Lyman 66 or a Williams 5D? Which should I get for my 30-30?

[KirkD]

I just noticed a few days ago that my 30-30 is factory drilled and tapped for a receiver sight. I tried out a Lyman 66 last Saturday and it was the cat's meow. Question: Which would you recommend, a Lyman 66 or a Williams 5D? (I assume both fit on the factory drilled holes)

[DavidS]

I have used Lyman receiver sights for years and they have all been good.

[J Miller]

Kirk,

I've got both the Lyman 66A and the Williams FP 94/36 on my Win 94s.
I would strongly suggest that you consider the 66A and FP as basically the same type and quality.
The 5D however is not.
Both the Lyman 66 series and the Williams FP series has the micrometer click adjustments that are secure and easy to adjust. Their settings are consistent and repeatable as well.

The 5D has no click adjustments. You simply loosen the lock screws and slide the parts by guess to adjust them. Then tighten the lock screws. That's fine I guess if you zero your rifle and then never change ammo.

I feel that if you are going to put a quality sight on a quality rifle you need good adjustability. That's the 66A and FP 94/36 in my experience.

Joe

[86er]

I've had 2 different 5D's and broke them both. I have a Lyman 66 that is great and 2 Williams FP's that are good.

[Hobie]

What Joe said. I like the FP best and the FP and 66LA are about the same price.

[OJ]

Personally, I like the Williams FP94/36 - rugged with precise 1/4 MOA click adjustments. Here's mine on my Winchester 94. I remove the aperture and use it as a "ghost ring" sight (even though it's still in here).



Works for me. I use the Williams FP aperture sights on my Winchester 95 , BL22, and 10/22 and am happy with all. Some require a little taller front sight.

[Stopper]

I've had a Williams 5D on my Win '94 Trapper (.357 Mag) for the last two years.

Pros:
1) Fairly cheap
2) Easy to use, just bring a screwdriver to the range
3) It does *not* budge. Now I haven't beat my rifle on a rock or anything, but in two years, I've never had my zero move.
4) It's all weather, doesn't require batteries, and seems to be able to outshoot my buddies red dot on his carbine ('course this one is just for kicks)

Cons:
1) Remember the screwdriver when you change loads
2) no audible clicks (but I find that the markings/etchings on the side/top work fine for me).

I found a set of loads that work for me, and just stick to them. Therefore I've never had much reason to change the zero. Also recall that I'm shooting a .357 Mag rifle, and so I'm generally shooting at 100 yards or less. Overall, I've been very, very happy with my 5D.

- Stopper

[El Chivo]

this is secondhand, but a friend of mine got rid of his lyman for an FP because it became crooked. Apparently there is no support to where the Lyman hangs over the receiver, and it can get bent. The Williams, on the other hand, has something supporting it on top so it is stronger.

I use tang sights myself, but that's what I heard from him.

[Pete44ru]

Besides the above comments, how clean do you like the top of your gun to be ?

The Lyman and the FP-TK(target knob) both have large adjustment knobs - the elevation knob rivaling the aperture housing for attention, and the edge of the windage knob also intruding.

The 5D has less of a profile in those areas, but some - because it uses square-head grub screws (2), one on each side of the aperture, to secure the wingage adjustment.

The regular FP has flush-head screw adjustments. You get a clean profile, but a screwdriver is needed for any adjusting - not necessarily a bad thing, if you have a friend like I do, that fiddles with knobs, etc, immediately he gets anything in his hands for coon-fingering.

BTW - Both the Lyman & the FP/FP-TK have little setscrews, to lock the adjusting knobs after the gun is zeroed.

The only other issue would be material - they're all made of aluminum now - although you may be able to obtain an older, steel Lyman.
The main difference is, when a gun is inadvertantly dropped - steel bends, and can be straightened, aluminum breaks.

[J Miller]

sobenk
this is secondhand, but a friend of mine got rid of his lyman for an FP because it became crooked. Apparently there is no support to where the Lyman hangs over the receiver, and it can get bent. The Williams, on the other hand, has something supporting it on top so it is stronger.

The older Williams FP sights did indeed have a support screw on the aperture bar on the side opposite the mounting base. This feature was discontinued many years ago. The current sights are simply supported by the groves and lock ring on the base.

The Lyman 66 series of sights do not have set screws like the Williams FP sights do. But unless you have a "friend" like Pete44ru this is of no consequence.
The adjusting knobs also do not detract from the sight picture. You just don't see them. The "cluttered appearance" is really just a matter of personal perspective.

Here is a picture showing both the Williams FP on the left and the Lyman 66A on the right, mounted on Mdl 94 Winchesters.

You can see for yourself that the knobs don't look that bad.

For myself, I have the Williams FP on my Winchester 94 TE Trapper 30-30. I have it sighted in for my load of 34.5grs of Win 748 and a 150gr bullet.
I've never needed to change the sight, so it's been locked down for almost 20 years.
I have a Lyman 66A on my USRAC 94 AE Trapper 45 Colt. I have that one roughly sighted in for 9.0grs of Unique under ..... well I really don't remember. I also can't remember when the last time I adjusted the settings.
Although I do not routinely adjust these knobs, I can change the settings at will and then return them to exactly the same place they came from. Something you can't do as well with a 5D.
(NOTE: These guns are the ones in the pic posted above.)

For the future I have at least one Williams FP 94/36 and two Lyman 66 series sights in reserve. As soon as I can have my three remaining lever guns D&T'd I'll be using them.

So; FP, 5D, or 66A, whichever you choose, just remember to bring a screwdriver with you, you'll need it.

Joe

[Old Savage]

Decisions, decisions? The Foolproof is, well, foolproof, but looks a little out of place to me on vintage rifles which this on the edge of. The Lyman looks more period but - personal preference I would say.

[Old Savage]

Hobie, how long has the foolproof been around?

[Hobie]

Old Savage,

I don't know for certain. When the 5D came out it really cost $5.00! I'm guessing 1946 or so due to the aluminum fabrication. AFAIK it has always been made of aluminum ("aircraft" aluminum as I remember it). You'll probably remember that the term "aircraft" was often used to preface items that were marketed as light but strong and durable. There were many such products that came out after WWII to utilize both the expertise developed during the war and the materials newly available so that the production could be utilized.

[JerryB]

Kirk, I have a Foolproof and a 5D and I can't find a thing wrong with either one, just personal preference I reckon. How was your two weeks in the northwoods?

Jerry

[Mike D.]

My personal favorite is the Lyman 56. which is long out of production. My levers include sights from Lyman, Redfield and Williams, but the Lyman 66 is my preference of the new production ones.

[Pepe Ray]

Hobie;
I can confirm the age of the Williams sights as far back as 1962. The impression I got from the gunsmith that installed(D/T) my FP on my Winny, was that the sights were a recent introduction.
Perhaps we should look back in some older Shooters Bibles or Gun Digests.
Pepe Ray

[Hobie]

Hobie;
I can confirm the age of the Williams sights as far back as 1962. The impression I got from the gunsmith that installed(D/T) my FP on my Winny, was that the sights were a recent introduction.
Perhaps we should look back in some older Shooters Bibles or Gun Digests.
Pepe Ray

I should do something, I know it is written somewhere, I just haven't done it yet! The Williams site doesn't say...

[OJ]

I copied this from the Williams web site - sounds like the aluminum alloy they use is pretty strong and knobs are available for the FP sights "if desired". I believe the FP 94/36 was available in 1968 when I got my Winchester 94 but, at age 81, my memory isn't so good any more and I can't remember exactly when I added the FP to it.

"Internal micrometer adjustments have positive internal locks. The FP is strong, rugged, dependable. The alloy used to manufacture this sight has a tensile strength of 85,000 pounds. Yet, the FP is light and compact, weighing only 1-1/2 ounces.

For big game hunting, the FP will outsell all other makes and models of receiver sights put together. Many rifles are now being drilled and tapped at the factory for installation of the FP.

Target knobs are available on all models of the FP receiver sight if desired."

I think it's good we don't all like the same thing - otherwise we'd all be driving Yugos and the lack of competition would price them out of range for most of us.

[KirkD]

Thanks, all, for this feedback.

JerryB, we had a great time up North .... very relaxing and enjoyable. Came back well rested and ready to go.

[J Miller]

I just called Williams and talked with a tech who has been there 30 years.
He said that there is no immediately available documentation to go by, but as far as he knows the 5D was introduced in the late 40s for either Win 94, or the 70. The FP series followed in the early 50's.
He also said these sights were never made in steel, only aluminum.

So the Williams sights are period correct at least back to the late 40s.

Joe

[Old Savage]

Thanks Joe, FP period correct to 59 then.

[J Miller]

Yep, now I don't feel so bad about having my 1950 Win 94 D&T'd for a side mount sight.

Joe