.30-30 loads, going back to square one

[Slick13]

I've decided to take my .30-30 back to square one. I've got a new sight on it, have had some trigger work done, and I feel it's time to start over, and see what I get. Rifle is a 1957 Winchester 94 Carbine, to which I've recently added a William's FP. Rifling is in good shape, but there is some pitting in the grooves, and on one of the lands, that I can see towards the muzzle. Even with less than perfect bore I've gotten nice groups out of this rifle in the past.

So, I'm going to start with brand new Winchester brass, trimmed to the same length, primer pockets uniformed, and flash holes deburred.

I have Federal Large Rifle primers on hand, regular and match. Should I just use the regular ones?

Bullets, I've got Hornady and Speer 150 gr, and Hornady, Remington, & Sierra 170 gr.

Suitable .30-30 powders I have on hand with data for both bullet weights: Reloders 7 & 15, W760, BL-C(2), Varget, H4895, and IMR3031.

Plan is to load up three rounds for each bullet, using the same powder in each, starting at that powder's start load. Example, the two 150 gr. bullets would start with 31 gr. of Varget, and all three of the 170 gr. bullets would start with 29.5 gr. of Varget.

I would shoot three shots for group over a chronograph, clean the gun, then shoot the next load, and repeat.

So, is my plan sound? What powder should I start with? I'm looking at 3031, BL-C(2), or Varget. How long should I stick with bullet as I increase powder charge before I say "Okay, this is NOT the bullet for this gun"?

Thanks,

~Michael

[Hobie]

You can play with loads all you want but just use the non-magnum large rifle primers, 29-30 gr. IMR-3031 and the Remington or Sierra 170 gr. bullets. Works a treat in all my .30-30s.

[jlchucker]

What Hobie said. In all probability you'll settle on around 29-30 grains of 3031 like a huge amount of 30-30 shooters do. It's hard to beat around 32 grains of 748 as well. I myself have never used 760 in my 30-30's. Reloder 7 gives good velocities. Don't know about the rest of your powders. Good luck.

[86er]

I'd be more interested in shooting groups for best accuracy than shooting them over the chrono.

[Slick13]

I'd be more interested in shooting groups for best accuracy than shooting them over the chrono.

Will be shooting for accuracy, and will be check velocity at the same time.

Well, looks like I'll start with 3031.

~Michael

[Slick13]

I'd be more interested in shooting groups for best accuracy than shooting them over the chrono.

Will be shooting for accuracy, and will be check velocity at the same time.

Well, looks like I'll start with 3031.

~Michael

Well, 3031 under the 170 gr. Remington Core Lokt has been poor at best. 3031 under the 170 gr. Hornady was a little better. 150 gr. Hornady over Reloder 7 opened my eyes today, four out of five shots into 3/4" at 50 yards. The fourth shot was thrown well outta the group thanks to me. I know the Speer 150 gr shoots well in this gun, will try it with Reloder 7 also.

~Michael

[J Miller]

I've tried the IMR 3031 and 4895 with decent results. Win 760 is a bit too slow. BL-C(2) and Varget are good powders from what I've read. Although I've not used them.

My best most consistent load for all the 30-30s I've owned has been the following:
Cases: preferably Winchester, but sometimes whatever was handy
Primers: usually Winchester LR, but I've also used Fed, Rem, and CCI with decent results
Powder: Winchester 748, 34.5grs. This is straight from the Winchester loading book
Bullet: Speer, Hornady, Sierra, and now Winchester 150gr. The bullets only seem to matter to individual rifles. It doesn't seem to matter to the overall consistency of the load.

This load is as consistent as it gets. It is my go to load and I've never been disappointed in it.

Joe

[Hobie]

I'd be more interested in shooting groups for best accuracy than shooting them over the chrono.

Will be shooting for accuracy, and will be check velocity at the same time.

Well, looks like I'll start with 3031.

~Michael

Well, 3031 under the 170 gr. Remington Core Lokt has been poor at best. 3031 under the 170 gr. Hornady was a little better. 150 gr. Hornady over Reloder 7 opened my eyes today, four out of five shots into 3/4" at 50 yards. The fourth shot was thrown well outta the group thanks to me. I know the Speer 150 gr shoots well in this gun, will try it with Reloder 7 also.

~Michael

That is interesting. IMR 3031 has never failed to produce 1.5-2" groups at 100 yards for me. I've got 3 .30-30s right now that all shoot into 1.5" or a little less with the same load of 30 gr. IMR 3031 under just about any 170 gr. ".30-30" bullet bit it Hornady, Speer, Remington, Winchester PP or ST, or Sierra (.307" or .308"). I full-length resize all cases and use CCI 200 primers.

[Bigahh]

Just a word of caution if you use the 170 grain Hornadys. 28.5 grains of 3031 is a max load for a couple of my Winchesters. The Hornady manual lists that same load as a max. Some guys have no problem, but My rifles were starting to show pressure signs with 29 grains.

[Slick13]

Just a word of caution if you use the 170 grain Hornadys. 28.5 grains of 3031 is a max load for a couple of my Winchesters. The Hornady manual lists that same load as a max. Some guys have no problem, but My rifles were starting to show pressure signs with 29 grains.

I started with 28.7 grains of 3031 under the 170 gr. Rem and saw no signs of pressure, same at 29.5 (over the max listed on Hodgdon's website). Chrono is out of commission, but from the POI I'm assuming velocities were low. Same with 29 gr. under the 170 Hornady, primers looked fine and from the POI I assume velocites were low (1950 to 2000 fps).

Sierra 170 gr has shot well outta this gun, so I can't rule out 170 gr. bullets completely. Don't know if the gun doesn't like 3031 or just doesn't like the 170 gr. Rem and Hornady. It certainly seems to like 150 gr bullets (which BTW, have an longer OAL, and may be part of the reason they seem to shoot better).

~Michael

[Hobie]

Every gun is different. That's one thing for sure. They will usually have preferences. Mine have been easy. I appreciate that and take them out now and again and talk nice to them. Maybe that helps.

[Both94sPlus]

My 30-30s have all been very user-friendly in terms of practical accuracy. By "practical accuracy" I'm talking 2.5"-3.0" five-shot groups at 150 yards with just about any 150 or 170 grain bullet, jacketed or cast. More important--the first shot from a cold/clean bore goes within this group. In this day of 0.5 MOA deer rifles, a 3" group sounds like a buckshot pattern, but 150 yards is about as far as I want to go with a 30-30 on deer, and that 3" group is still only 1.5" of radial distribution. If you do your part, the bullet will do the right thing. One of the fine hidden benefits of the 30-30's sedate ballistics is the great controlled expansion possible with inexpensive conventional cup-and-core rifle bullets.

I space out my group shots about 2 minutes apart. Rapid-fire can cause bullets to walk, and after your load is established and a sight setting achieved it is good to run a few 5-shot groups rapid-fire to see about dispersion as the barrel heats up. This is quite variable from rifle to rifle.

The only "trick" I employ is to assure that all cases are trimmed to equal length prior to bullet seating. Even roll crimp characteristics result from this equal case length using conventional crimp shoulders in most seater dies. I use WW-748, WC-846, IMR-3031, and IMR-4895 in my jacketed 30-30 loading. The first two powders (sphericals) give about 75-100 FPS more velocity at safe pressures than do the IMR "stick" powders, and meter more easily--but I can't see a bit of accuracy advantage with any of them. The deer and coyotes can't tell a difference, either.

[Old Savage]

This is quite interesting that a couple of fellows get the best groups in their 30-30s with a certain load which doesn't work well in another fellows rifles. What explains this???

[Hobie]

This is quite interesting that a couple of fellows get the best groups in their 30-30s with a certain load which doesn't work well in another fellows rifles. What explains this???

They are different guns.

Different guns have cumulative differences in tolerances, even guns with sequential serials. Those differences affect breaching, barrel vibrations, bore dimensions, stock harmonics, and so forth. All those things react differently to the differences in powder burn rates, bullet configuration/dimensions, even to the primer/cartridge case absorbtion of shock from the firing pin/hammer strike. I sometimes think it is more remarkable if several guns do well with the same load.

[Slick13]

I sometimes think it is more remarkable if several guns do well with the same load.

What I find remarkable is that Winchester, Remington and Federal can produce millions of rounds of ammo, that most guns can shoot "good enough" for the average hunter. My .30-30 didn't like my reloads with the 170 gr. Core Lokt, but it shoots Remington factory ammo well enough.

~Michael

[AmBraCol]

This is quite interesting that a couple of fellows get the best groups in their 30-30s with a certain load which doesn't work well in another fellows rifles. What explains this???

Lots of variables. From different shooters to different techniques to different rifles to different primers to different lots of powder to different lots of bullets to .... you get the drift. It's sorting through all the variables to find what works with YOUR rifle in YOUR hands that makes our hobby such a blast. I've never had the time to shoot my '94 enough to know what it's best load is - but my grandpa was sure that rifle couldn't be zeroed and yet Mic McPherson was chipping away at the "banana rock" (585 yards distant) with my 170 gr handloads back in '06. I later filled all my tags with the same rifle and load, where as I'd not been able to keep all shots on a pie plate at 25 yards 8 years prior. ??? In my case I suspect that tightening the nut that holds the rifle makes the difference since the same load that wouldn't hit a pie plate at 25 yards would chip away at the ol' rock at 585 yards 8 years later - in the hands of another shooter. Watching Mic do that shooting gave me confidence in the rifle's ability to do the job and resulted in me taking it hunting that fall and filling the freezer. Same load, same rifle, same powder, same bullets, same primers - groups shot 8 years apart. The difference was taking time to get serious about shooting that rifle at game taking distances and concentrating on the basics.

[Old Savage]

Hobie - I see that different rifles will do better with one load than another but in this caliber it seems more common for someone to state that a certain load works better in all their rifles. And a few guys have stated something like that over time here. I am wondering if the load works better with the cumulatives of their loading technique: crimp, trim, OAL, etc.

I could state that I personally have not in this caliber been able to out do the best factory ammo of about 3/4" at 100 or actually get better than about 1 1/2" for even a single group so am certainly not knowledgeable in the variables here. And that is in about 500 rds. I have done much better with any of the bottle necks I use.

[KirkD]

Slick, I was a little concerned that you were only shooting 3-shot groups to test a load for accuracy. In my opinion, 5 is minimum. I will often have 5 shot groups that consistently have 4 shots in less than 2" and then a fifth one that widens the group to 3". If I really want to test a load for accuracy, I will very carefully fire a 10-shot group. A sampling of that size will really tell the story.

As for why the same load does not always work the same in different guns, in my opinion, for the Model 94, barrel harmonics are the biggest factor, assuming the actual cartridges have been properly loaded, seated, and crimped.

[KirkD]

duplicate post removed

[Slick13]

Slick, I was a little concerned that you were only shooting 3-shot groups to test a load for accuracy. In my opinion, 5 is minimum.

I've had too many thing going on and haven't had a chance to approach things as I had originally intended, so I took one bullet, one powder, and went from there, shooting groups of five.

Here's my five shot group from yesterday. Something didn't feel right when I got into position for the fourth shot and pulled it about 3" away from the other shots.



Load is Win Brass, Fed LR, Hornady 150 Gr. RN, 28 gr. of RL7, cartridge OAL 2.544".

~Michael

[KirkD]

By gum! 3/4" 4-shot group! Are you using a scope by any chance?

[Slick13]

By gum! 3/4" 4-shot group! Are you using a scope by any chance?

William's FP and the factory front, BUT I was only at 50 yards. This Saturday I plan on taking that same load back to the range and seeing what I can do at 100.

~Michael