped around the chamber area for a muzzle loader, the heavy steel firearms available in the US seem to be pretty nigh indestructible. I know a guy who used to use smokeless similar in burning rate to Bullseye in his Ruger Old Army (DON'T try this with the Italian repros or with original firearms - it's a Ruger Old Army, only for nuts load) Anyway, using FFFg in a modern steel sixgun there's no way you're going to get enough in that chamber to damage the gun.

[Old Time Hunter]

The most I can get in mine is about 32-33 grains of FFFg when I use a wad and a 200 grain conical. Still have to mash it down pretty good to clear forcing cone. Shoots pretty good too!

[AmBraCol]

The most I can get in mine is about 32-33 grains of FFFg when I use a wad and a 200 grain conical. Still have to mash it down pretty good to clear forcing cone. Shoots pretty good too!

How's accuracy with that load? Especially compared to round ball loads? I've done little BP shooting with conicals. Had fun with some double ball loads a while back.

[O.S.O.K.]

If this is a steel framed 1851, then yes, as much FFFG or equivalent as you can get under the ball/conical is fine. But you'll get better accuracy staying around 25 to 30 grains.

[Ysabel Kid]

If this is a steel framed 1851, then yes, as much FFFG or equivalent as you can get under the ball/conical is fine. But you'll get better accuracy staying around 25 to 30 grains.

+ a VERY BIG 1

Remember, "hot" loads in a brass-framed C&B are a "no-no" - if you value the gun and your hands!

[AmBraCol]

If this is a steel framed 1851, then yes, as much FFFG or equivalent as you can get under the ball/conical is fine. But you'll get better accuracy staying around 25 to 30 grains.

DUH! (smack self on head) I didn't recall the brass framed guns are all over the place. All I want is steel. Lower loads may be more accurate, but hotter loads give you more bang for the buck.

[Tennessee Hayre]

I guess I bought the wrong one , Mine has a brass frame. I am taking it into the woods on the 1st of Nov. Going to try my luck at taking a deer with it. I got a laugh when I first took it out to the range and loaded it with 15 grain of powder. When I pulled the trigger it was like a mouse passing gas. So I loaded it up to 25 grains that was much better. So I guess 30 grains would be OK then???. (with the brass frame). I have my eye on a nice 1860 army. Ivory grips and nickle frame. .44 cal. I know their are other stronger built revolver out their but I buy these just for range shooting and to just have fun.

[jd45]

I must protest that an 1851 Navy would be chambered in .44! Just ask J. B. (aka Wild Bill) Hickock! Come to think of it, he may have wished for a .44 caliber 1851 Navy! jd45

[Tennessee Hayre]

I have to admit, Old Wild Bill, is the reason I purchased my first revolver. I love reading all the history sites on him. I have spent hours searching the web looking for new reads. Great stuff. I also believe black powder guns could be addictive.

[Griff]

I try not to load even my steel framed '51s very heavy. In my .36 caliber Colts I've experienced a bit of frame stretch with loads as low as 27grains, never higher. And I agree, a '51 in .44 is just plain sacreligious. I generally load my .36s @ 17 grains of 3F and my .44 1858 with 21 or 27 grains of 3F.

[Andrew]

TH, did you buy the gun used or new? If new, then it might say in your owners manual what kind of loads are appropriate. You didn't say whether or not you have read a manual, so I thought I would throw that out there.

That 15gr load may not have compressed enough. I don't have experience with the '51 but my ROA had that problem at low charges; the ram doesn't travel far enough down.

My gun takes what ever you can put in and get the ball to seat, which for me is right at 50gr of FFFg.

[Tennessee Hayre]

Yes, I bought it new, and is in very good condition. You know now that I think about it, when I loaded it with the 15 grains I had to put a cleaning patch in the chambers to take up space so I could push the ball hard to the powder. I then took the patch out and put lard in to seal so I did not get any chain fires.But now I have learned my lesson. I now know to put enough powder in so that don't happen again. On the companies web site it says 25-30 grains of powder for the .44 cal is recommended. They also say that most folks use 25 grain.

[Andrew]

My ruger manual recommends putting cornmeal in as a filler if you drop the charge too low. I just keep it at 30gr and go on with life. The manual recommends a charge of 25gr as well.

Try out what you've leaned and let us know how it works out for ya.

[Ysabel Kid]

Please note though there is a WORLD of difference in the strengths of the Ruger "Old Army" design compared to the 1851 Colt "Navy" design. In short, the Ruger can take almost anything you dish out at it; the open-top Colt design, even in a steel frame, simply can not. In a brass frame it would be fool-hearty to try!

[jimkim]

I used to load FFFg but now I'm lazy. I just use the 30gr Pyrodex 44 cal pistol pellets. That and my son used up all my powder making firecrackers. All fourteen pounds of it. I love my boy. I love my boy. I love my boy. I have to say that constantly now.

[Doc Hudson]

IMO, you ought to stick with that load and not push things.

The Model of 1851 was not designed to use .44 caliber ammo. It was designed from the ground up as a .36 caliber.

The .44 Navy's are the invention of the modern blackpowder industry.

Take not of the frame and cylinder.

The cylinder is rebated, and there is a step cut into the frame to accommodate the the larger diameter needed for the .44 caliber chambers.

According to the Reference Section of the Dixie Gun Works Catalog, the standard service load for a Model 1851 .36 Caliber Navy Revolver was 22 grains of FFFg. Dixie also recommends loads ranging from 15 to 18 grains FFFg for their modern reproductions.

For their .44 Navy Revolver, Dixie recommends a 22 grain FFFg load.

Using a heavier load will accelerate wear and tear on your revolver. If you want to shoot a heavier load, get a heavier revolver, such as a Walker or Dragoon Model. If you want to shoot really heavy load go with a Ruger Old Army or a modern cartridge sixgun.

FWIW, Dixie states that the military service load for the .1860 Army and Remington New Army Revolvers was 28 grains FFFg, and the service load for the Dragoon Models was 40 grains of FFFg. The recommended load for modern made m-1860 Armys, Dragoons and New Armys is 22 grains of FFFg and for the Walker Colt they recommend 25 grains (which I consider to be silly).

[Andrew]

I used to load FFFg but now I'm lazy. I just use the 30gr Pyrodex 44 cal pistol pellets. That and my son used up all my powder making firecrackers. All fourteen pounds of it. I love my boy. I love my boy. I love my boy. I have to say that constantly now.

Welcome jimkim! It's not lazy, just not as cool as pouring.

[Old Time Hunter]

The most I can get in mine is about 32-33 grains of FFFg when I use a wad and a 200 grain conical. Still have to mash it down pretty good to clear forcing cone. Shoots pretty good too!

How's accuracy with that load? Especially compared to round ball loads? I've done little BP shooting with conicals. Had fun with some double ball loads a while back.

Absolutely spot on! compared to the ball loads. Yes, mine is a steel frame, and haven't seen an issue with frame stretch yet. Remember that they make .45 Long Colt conversion cylinders for them, if they were not strong enough for that, there would be plenty of people out there complaining. With 32-33 grains, wad, 200 grain conical (Lee, pure lead from x-ray protection sheets), that little '51 replica spits out the projectile at almost 700 fps. I load 45 grains in my original Walker, same pill, it comes out of there at over 800 fps. The improvement in accuracy is uncanny, were I used to knock cans over with inconsistancy at 15 yards, I now challenge myself at 50 yards with consistancy!

[O.S.O.K.]

Deer hunting.

I would suggest that the 1851 brass framed model is the wrong choice for this endeaver. Its a fine revolver for fun shooting or even self defense in a pinch with mild to medium loads - which will not stretch the frame. To hunt [deer] with it, you'd need to use maximum loads and practice - which would ruin your revolver in time - how much time depends on the loads and the metalurgy of your particular piece.

If you want to hunt deer with a cap and ball then I'd go with a steel framed 1858 Remington target model. I have one of these and its a very strong action. You can load 200 grain conicals (I cast mine with a Lee mould) w/o removing the cylinder and it can push that conical 1000+ fps with a max charge of Pyrodex - safely. And that's a decent deer load - 50 yards. Think 45 ACP with 230 grain bullets -that's about it. The sights on this model are adjustable and give a decent sight picture - though a little metal off of the sides of the rear sight wouldn't hurt - especially for hunting. This allows you to first find the best load - velocity and accuracy wise and then adjust the sights to that load.

Keep the nice brass framed 1851 for target/range shooting and getcha an 1851 target for hunting.

Or, if you want to spend some more - get a Ruger Old Army - a modernized and even stronger version of the 58.

Mine is a Pieta and is of very good quality. I'd go Pieta or Uberti.

The other nice thing about the 1858 is that they work really well with the 45 Colt cartridge conversion cylinders if you fancy that in the future. The cylinder is easily removed by dropping the loading lever and pulling the cylinder pin out towards the muzzle - with the hammer pulled back to retract the hand, the cylinder just drops out - with practice, this can be done rather quickly.




The 1860 Army was mentioned - I also have one of those and it's a sweet shooting revolver and points like the 1851 (I've got one of those too - Uberti in original .36 caliber). It would also be fine for deer hunting but you are going to find a challenge getting a good load that shoots to point of aim - and the sights are for point shooting, not so much precision shooting at 50 yards.

[Tennessee Hayre]

Thanks for all the expert advice guys. I will probley get me a better one for deer hunting next year, but this year I will give the one I have a try. Rifle season starts as you all know in 20 some odd days and I will be using my rifles for the rest of the season.. I just needed a reason to get into the woods for black powder hunting this time around and since I had this 1851 Navy and had never fired it, I could not think of a better time to give it a try. We have deer all over the place here in Tennessee and will most likely get the chance to take a 30 or 40 yard shot. I have all the other years that I have been hunting. Lots of small Doe's. This will put some excitment into the hunt.

[Doc Hudson]

Be sure to check the Fish & Wildlife regs before you hunt with that .44 Navy. Some states, such as Mississippi, do not permit the use of blackpowder handguns for hunting.

Good Luck!

[Tennessee Hayre]

Ya, some states are like that, Here in tennessee under legal equipment for hunting it says that for muzzeloading (rifles, handguns and shotguns) are legal. As long as their loaded with blackpowder of course. The firearms must be at least a .40 cal or better, and since I have a .44 i guess I'm good.

[gamekeeper]

If this is a steel framed 1851, then yes, as much FFFG or equivalent as you can get under the ball/conical is fine. But you'll get better accuracy staying around 25 to 30 grains.

This is what I found too.
Both my Navy's were .36. Too light a load and the balls bounced back from the wooden target board.
The only cap n ball revolver that blew up at the range I used, was a replica Walker, I don't know what he stuffed down the cylinder but it blew up like the originals sometimes did.

[Tennessee Hayre]

I have heard of that happening before, and that is why I will never buy one. If it can happen it will happen to me, Thats my luck.