PRICE CHECK - Colt SAA

[jfwlb]

I know there are some big fans of the Colt SAA on this board, so I thought I would ask here first.

I just found a Colt SAA built in 1883 for sale.

The seller says it was converted in the "20's/30's" by Colt to .38spc. What would be a good price for something like this?

Also, what documentation should I ask for as far as the conversion to the different caliber? How would I tell if it was done by Colt or not if the seller has no documentation?

It looked to be in fairly good shape, with some wear to the finish at the muzzle and most of the cylinder. Brown wood plain grips with no Colt emblem.

On the left side of the barrel it is marked "COLT SINGLE ACTION ARMY 38 SPECIAL, and there are three patent dates on the left side of the frame, under the cylinder, but I can't make out the actual dates. On the right side of the barrel it is marked "COLT'S MFG CO", and I think, "HARTSFORD CT, USA".

On the bottom of the frame is the serial # which is 977xx, placed twice, once above and once below the screw in front of the trigger guard.

I hope I have been descriptive enough for a ballpark value, but if not I can post pictures.

Thanks in advance everybody,
John

The seller also noted that it has a "black powder frame"

[Ysabel Kid]

Post pictures! Post pictures!

Honestly, this is more than just a case of "lever-pornitis" or, in this case, "gun-pornitis" - pictures will help with the evaluation.

[jfwlb]

Ok, People, just 'cause the Kid requested it, here are the photos









Please don't try to horn in on my sale. I know that most, if not all Paco members will honor this sale, but the lurkers might not be as honorable. Not trying to make any disparaging remarks, but I just don't know.

The seller wants $1600.00 for this piece. I think it is in the ballpark but I am unsure since I am in the people's republic and not the Great Mid West

Thanks,
John.

[cubrock]

I'm no expert, but here goes.

As far as documentation, without a factory letter stating the conversion is factory, then the factory conversion story is just that - a story. Anyone could have converted that gun any time in the last 75 or 100 years. It could have been converted yesterday, as the conversion simply involved switching out the barrel and cylinder (or reboring depending on the original caliber). My guess is that it has a 2nd Generation .38 Special barrel on it, as there were very few 1st Gen guns made in .38 Special.

If it is in good shape mechanically with a good bore and cylinders, then I guess you just have to decide if you want an antique shooter .38 Special and what you want to pay for it. It looks like a nice gun, but I've seen similar conversions go for less money (not in the PRK, though).

Just my 2 pence.

[Gun Smith]

I would guess that it is a fairly recent non-factory conversion. I did many of these in the late 50's and early 60's. The gun appears to have poorly fitted wood grips. It does appear from your description that it is a matching number gun. That does add to the value. A Colt letter is the best way to determine if it was a factory job. For a gun with that much finish, but unreadable dates, my guess is it's been refinished at some point. My estimate - $1200.00.

[Lefty Dude]

Just remember it is a black powder frame, It should only digest low velocity target smokless loads. You do not know the history of the barrel or cylinder. It will cost $150.00 to get a letter from Colt, that would tell you if Colt did the overhaul sometime past.

[Hobie]

I just want to remind everyone buy the gun, NOT the story... Lacking documentation, stories are just sales fluff.

[Ysabel Kid]

I just want to remind everyone buy the gun, NOT the story... Lacking documentation, stories are just sales fluff.

Hobie nailed it. Being in sales (not gun-related, unfortunately), we ALL use "fluff"...

[Hobie]

I just want to remind everyone buy the gun, NOT the story... Lacking documentation, stories are just sales fluff.

Hobie nailed it. Being in sales (not gun-related, unfortunately), we ALL use "fluff"...

I try hard not to do it but I do tell the stories, just add a caveat at the end. The stories sell a lot of stuff.

[Ysabel Kid]

I just want to remind everyone buy the gun, NOT the story... Lacking documentation, stories are just sales fluff.

Hobie nailed it. Being in sales (not gun-related, unfortunately), we ALL use "fluff"...

I try hard not to do it but I do tell the stories, just add a caveat at the end. The stories sell a lot of stuff.

I don't think a lot of people outright LIE, but we repeat what we've been told or heard. Oft-repeated stories or sales claims take on their own legitimacy - even if never checked. Plus, a "seller" can say the exact same thing as a non-sales type person factually, but with enough "fluff" to convey a much nicer picture/story etc.

You know what the Irish definition of "tact" is? The ability to tell a man to go to hell and make him look forward to the journey. The salesman's creed!

[cubrock]

I would guess that it is a fairly recent non-factory conversion. I did many of these in the late 50's and early 60's. The gun appears to have poorly fitted wood grips. It does appear from your description that it is a matching number gun. That does add to the value. A Colt letter is the best way to determine if it was a factory job. For a gun with that much finish, but unreadable dates, my guess is it's been refinished at some point. My estimate - $1200.00.

I think the last one I saw sell that was like this (antique frame converted to .38 Special) did sell for $1200. Also saw one go for $895. I was VERY tempted by that one. If it is a factory conversion, I would think it is well worth $1600 - maybe even more. If not, then I agree with Gun Smith.

[rjohns94]

I happened to have owned that pistol and just sold it recently
the conversion was not done at the factory but was done by an armorer for a police dept.

I just sold it for 1000$

[kimwcook]

If you want the piece, buy it. It's a first gen. and most of them are well above the price range your talking about. But I wouldn't buy it as something to put in the safe and wait for it to appreciate, I'd shoot it as much as I could.

[klhill]

As Gun Smith said those barrels were available from Colt in the late '50's and early 60's.I think there were marked on the right side of the barrel rather than the top to distinguish them from factory installed parts.As a shooter I think the value is in the $1000 to $1300 range depending on how good the frame markings are and if it has the original 1880's hammer.If you want a shooter you might be better off with a 2nd or 3rd generation Colt for similar or less money.To some the real value would be in the frame to restore it back to an original caliber (44WCF or 45 Colt).The early Colts have gotten so valuable that it can be worthwhile to spend the $2000-$3000+ on restoration. The best smiths can now create a near factory perfect duplicate with new markings, barrel, cylinder etc.

[Old Savage]

I think Hobie is right on - with a Colt you are largely buying romance. I have one by the way and have had about 10. 9 left for other for other romances.

[Hobie]

I happened to have owned that pistol and just sold it recently
the conversion was not done at the factory but was done by an armorer for a police dept.

I just sold it for 1000$

I thought it looked familiar. I think that tells the tale.

[jfwlb]

rjohns94; Thank You! I knew that this was the place to go!

And thanks to all the posters in this thread. I really believe that this forum is the best one I've come across for the wealth and depth of knowledge in so many different areas! It truly amazes me what I find in this forum on a daily basis.

Again, thanks to all,
John

[rjohns94]

the grips were factory, have just shrunk a bit with age. was originally a 44-40, so marked on the frame. was carried as a cop gun in the 20's. I took it apart and got the grit out, cleaned it up and oiled. all parts were original. I do believe the conversion was more recent then the 20's. Nice pistol, excellent feel. I would shoot the stuff out of it and not wait for appreciation. good luck.

[okdee]

I have bought n sold a couple of 1st gens that were retooled into the 38Special caliber. They were shooters and that is all. I would not pay more then
$1000. Wave $1000 cash in his face and see what happens. You will be hard pressed to resell it for that amount. I know a gunsmith that would give $1000 just for the blackpowder frame alone. He would probably send off for the Colt letter giving the correct caliber/finish/grips and length of barrel. Then he would put to back to its original condition. He loves to do that.
Good luck making your decision. As long as your happy, you cannt be wrong!

Oklahoma Dee

[Gun Smith]

Hey okdee, I was going to mention that. I just don't like the idea of putting a correct barrel and cylinder on a 1st. It then appears as an original and may get sold as such. But to me it's a still a made up gun. But I'm sure there are a lot of them out there due to the value of originals. To me it's the same as putting a fuel injection unit on a '57 corvette because there is no way the verify it as original. Then selling it for double what it is worth.

[Mike D.]

At the very least, the barrel, cylinder and firing pin have been replaced with second generation parts. As is, it is a parts gun at best and not valued at over a thousand bucks, if that. I don't for a minute buy the Colt conversion story.

[okdee]

Hello Gun Smith and Mike D - -

I agree with you both.

Gun Smith - The person I was referring to, does not go after the dollars side of it. He just simply loves to restore Rugers and Colts back to the original package. Should he sell one or two, he makes it very well know that they are
restorations and hence, do not carry the heavy sticker price of an unaltered original.

Oklahoma Dee

[mike454]

grip frame to frame fittting looks suspect also.