35 Winchester to Ackley Improved?

[moodyholler]

A friend of mine wants to barrel his Krag rifle to 35 Winchester Ackley Improved. There is no official version of this that I can find. A factory round cycles fine through my un-barrelled action. I can have the reamer made. My question is how do I determine what CUP or PSI this thing is capable of? 28,000 psi is listed for a factory round from an internet source. By having very little taper and 35-40 dfegree shoulders, pressure will go down. I am conviced that 28K is a black powder number and smokelss is going to make 40K +. How do I dtermine what pressure it is capable of? Thanks in advance, moodyholler

[Mike D.]

I have not heard of a .35 WCF Ackley Improved cartridge, either. The .35 WCF was always a smokeless cartridge, so there would not be any BP pressure info for it. I am not sure about the 1896 Krag's pressure rating, but the '95 Winchester could handle 50K+.

[bsaride]

Just got my PO Ackley books on saturday!

No mention of a 35 Winchester Improved.

The cartridge that looks to work best is called ".35 Lever Power"
in which cases are made from .303 British or 30/40 Krag (they turn down the
rims, but if starting with a 30/40 I would rebore, rechamber to this round and
make cases from the 30/40. PO Ackley book (Vol I) page 469, page 470 shows
200 gr loads using 3031 for 2370-2600fps

[2ndovc]

A .35 WCF Krag sporter sounds interesting. Don't see any reason for an inproved .35WCF

Loaded right the .35WCF is an accurate powerful cartridge. Brass is difficult to find but can be made from 30-40 as stated above. I bought a few boxes of bertram brass after I got this '95. It was a gift from my Dad. He'd forgotten my birthday. I think he more than made up for it



jb

[BenT]

I can't find any reference to the 35 win AI . There is the 35-348 .

How's your health doing?

[Gun Smith]

35 Winchester brass is best made from 405 Winchester brass. Trim to 2.42" and full length resize. The main body dimensions are basically identical to each other. CH die company makes loading dies for this caliber. 303 and 30-40 brass is .010 to .020" shorter, and body dimensions are slightly smaller, so brass will balloon a bit, but should work OK.

[Leverluver]

When I think AI, I think of how to "hop up" something. I don't think the Krag action is a good vehicle for hopping. I watched a friend convert a Krag to 405 Win and he had to remove a LOT of metal in the magazine port area to get them to work. If you AI the 35 case, you will be as wide as the 405 and will have the same issues. Remember the whole Krag feeding system was designed for the 30-40 case taper. Very little (if any) metal work will be required to convert to the standard 35 Win. It is a nicely tapered case meant to feed slicker than goose poop. The 35 Win is a great close in game smacker. I'd leave the case design alone. You will have less problems.

[Ben_Rumson]

If it's a U.S. Krag I wouldn't exceed pressure levels of factory 30-40 Krag.. A single locking lug ... I'm not wanting to hod rod that one

[tman]

the 35 wcf, 356wcf, and 348 wcf are, for all practical purposes, ballistic triplets. good for all n.a game out to moderate ranges. just me, but i don't see it being improved in any way, that would make it a step up in a bigger leauge as far as range and knockdown? power. just my 2 cents worth.

[Kansas Ed]

35 Winchester brass is best made from 405 Winchester brass. Trim to 2.42" and full length resize. The main body dimensions are basically identical to each other. CH die company makes loading dies for this caliber. 303 and 30-40 brass is .010 to .020" shorter, and body dimensions are slightly smaller, so brass will balloon a bit, but should work OK.

You can try, but the headspace is different in the two cartridges. If your rifle can chamber can take the .405 brass, it means you have excessive headspace by at least .012. This works out nicely if you have headspace issues, meaning just reform and trim the .405 brass, but if you have tight-to-standard headspace, you will need to thin the rims, preferably from the front side which is best done in a lathe.

BTW, I shoot a .35 WCF also, and for the life of me I don't know why you would feel the need to hot rod it....it will handle just about any game in North America out to more than practical ranges. I might pass on the big browns with it, but nothing else would I feel undergunned out to 200 if I could shoot that distance accurately. Go with the std version, I promise you won't be disappointed.

Ed

[Hobie]

Back to the basic concept. An AI case will give you greater capacity and allow you to produce a little more gas and velocity at the same pressures. Moving the pressures up to about 35K (it is a Krag and OLD) will give you just a bit more. It should also straighten out the case and reduce, slightly, breech thrust. The thing is that the Krag when new was still a 40K gun. When the govt tried to up velocities a bit and the pressures went up just a couple thousand PSI they had problems and had to return to the old load. I would think a modern Leverpower would be neat in a Marlin or Ruger #1 but unless you simply must get an old Krag to shoot without a new barrel (having to rebore), I just don't think it is practical. Of course, practical doesn't mean much to some of us, including me.

[KWK]

There's not much more case capacity to be gained in the .35 WCF. It has a very short neck as it is, and there's not much body taper.

As for pressures, the SAAMI limit is 40,000 CUP for the Krag; and in Europe, the CIP limit is similar. The CIP also has a standard of 47,000 psi.

Some of the early Krag ammo was certainly hotter than modern SAAMI limits. I wouldn't go above the SAAMI & CIP limits, and I'd back off some for good measure.

The CIP rates the .35 WCF at nearly the same pressure as the Krag. Net case capacity for the .35 WCF is nearly identical to the .35 Whelen. Starting loads for the Whelen in the 47th Lyman would be a good approximation for max .35 WCF loads.

[blackhawk44]

Find a copy of Ken Waters' Pet Loads. He developed .35 loads using a rebored Miroku 1895. With a Krag, you would certainly have to back off those loads, but at least you have reasonably recent data.

[marlinman93]

On page 205 Vol. II of PO Ackley's books he mentions a cartridge made from the .444 Marlin necked down to .35 caliber, which uses a 200 gr. bullet with 48 Gr. of 4320, for 2400 fps. "This is simply the new .444 Marlin necked down to .35 to produce a cartridge similar to the old .35 Winchester, which was always a good big game cartridge for short and medium range."

[Fungus Sam]

Lots of excellent replies here. I happen to have a Winchester M1895 in .35 WCF 'improved'. I won't call it Ackley improved because it doesn't have the 40 degree shoulder, but the case body is blown out 0.012 at the shoulder. This gives it very little taper. The rifle was advertised as a .35, and when I bought it , it came with custom made dies and some ammo. I have no idea why someone in the past reamed the chamber this way and then had custom dies made to fit. It serial numbers to 1920 and the action is in excellent condition. Finding brass is a b..... I formed cases from 30-40 Krag, but they end up too short. The comment about using .405 brass is correct with reference to headspacing. Bertram brass seems to function OK; I've been able to scrouge some old original cases of various headstamps, but it is usually very brittle. I have loaded only 250 gr. bullets, to 2200-2300 fps, using Varget ( I like Varget). I'm not prone to hotrod my guns anyway. Just recently I installed a Providence Tool Co reproduction receiver sight and now have the rifle sighted in for hunting. Perhaps some feral piggies are in its future.