Made some meat yesterday

[deerwhacker444]

Luckily, I made some meat yesterday. My dad and I were drawn for a state hunt at McGee Creek WMA for a muzzleloader hunt. It's a beautiful area in SE Oklahoma. Plenty of rolling hills covered with a mixture of pine and hardwoods. Some of the tree cover is older growth and they burn it every once in a while so the forest floor is free of underbrush and you can see a long way into the woods. After daybreak, I was quietly working my way down a fenceline scouring the woods for movement. About 8:30, I noticed some movement about 150 yards thru the trees. It turned out to be a nice buck working the edge of the timber. I didn't have a shot, but it was clear which way he was headed. So as quickly and as quietly as I could, I snuck down the fenceline in an attempt to head him off. I reached the spot I was looking for and only had to wait for a couple of minutes before he came ambling along. Turns out he was working a scape line that I didn't know was there. As he was sneaking along, I found a window to shoot thru and at about 40 yards my TC Omega let him have it. At the report, he took off like a scalded dog. I wasn't sure I'd made a good shot until he clobbered the barbed wire fence. Somehow he managed to clear it after nailing it proper and went about another 50 yards before giving it up. Here's a pic. It's not the greatest because of the lighting, but it will have to do.



When I went to drag him back over the fence I saw where I had hit him. Perfect behind the shoulder shot, took out both lungs and was a total pass thru. I was amazed that he went as far as he did with that kind of wound. The entrance hole was big enough to stick your thumb in and the exit was about the same. However, there was a total lack of blood to follow between where I shot him and where he ended up.

So that's my question for you guys, am I not getting any bullet expansion? This is the second deer I've shot with this bullet combination and the results have been the same. Completely dead deer with little to zero blood trail. I'm shooting a 300 gr. Hornady .45 caliber XTP-MAG bullet out of a sabot behind 120gr. of Triple Seven for probably 1700-1800 fps. (Isn't that moderate 45-70 numbers?) I settled on this bullet because it was the only thing that I could find that would group well out of my rifle. I'm wondering if the 300 gr. bullet is a little heavy for deer. Would I be better served if I tried out a .45 240gr or 250gr projectile. I can't complain, they've done their job, but I would have liked a little more blood trail.

After the shot, the work began. I didn't really realize at the time, but my leisurely hunting stroll that morning was all down hill. When it was all said and done, I was around .84 miles from the truck. The marker on the left is where I shot the deer and the marker on the right is where the truck is.



For those of you who don't read topo maps, it felt like climbing the Matterhorn. I had a 2 wheeled cart, but the rocky conditions made dragging the cart and exercise in frustration. It took me and my dad the better part of 3 hours to drag that sucker back to the truck. I can't remember the last time I worked that hard. I need to get in better shape, I'm way too fat for much more of this.....

Anyway, when we got the deer back to the ranger station, a biologist determined it was a 2.5 year old deer judging by the teeth. It weighed 126 lbs. A nice representation of an average Oklahoma buck.

Next time, I'll try to get em running for the truck before I shoot.

[Old Savage]

Very nice and good pics - that is quite a climb.

[O.S.O.K.]

Congrats! That's pretty typical of a heart/lung shot on an alert buck. Nothing wrong there at all - through and through and you've got him - nothing wrong with that.

I'd be shocked if you weren't getting expansion with the XTP - but its a controlled expansion bullet and isn't going to open enough to blow a much larger hole out the exit. No worries. In fact, I use the same sabot/bullet in my TC Omega but with only 70 grains of Triple 7 and have perfect confidence in it.

Nice pic!

[Borregos]

Congratulations, nice buck

[gunslinger598]

Nice buck.

I live about 20 miles from MaGee Creek. 12 miles south of Antlers.

It would be nice if they all fell by the truck, next to the freezer would be better.

I'd be out of shape my own self. Lucky you had some help there.

Congrats!

[Comal Forge]

I shot a buck last year using my Marlin .45-70 with a 300 gr Hornady at about 1800 fps. The hit was broadside and high but went between the ribs on both sides without hitting bone. The slug went in one side and zipped out the other with no expansion. The year before that, I shot a doe thru the neck but missed the vertebrae - same result, no expansion and a clean hole through both sides. The buck went about 25 yds and lay down; I had to finish him with a second shot to the neck. The doe ran about 40 yds before I shot her again, this time breaking the spine.

Conversely, I shot a hog a few years ago broadside at about 125 yds with the same load and the bullet mushroomed perfectly then stopped under the hide on the far side. He did not take even one step but laid right over on his side and was quite dead by the time I got to him. So to answer your question, I do believe most factory bullets are too heavily constructed to expand reliably on deer unless you hit a bone or catch more body mass, like a lengthwise shot.

I only fire traditional round balls from my muzzleloaders but I'd probably try a pistol bullet if I were shooting sabots.

[Nath]

Well done and thanks for the great report.
A soft lead patched ball is what you really want, go on admit it

You hit it just rite friend, another similar shot next time and there could be gallons of blood.
Is he fat? If so that'll plug the holes sometimes, don't worry about it.

Perhaps an XTP is to tough for a broadside on deer!

Anyway you still better than me this season

Nath.

[CEMENTHEAD]

Congrats on the fine deer. Your probably doin' a little closer to 1900-1950 fps with that combo. As far as that bullet, I went through the same questions with that one. I found after 5 deer with that bullet, at those same approx speeds out of a muzzleloader, it's a penetrator not a real expander. I've recovered one of those bullets and it expands to about .48-.55". If you get the velocity up to about 21-2300 fps then the things like to expand, almost too much. I 'll suggest you stay with 300 grains, but try they're SST version of them instead. They usually tend to group better and expand to about .60-.75" if you can recover them. If you want more "splash" type expansion go with the 250 gr SST @ about 1850-2000fps and still get decent penetration.

Here's one I recovered from a 145lb dressed buck, "Texas heart shot", not intentional trust me. Hit the buck about 1" left of the brown eye. I found the bullet under the skin in the throat! (about 37" of penetration)



Just my .02$. Thanks for listening, Tom

[JerryB]

I reckon that I'll agrgee with Nath on this one. I have nothing against progress but I do know that a .451 patched round ball over 90 grains of fffg will flatten out to 3/4 of an inch. It will blow a very large hole in both sides of the rib cage blow the lungs to liquid and tear the left shoulder open and rest on the off side against the skin. I have seen this on the last three deer killed with my rifle, they don't run more than twenty five yards and leave a good amount of blood spray. The one Monday morning might have made twenty seven yards. Being 70 years old I reckon I am just old fashioned.

[TedH]

Congrats on a nice buck.

If you want penetration and more expansion look no farther than the Barnes muzzle loader bullets, if they will shoot well in your rifle. The only way I describe them is awesome. I've killed a couple deer with them, with perfect broadside shots like you had. The deer did run a little ways with the lung shots, but a blind man could have followed the blood trails. I'll see if I have a picture of one that I dug out of the ground after penetrating the deer. Expanded just like the pictures you see in the magazines and turned the insides of both deer to mush.

EDIT, found the picture

[swshooter]

High lung shots often don't bleed alot, by the time the blood in the lungs reaches the holes the deer is about bled out and drops. Low lung shots leave a better trail. If you don't want them to run, shoot through both shoulders, that 300 gr XTP probably won't ruin alot of meat. Spine and brain shots are DRT's but are very hard to make and a miss is often non-lethal. The heart, lung, liver shot to the lower 1/2 of the chest seems to be the most forgiving and usually lethal even if somewhat misplaced. Deer can really run sometimes no matter how or what you hit them with. Practice with your rifle until you can work the action without taking the rifle off your shoulder, and racking in that next round is automatic. Keep him in your sights after you shoot and if he makes any attempt to get up shoot him again. Its your duty to put an animal down once you've wounded him, don't worry about how much meat you might ruin until he's at the processor. Like Elmer always said" I like to do all my huntin' before I do my shootin'".

[Ysabel Kid]

Excellent! Sounds like you certainly earned it - congratulations!!!

[AndyM]

great post and pictures - I shoot the T/C shockwave or the Hornady red tip out of my Omega. These seem to just flatten them, when you connect.

[dr walker]

Nice deer, that is some drag when you go up hill.

[cnjarvis]

Congrats Andrew!!

[Nath]

That there Barns is a interesting looking nuggart but ,,,,, when your wallet is siezed shut and you've some soft lead lying around,,,,,,,,

Nath.

[95fan]

Congrats on a sucessfull hunt.

[Jarhead]

Nice Buck...should be good eating